Where in the Quaran does it say that music is forbidden? And the prophet himself listened to music. Just because they didnt have guitars back then at that time and they only got to hear the daaf makes all other musical instruments haram? If so, then the daaf should be banned as well!
I am a strong believer in Islam but in my opinion, this "music is haram" motion is done by does mullahs who cant stand "noise" in their ears.
I mean, 70% of the entire world population listens to music, are you saying they are all sinning?
And if your going to come here and tell me that Music really is haram, then PLEASE, do yourself a favor, and DONT be a hypocrite. I will ONLY take this answer from a person who can PROMISE me that he / she never watched TV, never watched a movie, and NEVER listened to a song in his / her life because to be honest, even all the NON western channels have music in it (i.e the ads and the shows).
Fine, maybe music wont allow me to spend my time doing more productive things like reading the Quaran, but cant I listen to music while doing my homework or something?
I accepted all other things said in Islam with a smile, but this "music is haram" and "you can have sex with your slaves without marrying" thing are the only two things that I cant stand for. How can such a thing be even allowed?
I mean, doesnt this contradict everything Islam has taught us? I mean, if you have a wife away to shop, and in the meantime, if you go have sex with your slave without your wife's consent, wont something inside of you tell you that you have sinned? I have a theory that ANYTHING that "feels wrong" IS wrong.. Killing someone, beating something, swearing, masturbating, having sex without marriage, all these things, when your about to perform it, feels wrong to you so obviously, Allah swt has given us the gift of judgment to decide.
So HOW ON EARTH can sex with slaves be allowed?
And please, dont give me an answer like "We have limited knowledge so there must be a reason behind it" because this isnt why I asked.
hmm, I was kinda mad when I posted this so im sorry if I seem like an anti religion type of guy, but I believe that im not.. Its just the last matter I talked about really disturbs me as it gives me a low opinion of this part of Islam and while the music thing generally just upset me because more than billions of people worldwide listen to music.. are they ALL sinning?? Who's going to go to heaven then?
I mean, if guitars and such are banned, so should the daaf be banned. If the *f word* is considered a bad word, so should the *s word* be considered one too.
And well, it says that "music" is haram because it wastes our time and doesnt allow us to be more productive like reading the Quaran right? Then what about music with only vocals and daaf? Doesnt that ALSO "waste" our time? We should ban music all together then..
and even if you ACTUALLY believe that music is haram because of this reason, cant I even listen to it while im sitting in a plane having a 12 hours flight ahead of me with NOTHING all to do?
... if you have a wife away to shop, and in the meantime, if you go have sex with your slave
I guess , you are confusing maid servants with war slaves . Today's paid servants and war slaves -- they are not same .
About music , there is a thread already in the forum . May be , u should read all the answers there ; So that we don't have to post same answers again .
Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God .....holy Quran, chapter Women , 4: 172
Forget about now.. even if we were all living a thousand years back, wouldnt it feel wrong to get into bed with your "right hand possession" or "war slave" while your wife is away?
How can this be justified? It contradicts EVERYTHING I thought Islam tried to teach us.. You cant be a good man if you do such a thing. NEVER.
I mean, you guys can reply saying that
"its your choice and if it feels wrong to you, then you dont have to do it"
But hey, shaking hands with girls and hugging girls DONT feel wrong to me, AT ALL, but its still now allowed so I dont do it.. if THIS is wrong, how can having sex with your slaves NOT be wrong in any shape or form?
just thought id avoid lying, I said that by mistake.. I most of the time chose to ignore the "no contact with girls" thing most of the time as long as that girl is a good friend of mine.. but I chose to stay away from any kind of intimacies.. just thought id let you know :/
music is not forbidden, some scholars forbid it though.
war slaves and the rest, we don't live at that time, hence we can't judge them, not to mention the laws governing slavery etc are not applied nowadays given the world wide abolishing of slavery.
your argument is weak though, why focus on the right to bed only? slavery itself is flowers and sunshine and That is the only thing wrong with it?
a slave who bears child/ren is given the status of mother of children "Umm Walad", and is not so different from another wife in that regard.
you say: "wouldnt it feel wrong to get into bed with your "right hand possession" or "war slave" while your wife is away?"
firstly no need to do it while your wife is with her parents, they usually were kept in separate houses anyway, and this is a criticism of polygamy in general, so I'm not going to waste my breath on it.
bro, the actions of the people are not an evidence in the Shari'ah for its permissibility or impressibility. Musical instruments are prohibited in Islam - you may find some odd opinions by some contemporary scholars flying around but these odd opinions has no basis in Islam. You may refer to this
As far the permissibility of for men to engage in physical intimacy with their female POW (prisoners of war) aka slaves, then that has been permitted by Allah. This has many benefits and discussed numerous times before on this board, please do a search.
The Shari'ah is not based on our whims/desires and limited understanding; it is based on the orders of Allah - the Creator Who knows what is best for His creation. We enjoy whatever Allah has made permissible for us and avoid, to best of our ability, whatever Allah has prohibited for us.
format_quote Originally Posted by ChocCi
But hey, shaking hands with girls and hugging girls DONT feel wrong to me
subhaanAllah ya akhee, this is a very dangerous statement - it could lead one to out of Islam. If this is the case then you have no imaan! Refer to the statement of Allah's Messenger (sal-allahu alayhi wa sallam):
The Messenger of Allah (sal-allahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said: “Whoever of you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand [by taking action against it], and if he cannot, then with his tongue [by speaking out against it], and if he cannot, then with his heart [by feeling that it is wrong], and this is the weakest of faith” (Reported by Muslim, no. 70)
How can you not feel anything wrong when this violates the rights of Allah, Who created you and gave you everything which you have!? Here you are, complaining about how enjoying your female slave behind your wife's back without her consent feels somehow wrong/incorrect (like violating your wife's rights) but then you turn you back and become blind when the rights of Allah are being violated and you fell no remorse or some kind of pain in your heart.
format_quote Originally Posted by ChocCi
if THIS is wrong, how can having sex with your slaves NOT be wrong in any shape or form?
Allah has made one permissible for the believers and prohibited the other. Is that not enough for you!? Why should it be wrong? The female slave is the property of her master and just like she has rights on him likewise the master has rights on her. The free women are not your property and they do not have any rights due to you or vice versa. Therefore, you have to marry them in order to invoke the laws of rights.
If you want to read further about the rights of slaves, you may refer to:
bro, do not want to start another argument with you, but you need to stop speaking without knowledge and following and promoting these odd opinions. The Salaf used to say when people start collecting/following odd opinions then the time will come when they will have no religion left:
Imam Al-Awza’i (rahimahullah) said: “He who traces the strange opinions of the scholars is out of Islam. You would find a scholar with a lot of knowledge and value, and also with a pitfall. So if a person was to collect the pitfalls of all the scholars and form a new Madhab, then what kind of ‘Ilm would you have?’”
Abu Huraira relates that Allah's Messenger (صلى الله عليه وسلم) said: "there will be a group of people in the end of the days who will bring you views that neither you or your forefathers every heard of. So be warned and let them be warned. Allow them not to misguide you and cause Fitna (i.e. in your hearts)" [Sahih Muslim: 15]
Abu Huraira narrated the prophet (صلى الله عليه و سلم ) said: "In the end of the time there will be liars and fabricators who will report tales and stories that neither you or your fathers have ever heard . Be cautious of those so that they do not misguide you or tempt you" [Saheeh Ibn Habban: 6766]
and Allah knows best
Last edited by MSalman; 09-17-2009 at 04:23 PM.
Reason: forgot to add the hadith
عن تميم بن أوس الداري أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم: قال الدين النصيحة ثلاثا قلنا لمن يا رسول الله قال لله ولكتابه ولرسوله ولأئمة المسلمين وعامتهم - رواه مسلم
Whilst I will not even try to talk about the slave issue, the music issue is something that I too have long struggled with, due to my passion for playing guitar since I was young, and my love of music. So I totally understand where you're coming from. As far as I am aware - and I must emphasise that I am not a scholar on this - the key evidence against music is as follows:
Sahih al-Buhkari, Volume 7, Book 69, Number 494v:
Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari:
that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."
Also “But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales, without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a humiliating Penalty.” The Qur'an, 31:6.
The word used for musical instruments is ma'azif, of which the definition is not by itself clear. Due to the fact that the Prophet (saws) allowed the use of the daff (tambourine) during Eid and at weddings, it is believed that the word ma'azif applies to all musical instruments barring the tambourine. In the ayah 31:6, it is agreed by most scholars that 'idle tales/talks' refers to singing.
The evidence that the Propet (saws) allowed the daff during certain events is in Sahih Bukhari, 2:15:103 and 5:59:336, as well as other sahih ahadith.
Of course there are many Muslim artists who use other instruments such as guitars, pianos, keyboards, etc. Yusuf Islam (Cat Stevens), Outlandish, Dhaffer Youssef, Dawood Warnsby, and several others. Their messages are of course far from 'idle talks' and I would say inspiring dawah in many cases, but you can't get around the fact that yes, they use musical instruments.
If you want to read some intelligent defenses of musical instruments in Islam I would check out Yusuf Islam's homepage as well as the following link: http://www.mynaraps.com/music.htm. I would not be able to 100 per cent guarantee the facts of this article - particularly where it is said Ghazali condoned music in his Ihya Ulum Al-Din. However just to try and show you that this not as black and white issue as people make it sound.
''Some Muslims believe that all music is disapproved of or even forbidden in Islam, and some ban all instruments except drums but will accept songs (nashid) for the unaccompanied voice. Yet there is no ban mentioned in the Qur'an and it therefore falls into the category of that left to the conscience of the individual. Indeed, the Qur'an tells of Allah bestowing the gift of song upon the Prophet-King Dawud (PBUH) and the mountains echoing him and birds praising God along with them (surah 28.79, 34.10)
Islam has a long tradition of music and song used as a medium to express joy in the faith. There is no typical Muslim music, for there are different types from Africa, Uzbekistan, Bosnia, Turkey, Spain and India. Certain types of music are disapproved of as they lead towards the haram:
1. Pop music with sexual lyrics of sexually provocative rhythms
2. Nationalistic and jingoistic music (God save the Queen is acceptable, Rule Britannia is not)
3. Music which is intended to stir up tolerance for haram substances or behaviour.''
Now my personal opinion on music:
Muslims should learn to appreciate the words of the Qur'an. We don't need music when we have the words of the Qur'an.
Besides listening to certain music makes it personally for me difficult to pray. Sometimes the music pops into my head when I pray namaz, read the Qur'an or even when I go to sleep! : P
I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.
The issue here is not about music or slaves - it's deeper than that. There is a difference between humbly questioning with an intent to understand, and questioning in an arrogant way as if the questioner knows better than Allaah or His Messenger.
{Or do you intend to question your Messenger as Moses was questioned before? And whoever exchanges faith for disbelief has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way.}[al-Baqarah; 108]
My advice to the thread starter is to humble yourself and ask to understand and be taught - not arrogantly assume that you are the knowledgeable epitome of what is right and wrong.
{...And if only they had said: "We hear and obey,'' and "Do make us understand,'' it would have been better for them, and more proper...}[an-Nisa; 46]
The first question to you is, do you accept Allaah as your Lord?
“Do not argue with your Lord on behalf of your soul, rather argue with your soul on behalf of your Lord.” - Dhul-Nun
"It is the very pursuit of happiness that thwarts happiness." - Victor Frankl
brother all these points they brought are very weak and show lack of knowledge. Users can refer to many threads on this topic on this board and one can also refer to Is Music Haram? in which I went over the suspicious arguments they bring forward
masha'Allah, your deduction about the Qur'an and affects of listening to music is very accurate
and as brother Malik brought forward a very good point, masha'Allah - the problem is deeper than just finding out about the fiqhi rulings and having questions. These kinds of questions stem from theological perspective and lead to nothing but aqeedah issues and questioning the wisdom of Allah Azz wa Jal, which will eventually take one out of Islam.
عن تميم بن أوس الداري أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم: قال الدين النصيحة ثلاثا قلنا لمن يا رسول الله قال لله ولكتابه ولرسوله ولأئمة المسلمين وعامتهم - رواه مسلم
theres already loads of threads about music! we know that the prophet mohammad pbuh reverted slave women to islam and then MARRIED THEM never fornicated with them before marriage. you are better off asking a scholar because he will be able to give you a detailed answer
((And there are among men, those that purchase idle tales, to mislead (men) from the path of Allah and throw ridicule. For such there will be a humiliating punishment))[1]
The scholars of Tafseer have stated that ‘Idle Talk’ refs to music and singing.
‘Abdullaah ibn Mas’ood ( رضي الله عنه ) swore by Allaah three times about this verse being in reference to Music,
فقال عبد اللّه بن مسعود: الغناء، واللّه الذي لا إله إلا هو، يردها ثلاث مرات
((By Allaah, of who there is nothing worthy of worship except Him, its meaning is Music)) [2] and he said this three times.
This saying has also been narrated from many others amongst the salaf as-Saalih, such as Ibn ‘Abbaas ( رضي الله عنه who said[3],
عن بن عباس في هذه الآية { من يشتري لهو الحديث } قال نزلت في الغناء وأشباهه
((This verse- And those who purchase Idle Talks- was revealed for music, singing and the like.)
The Prophet ( صلى الله عليه وسلم ) is reported to have said,
النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول ليكونن من أمتي أقوام يستحلون الحر والحرير والخمر والمعازف ولينزلن أقوام إلى
جنب علم يروح عليهم بسارحة لهم يأتيهم لحاجة فيقولون ارجع إلينا غدا فيبيتهم الله ويضع العلم ويمسخ آخرين قردة
وخنازير إلى يوم القبامة
((Among my Ummah there will certainly be people who permit zinaa, silk, alcohol and musical instruments…))[4] until the end of the hadeeth.
The Imaams of the four Madhaahib were all in agreement of the prohibition of Musical instruments
At the advent of Islam, like in the rest of the world, slavery was prevalent among Arabs, too. Prisoners of war were turned into slaves by them. When they embraced Islam, they already had such slaves and concubines in their homes. If Islam had ordered them all out, then there would have been chaos in the society. Hence such laws were established by which they were gradually either free or made part of the family.
Whatever laws The Quran contains about slaves, are intended for these slaves who were already present in society. "Ma Malakat Aimanukum" means those who are already in your possession. This is stated in the past tense, meaning something that has been done before. For the future, The Quran completely closed the door on slavery. This is how it was done. For prisoners of war, the order was quite clear. The Quran says that after over powering them: either be gracious to let them go, or take ransom and let them free - (47:4).
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