I haven't been on here for aaages so apologies if this has been discussed!
I have noticed how alot of muslims are celebrating christmas, decorations, tree, turkey, presents etc.. Even though most people who celebrate christmas aren't christians is it right to celebrate christmas?? To be honest i dont even understand the whole concept of christmas.
I text someone saying happy new year as according to islamic calender and i got a 'merry xmas' reply. Most of us have no idea that its the first month of islamic calender. I just pray Allah guides us to the right path and brings us back to our religion!
We HaVe OnE LiFe; iT SoOn wiLL Be PaSt; WhaT wE dO FoR ALLAH iS aLL ThaT wiLL LasT
Dec 25 is a very secular day off of work. It is not a World wide celebration of the birth of Prophet Eesa(as). It is commercialization at it's highest. Christmas(actually Christ's Mass) was a very minor Catholic Mass that a Priest could hold any day he desired, Until Pope Gregory made it mandatory for Dec 25 to attract the pagans in the UK who celebrated Yule on Dec. 25
It did not become a major Christian Celebration until the 1800's when the corporate world saw the potential mega-dollars that could be made with a touch of commercialization.
I love Prophet Eesa(as) deeply, but I hate what has been done in his name to support big business.
Dec 25 is a very secular day off of work. It is not a World wide celebration of the birth of Prophet Eesa(as). It is commercialization at it's highest. Christmas(actually Christ's Mass) was a very minor Catholic Mass that a Priest could hold any day he desired, Until Pope Gregory made it mandatory for Dec 25 to attract the pagans in the UK who celebrated Yule on Dec. 25
It did not become a major Christian Celebration until the 1800's when the corporate world saw the potential mega-dollars that could be made with a touch of commercialization.
I love Prophet Eesa(as) deeply, but I hate what has been done in his name to support big business.
I agree completely and I could not have said it better. Christmas has very little to do with religion nowadays in my humble opinion.
"And hold fast unto Allah, He is your protector, the best to protect and the best to help"
All about presents! Its so annoying cos i have to work extra hours lol i find it funny.. I think i heard in the bible it says putting up trees is disliked and its pagan
We HaVe OnE LiFe; iT SoOn wiLL Be PaSt; WhaT wE dO FoR ALLAH iS aLL ThaT wiLL LasT
Even though Christmas is a pagan celebration, I can't help but feel that celebrating it won't do much harm. I'll be sure to attend church tomorrow, and I'll remember the core values of Christmas- family, fun and Jesus- and what can the harm possibly be in that?
the Christmas tree is a fairly new tradition and did not become common until 1841.
The Christmas Tree: The Christmas tree, which is an evergreen with it's boughs stretched toward heaven, reminds us of the everlasting life that Christ came to bring sinners. The candles or lights on the tree remind us that Jesus is the light of the world.
This surely is what Martin Luther envisioned back in 1535 when he cut and decorated the first Christmas tree for his children. Prince Albert carried the Christmas tree custom from Germany to Windsor Castle in 1841.
When I was a kid in the 1940's, and a Catholic, at least in the Docise of Hartford, the Catholic Churches were forbidden to have one in the Church and we were discouraged from having them in our homes, because of their connection with Martin Luther.
The Dollar bill seems to have become more important than religion to some people.
If people were to be honest and stop calling Christmas a religious holiday, at least they would not be hypocrites that profess religious belief by sinning and calling it celebrating the Birth of Eesa(as).
Dec 25 is a very secular day off of work. It is not a World wide celebration of the birth of Prophet Eesa(as). It is commercialization at it's highest. Christmas(actually Christ's Mass) was a very minor Catholic Mass that a Priest could hold any day he desired, Until Pope Gregory made it mandatory for Dec 25 to attract the pagans in the UK who celebrated Yule on Dec. 25
It did not become a major Christian Celebration until the 1800's when the corporate world saw the potential mega-dollars that could be made with a touch of commercialization.
I love Prophet Eesa(as) deeply, but I hate what has been done in his name to support big business.
I disagree that Christmas was NOT a major Christian celebration until the 1800s. A quick check of the dates of some of the most popular hymns associated with Christmas pretty much proves my point:
1744 -- Come, Thou Long-Expected Jesus
1743 -- O Come, All Ye Faithful
1734 -- Hark! The Herald Angels Sing
1719 -- Joy to the World
1700 -- While Shepherds Watched Their Flocks
18th century -- He Is Born (Il Est Ne)
1642 -- Lift Up Your Heads, Ye Mighty Gates
1641 -- Break Forth, O Beauteous Heavenly Light
17th century -- Sing We Now Of Christmas
17th century -- The First Noel
1599 -- O Morning Star, How Fair and Bright
1582 -- On This Day Earth Shall Ring
1523 -- Savior of the Nations, Come
16th century -- Away in a Manger
16th century -- What Child Is This
15th century -- Lo, How a Rose E'er Blooming
14th century -- Good Christian Men, Rejoice
12th centruy -- The Friendly Beasts
9th century -- O Come, O Come Emmanuel
Now of course there are carols written in the 1800s and later, and there is one rather famous carol from the 1800s, Silent Night (1818), but those who know the story of its origin would hardly equate it with the commercialization of Christmas.
I agree that the turning of Christmas into a secular holiday is a travesty, but I blame that more on Coca Cola than on Christians (not that some of us haven't been complicit in it). And I despise what they did in turning a truly saintly man, good old Bishop Nicholas of Myra, into Santa Claus -- absolutely horric.
But, as far as the rumors that it was a pagan holiday, I suggest that there is a big difference in taking over a pagan date on the calendar and claiming that it is a pagan celebration. What we are celebrating is most definitely not pagan, but a challenge to the pagan world that all of their gods are but fakes and parodies of the one true God who has come into the world and not only made himself known to us in the person of Jesus, but who has come to redeem the world from the fallennes of these pagan celebrations and reconcile it back to God.
Proclaim the good news -- Immanuel -- God is with us!!
Last edited by Grace Seeker; 12-25-2009 at 07:25 AM.
I disagree that Christmas was NOT a major Christian celebration until the 1800s. A quick check of the dates of some of the most popular hymns associated with Christmas pretty much proves my point:
1744 -- Come, Thou Long-Expected Jesus
1743 -- O Come, All Ye Faithful
1734 -- Hark! The Herald Angels Sing
1719 -- Joy to the World
1700 -- While Shepherds Watched Their Flocks
18th century -- He Is Born (Il Est Ne)
1642 -- Lift Up Your Heads, Ye Mighty Gates
1641 -- Break Forth, O Beauteous Heavenly Light
17th century -- Sing We Now Of Christmas
17th century -- The First Noel
1599 -- O Morning Star, How Fair and Bright
1582 -- On This Day Earth Shall Ring
1523 -- Savior of the Nations, Come
16th century -- Away in a Manger
16th century -- What Child Is This
15th century -- Lo, How a Rose E'er Blooming
14th century -- Good Christian Men, Rejoice
12th centruy -- The Friendly Beasts
9th century -- O Come, O Come Emmanuel
Now of course there are carols written in the 1800s and later, and there is one rather famous carol from the 1800s, Silent Night (1818), but those who know the story of its origin would hardly equate it with the commercialization of Christmas.
I agree that the turning of Christmas into a secular holiday is a travesty, but I blame that more on Coca Cola than on Christians (not that some of us haven't been complicit in it). And I despise what they did in turning a truly saintly man, good old Bishop Nicholas of Myra, into Santa Claus -- absolutely horric.
But, as far as the rumors that it was a pagan holiday, I suggest that there is a big difference in taking over a pagan date on the calendar and claiming that it is a pagan celebration. What we are celebrating is most definitely not pagan, but a challenge to the pagan world that all of their gods are but fakes and parodies of the one true God who has come into the world and not only made himself known to us in the person of Jesus, but who has come to redeem the world from the fallennes of these pagan celebrations and reconcile it back to God.
Proclaim the good news -- Immanuel -- God is with us!!
Peace Gene,
You are quite correct about the dates of those Hymns and that does indicate it was an important Holiday to Christians as early as the 8th/9th Centuries. Now to go back and stir up my memory as to what I was being taught as a kid. Then again I was in the Diocese (Just noticed I butchered the spelling in my earlier post) of Hartford and at that time the Diocese was predominatly Polish/Lithuanian/Ukrainian and Letish. when I was a kid I thought every priest's last name ended in either ski or kas. Even in the 1940s more emphasis was placed on Easter and Christmas was more of a prelude to Easter.
So, I will amend my post and Say that Christmas was a minor holiday to some Catholics.
Not sure if I'm going off topic so if I am then forgive me.
One thing that I really don't agree with is how Christmas is slowly integrating into the public schools.
I thought that religion or the teaching of religion wasn't allowed in the public school systems.
Now it seems that they put up decorations and even have gift exchanges in some places.
There's always the handful of children that don't celebrate it in each class or grade and they just kind of have to find something else to do during that time.
I really don't even know how that's justified.
"And hold fast unto Allah, He is your protector, the best to protect and the best to help"
Not sure if I'm going off topic so if I am then forgive me.
One thing that I really don't agree with is how Christmas is slowly integrating into the public schools.
I thought that religion or the teaching of religion wasn't allowed in the public school systems.
Now it seems that they put up decorations and even have gift exchanges in some places.
There's always the handful of children that don't celebrate it in each class or grade and they just kind of have to find something else to do during that time.
I really don't even know how that's justified.
So it bloody well should. Christmas has been in our schools since I was a toddler. At primary school I did plays every year of the 3 wise men, the virgin mary, the birth of Jesus etc. It's not a new thing. At every assembly we were made to pray before lessons.
At Christmas I don't go over the top. I spend alot of time with my family, have Christmas dinner, pull a cracker etc but I dont spend much on gifts. For me the most important part is spending time with my family. My mother is taking my little sisters to church and I'm absolutely sure I'll end up going.
Even though Christmas is a pagan celebration, I can't help but feel that celebrating it won't do much harm. I'll be sure to attend church tomorrow, and I'll remember the core values of Christmas- family, fun and Jesus- and what can the harm possibly be in that?
Do you ever consider that if Jesus (peace be upon him) thought it was ok to indulge in a bit of paganism now and then, he wouldn't have suffered in bringing the divine message which rejected paganism/idolatry. It's when you think there is no harm in being a bit liberal in religion that you deviate from the true teachings - as it has already happened to all previous religions except islam. What's more, I don't think Christians need pagan trends to honour family values, do they? And, I don't see how Jesus would ever like his followers to make their own rules about what is harmless and what is not - especially since (according to Christians) he died upholding the Word of God. May Allah's peace and blessings be upon him.
Not sure if I'm going off topic so if I am then forgive me.
One thing that I really don't agree with is how Christmas is slowly integrating into the public schools.
I thought that religion or the teaching of religion wasn't allowed in the public school systems.
Now it seems that they put up decorations and even have gift exchanges in some places.
There's always the handful of children that don't celebrate it in each class or grade and they just kind of have to find something else to do during that time.
I really don't even know how that's justified.
I'm with you on this, though it is nothing new. 20 years ago, my daughter was forced to participate in a "Christmas" party in Kindergarten where they brought out a man dressed in costume and told all of the little kids it was Santa Claus and then forced them to sit on his knee. Well, we always taught our kids that Christmas had to do with Jesus the Christ, not some pagan fat man. But here the school was telling her that she "had to believe" in Santa, that "everyone believe in Santa" -- that was what she reported to me when she got home, very upset by the experience.
Interesting thing about the local ACLU, I actually called them to see if they would help me get protection for my daughter from this public establishment of a Santa religion and they didn't care "because Santa wasn't real." Does that mean that the ACLU believes that God is real since they do object to anything that talks about God?
The good news is that my daughter wasn't scarred by the experience. And the next year I joined the PTA to make sure that whatever parties the school threw (and I don't object to them throwing various holiday parties) were done with a little more sensitivity.
Christmas is a useless pagan holiday no different than 'st. valentine's day, imposed on folks to rob them of their hard earned money on useless junk from china under the false pretenses of good will and peace toward man of course good will means to bomb others while praising the lawd. And yes in the work place they impose 'secret santas' and other such BS that if you opt out you'll clearly be labeled..
and yes it is slowly creeping into the Muslim world, I have no idea why my cousin for instance would be sending me an xmas card, of course I didn't lash out at him but we let my uncle know that this is unacceptable. I am disgusted by this endless charade .. there is nothing holy about this holiday and I am not quite sure what they are celebrating? they are celebrating that god left the universe behind to be born and suckle?
It is so absurd, made even more absurd by Muslims recognizing it or even taking part of it under duress be it in the work place or whatever.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I'm with you on this, though it is nothing new. 20 years ago, my daughter was forced to participate in a "Christmas" party in Kindergarten where they brought out a man dressed in costume and told all of the little kids it was Santa Claus and then forced them to sit on his knee. Well, we always taught our kids that Christmas had to do with Jesus the Christ, not some pagan fat man. But here the school was telling her that she "had to believe" in Santa, that "everyone believe in Santa" -- that was what she reported to me when she got home, very upset by the experience.
Interesting thing about the local ACLU, I actually called them to see if they would help me get protection for my daughter from this public establishment of a Santa religion and they didn't care "because Santa wasn't real." Does that mean that the ACLU believes that God is real since they do object to anything that talks about God?
The good news is that my daughter wasn't scarred by the experience. And the next year I joined the PTA to make sure that whatever parties the school threw (and I don't object to them throwing various holiday parties) were done with a little more sensitivity.
Wow.. That is a bit over the top to bring Santa to school. I can honestly say I haven't seen that one yet.
I have seen where some schools have a "winter" party and that is very nice in my opinion. There are children who celebrate all different kinds of holidays and for one particular holiday to be acknowledged and theirs not can be confusing and downright hurtful. Little kids are sensitive.
I haven't seen the holidays decorated with "Eid Mubarak" or "Happy Hanukah". I would even think it would be okay to just put up something that says "Happy Holidays"... but just straight "Merry Christmas".. I don't agree with that. Again, just my humble opinion.
"And hold fast unto Allah, He is your protector, the best to protect and the best to help"
So it bloody well should. Christmas has been in our schools since I was a toddler. At primary school I did plays every year of the 3 wise men, the virgin mary, the birth of Jesus etc. It's not a new thing. At every assembly we were made to pray before lessons.
At Christmas I don't go over the top. I spend alot of time with my family, have Christmas dinner, pull a cracker etc but I dont spend much on gifts. For me the most important part is spending time with my family. My mother is taking my little sisters to church and I'm absolutely sure I'll end up going.
In my opinion, it shouldn't.
No religious holidays should be discussed in public schools unless they are prepared to discuss all of them and I don't really think they want to go there. It may have been celebrated for awhile (in your personal experience and others) but that doesn't mean it should.
"And hold fast unto Allah, He is your protector, the best to protect and the best to help"
I haven't seen the holidays decorated with "Eid Mubarak" or "Happy Hanukah". I would even think it would be okay to just put up something that says "Happy Holidays"... but just straight "Merry Christmas".. I don't agree with that. Again, just my humble opinion.
I don't mind decorations that say "Merry Christmas", "Happy Hanukah" or "Eid Mubarak", so I'm not arguing for a generic "Happy Holidays" as the only thing it is acceptable for people to say. But making a 5 year old sit on a strange man's knee and telling her that she "must believe" to participate in the ongoing party, that wouldn't be tolerated any place else in society, but we give Santa a free pass on this at malls (and apparently at some schools as well) every year.
Again, I don't think Santa has anything to do with a genuine celebration of Christmas. It's a cultural phenomena that is a perversion of what Christmas is really celebrating. I think the real Saint Nicholas (Bishop of Myra) would be aghast at what has become commonly done in his name.
Last edited by Grace Seeker; 12-25-2009 at 08:30 PM.
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