I'm getting increasingly fed up of hearing how Muslims in the UK don't do enough to combat extremism, how our silence on extremist matters is deafening and even that by doing nothing we are showing our silent support to extremists.
Now the questions i have are;
1- What can we do about the extremists?
2 - How can we distance ourselves from them?
3 - Will Joe public ever be happy with any of our efforts?
4 - Any other idea on how we can actually change public opinion that the majority of Muslims are normal folk etc etc...
Re: What can we Muslims in the UK do to combat extremism
format_quote Originally Posted by Uthmān
One thing we could do is make sure Friday sermons are actually delivered in English at all mosques in the UK so that young Muslims can relate to them.
A good point. Its frustrating when I go to a Jummah when I am out of town only to find the khutbah being delivered in Urdu or Bengali.
Regardless of if 99% of the audience can understand the language, it is usually the ones that feel left out, and abandoned by all peer groups, who find extremism, whether that be "Islamic" or any other kind so appealing.
Re: What can we Muslims in the UK do to combat extremism
The common perception, right or wrong, is that muslims will side with their "brothers and sisters" (other muslims) over non-muslims, even when they are wrong. Tribalism is an ugly thing and it is perceived in Islam.
Whether this actually does or doesn't happen is a bit of a side issue. It is seen to. It could be a matter of confirmation bias why people fail to notice the many muslims speaking out against things like 9/11 and instead focus on small groups of them who celebrated it.
Re: What can we Muslims in the UK do to combat extremism
Seeing as the question is about what we, as Muslims, can do to combat extremism, a reasonable approach would be to consider what causes extremists to turn to extremism in the first place and tackle that head on.
So what does cause extremists to turn to extremism? Common answers include American and British foreign policy and/or an incorrect interpretation of the Qur'an or possibly both. What do we think? On that issue, I came across an interesting article on MuslimMatters some time ago which I am inclined to agree with (not because I want to agree with it, but because it actually made sense to me) which can be found here.
While we're at it, a definition of extremism would be useful as well. May I assume that we're talking about violent extremism (i.e. terrorism) here? The reason I ask is because terrorism is something that is judged to be extreme by both orthodox Islam and the West. On the other hand, there are some issues which the west may judge to be extreme, but orthodox Islam does not. An example of this would be the wearing of the face veil.
"I spent thirty years learning manners, and I spent twenty years learning knowledge."
Re: What can we Muslims in the UK do to combat extremism
Be vocal about how you do not support terrorism, whenever a bunch of radicals do a demonstration, have a counter-demonstration and show people the other side of Islam. I know a lot of folk in the UK that hate and fear Muslims because they fear that all Muslims want to destroy the UK. They think there are two types- the ones who speak what they are thinking, and the ones that keep it to themselves. Show them that you are neither.
Re: What can we Muslims in the UK do to combat extremism
you can do nothing, no matter what you do, they will still attack and demonize you, that is until you follow their religion, their culture, and their way. the Quran already told us this, they will NEVER be satisfied with you until you do this.
now im not saying we should not combat the extemists, because we should, but what i am saying is dont count your chickens, dont believe for one second that even if you do manage to combat the extremists and shut them up that all of a sudden the anti-Islamic anti-Muslim bigotry will go away.
many anti-Islamic are already comming and out and saying that all Muslims are the same, all radical, all bad, and no such thing as a moderate, that Islam itself is violent and extreme. that Muslims who do good and combat the bad guys are merely using deception to dupe the none-Muslims to eventually take them over.
what does the burqa, hijab, mosque minaret, halal food, and Islamic banking have to do with extremism???? to many western secularists they want to outright ban all of these things, and always demonize such principals as evil, and backward, and barbaric! also dont forget that if you support Palestine and the right to resist Israel you are an extremist as well, and that if you dont fully agree with western foreign policy and oppose it, then you are also an extremist.
heck if your a Muslim who supports Sharia, and wants Sharia in the Muslim world you will also be labelled as an extremist!
last but not least, the last i checked, it was white english hooligans going around england protesting and causing violence and mayhem on the streets of england, costing the government millions of pounds during an econamic recession, so who are the real extremists here, and who should really be combated?
Re: What can we Muslims in the UK do to combat extremism
What I find interesting is the definition of extremism. At first I thought it was a reference to those who attack and kill innocent people in the name of Islam. Yet when I was watching Dispatches the other day, an extremist was apparently someone who believes women should cover, not wear perfume, men and women shouldn't mix etc. I believe all these things. Am I therefore an extremist by western standards?
Re: What can we Muslims in the UK do to combat extremism
format_quote Originally Posted by The_Prince
you can do nothing, no matter what you do, they will still attack and demonize you, that is until you follow their religion, their culture, and their way. the Quran already told us this, they will NEVER be satisfied with you until you do this.
now im not saying we should not combat the extemists, because we should, but what i am saying is dont count your chickens, dont believe for one second that even if you do manage to combat the extremists and shut them up that all of a sudden the anti-Islamic anti-Muslim bigotry will go away.
many anti-Islamic are already comming and out and saying that all Muslims are the same, all radical, all bad, and no such thing as a moderate, that Islam itself is violent and extreme. that Muslims who do good and combat the bad guys are merely using deception to dupe the none-Muslims to eventually take them over.
what does the burqa, hijab, mosque minaret, halal food, and Islamic banking have to do with extremism???? to many western secularists they want to outright ban all of these things, and always demonize such principals as evil, and backward, and barbaric! also dont forget that if you support Palestine and the right to resist Israel you are an extremist as well, and that if you dont fully agree with western foreign policy and oppose it, then you are also an extremist.
heck if your a Muslim who supports Sharia, and wants Sharia in the Muslim world you will also be labelled as an extremist!
last but not least, the last i checked, it was white english hooligans going around england protesting and causing violence and mayhem on the streets of england, costing the government millions of pounds during an econamic recession, so who are the real extremists here, and who should really be combated?
You have to understand though, in these people's view Islam is a direct threat to their race, culture, religion everything they stand for. A heck of a lot of Muslims are coming into the UK now. Turn the situation around, if millions of white European Christians all of a sudden starting moving to the Mid East and starting building churches all over the place, and outnumbered the natives in many areas then you would feel threatened too. The English, Scottish, Welsh, and Irish just want to preserve their own people, culture, and religion in their homeland. Some of them feel threatened enough to get "extreme". I personally know a few fellas in England who live in towns where they are one of the few native English left and they have lived there their entire lives. I would be upset too if I was in their position...
Re: What can we Muslims in the UK do to combat extremism
format_quote Originally Posted by Saghas
You have to understand though, in these people's view Islam is a direct threat to their race, culture, religion everything they stand for. A heck of a lot of Muslims are coming into the UK now. Turn the situation around, if millions of white European Christians all of a sudden starting moving to the Mid East and starting building churches all over the place, and outnumbered the natives in many areas then you would feel threatened too. The English, Scottish, Welsh, and Irish just want to preserve their own people, culture, and religion in their homeland. Some of them feel threatened enough to get "extreme". I personally know a few fellas in England who live in towns where they are one of the few native English left and they have lived there their entire lives. I would be upset too if I was in their position...
Greetings saghas,
imagine how all those people felt then when their countries were under British occupation, their resources depleted and funneled to England as their countries were mere colonies and their fellow country men killed even in peaceful demonstrations?
I am not saying that the threat they feel isn't real.. but what were they expecting? It is the natural order of life.. Karma if you will ......
all the best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: What can we Muslims in the UK do to combat extremism
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
Greetings saghas,
imagine how all those people felt then when their countries were under British occupation, their resources depleted and funneled to England as their countries were mere colonies and their fellow country men killed even in peaceful demonstrations?
I am not saying that the threat they feel isn't real.. but what were they expecting? It is the natural order of life.. Karma if you will ......
all the best
True enough, I have no love for England. Karma indeed. But things are going to get rough in the next twenty years or so in the UK. I know a lot of people who are going to get violent if the "threat" of Islam grows too much. You guys need to do some serious education about Islam to folk in order to prevent it. Make sure folk know what Islam really is about. And for goodness sake don't let any zealous young Muslim men get violent because I can't even tell you the number of times I have heard some Englishmen say that the only excuse they need is if the "enemy" starts something...
I don't even know how to convey to you what kind of movement there is going on in England. There is no way you guys could know about it. People are fearing for their very existence and they are willing to do anything to protect against the "threat" of Islam. EDUCATE THEM! SHOW THEM THE TRUE ISLAM! Show them that you don't want to convert all of them or kill them because that is what they believe. They are terrified...
Re: What can we Muslims in the UK do to combat extremism
Thanks for the replies people...
Whilst i agree with the anything to do with Islam is extreme thing thats being shoved all over the press. I constantly face the accusal that i'm not doing enough to control our extreme elements. In fact i don't even know where to start. I genuinely believe that as Muslims in the UK it's only a matter of time before the host populous accept extreme and violent measures against us and i really don't want my son to go through any of that.
The simple answer is to move to a Muslim country. However as i'm born and bred in the UK no matter how grey the skies are, how crap the weather is at the end of the day it is 'home'. Our thinking, humour and lifestyle is very British indeed but obviously with Islam in mind.
Re: What can we Muslims in the UK do to combat extremism
format_quote Originally Posted by Saghas
True enough, I have no love for England. Karma indeed. But things are going to get rough in the next twenty years or so in the UK. I know a lot of people who are going to get violent if the "threat" of Islam grows too much. You guys need to do some serious education about Islam to folk in order to prevent it. Make sure folk know what Islam really is about. And for goodness sake don't let any zealous young Muslim men get violent because I can't even tell you the number of times I have heard some Englishmen say that the only excuse they need is if the "enemy" starts something...
I don't even know how to convey to you what kind of movement there is going on in England. There is no way you guys could know about it. People are fearing for their very existence and they are willing to do anything to protect against the "threat" of Islam. EDUCATE THEM! SHOW THEM THE TRUE ISLAM! Show them that you don't want to convert all of them or kill them because that is what they believe. They are terrified...
I understand the movement and all Muslims are well aware, as it is one of the signs of the end of times according to Islam:
Minor Signs of the Last Day BODY
General anarchy and bloodshed, that no Arab household will be spared from it
Then a life of peace as a result of a peace agreement between you and the Banil Asfaar
(Romans) which they will break and attack you with a force consisting of eighty flags and under each flag will be an army of twelve thousand men." (Hadith: Sahih Bukhari).
Re: What can we Muslims in the UK do to combat extremism
format_quote Originally Posted by Uncle Jee
I genuinely believe that as Muslims in the UK it's only a matter of time before the host populous accept extreme and violent measures against us and i really don't want my son to go through any of that.
You have no idea...I don't mean to frighten you or anything but I travel in circles that have interaction with these guys and so I know their numbers and their strength. They work tirelessly to push for those "extreme and violent measures". Some of them are insane and racist, but most are very well educated and normal folk who know more about Islam than you would think but they still are fighting to get you guys out...
Here in the US we are used to having wave and wave of immigrants with different religions and cultures but the UK doesn't have that kind of experience. They just don't know how to deal with it.
Re: What can we Muslims in the UK do to combat extremism
format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
I understand the movement and all Muslims are well aware, as it is one of the signs of the end of times according to Islam:
Minor Signs of the Last Day BODY
General anarchy and bloodshed, that no Arab household will be spared from it
Then a life of peace as a result of a peace agreement between you and the Banil Asfaar
(Romans) which they will break and attack you with a force consisting of eighty flags and under each flag will be an army of twelve thousand men." (Hadith: Sahih Bukhari).
Re: What can we Muslims in the UK do to combat extremism
format_quote Originally Posted by Saghas
True enough, I have no love for England. Karma indeed. But things are going to get rough in the next twenty years or so in the UK. I know a lot of people who are going to get violent if the "threat" of Islam grows too much. You guys need to do some serious education about Islam to folk in order to prevent it. Make sure folk know what Islam really is about. And for goodness sake don't let any zealous young Muslim men get violent because I can't even tell you the number of times I have heard some Englishmen say that the only excuse they need is if the "enemy" starts something...
I don't even know how to convey to you what kind of movement there is going on in England. There is no way you guys could know about it. People are fearing for their very existence and they are willing to do anything to protect against the "threat" of Islam. EDUCATE THEM! SHOW THEM THE TRUE ISLAM! Show them that you don't want to convert all of them or kill them because that is what they believe. They are terrified...
It's not fear of conversion; it's more resent, resent that people (Muslims mostly but other minorities) are 'coming over here and taking all our jobs', so to speak. Add to that the poor media coverage of Muslims, and well...
I dropped Religious Education two years ago, and Islam was never mentioned. Heck, it wasn't even proper RE- just looking briefly at abortion, marriage and the like and what various Christian denominations believe about them. I think education is a real issue, and as Nelson Mandela once said:
"Education is the most powerful weapon which you can use to change the world."
The simple answer is to move to a Muslim country. However as i'm born and bred in the UK no matter how grey the skies are, how crap the weather is at the end of the day it is 'home'. Our thinking, humour and lifestyle is very British indeed but obviously with Islam in mind.
Crap weather? Never too hot, never too cold, with not a single incident of a major hurricane or tornado or drought in living memory- I think it's a good climate.
Re: What can we Muslims in the UK do to combat extremism
format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme
It's not fear of conversion; it's more resent, resent that people (Muslims mostly but other minorities) are 'coming over here and taking all our jobs', so to speak. Add to that the poor media coverage of Muslims, and well...
Yeah, its not just Muslims its all non-white folk really. Agreed, the fear of forced conversion might be there but it is more of a general hatred...unfortunately
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Sign Up
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks