I have formed the view that Islam is frightened of scrutiny and worried that Muslims will waiver if exposed to anyone or anything that causes them to question.
I joined this site some time back to learn about Islam and to try and understand Muslims. I started knowing nothing and with no preconceptions. I have read and researched the subject extensively. No I haven’t read everything; yes, I am reading translated text; all that and context and interpretation but at the end of the day the volume of material leads me to some undeniable conclusions.
I stopped posting here sometime back because the constant bullying was draining. The bullying takes the form of deleted posts and unfair infractions designed (I believe) to drive away or suppress anyone who questions the doctrine. In many ways this forum is a reflection of the fear built into Islam. . . . . . Do not associate with the kufar, don’t live amongst them, don’t be friends with them, don’t even look like them. You are taught that this is because if you get near them you will become bad like them. I believe the reason is because Muhammed and your Imams fear the possibility of you being exposed to question. Proof of that is the suppression of people like me who would pose those questions – those questions are deleted for fear they may cause you to question.
It seems to me that there are two types of Muslim in the west. Those who have studied Islam and those who have not;
Those who have studied are in a quandary, they know that, by sheer weight, the volume of text demands that they not live amongst the kufar and although they cling on to some skewed interpretation or other that it’s really OK, they know it is not OK and they try to make amends for that sin by over egging on other easier stuff like growing the beard and wearing the clothes and shouting loudly about how much they love Islam and the rightness of killing anyone who says anything nasty about Muhammad.
Those who have not studied live in a warm foggy reality accepting what they are told and comforted in the thought that they are the chosen ones and only they will go to heaven.
I can remember a time when we all feared communism and communists. Looking back it was clearly ridiculous as communism was clearly unsustainable in the long term. Will the same fate befall Islam. As more and more non Muslims ask questions will more and more Muslims ask questions. Does Islam know that the only answer is a total world caliphate that can suppress any form of question? Did communism understand that was their only salvation?
And one more quandary, delete the post and you prove my point.
Islam must be scared of me too considering the sheer volume of posts deleted, the amount of bullying I have received from non-Muslims by PM, the negatives received and my list of infractions for things as pathetic as posting in the wrong section.. pls allow me to post them here for all to see:
Inappropriate Language Knox Case 12-06-2009
12:30 AM
Posted in the wrong forum 01-19-2008
11:45 AM Never 15 Beef will not be tolerated in any forum. Differences in opinion are expected, but please debate respectfully. (Beef are comments made for the purpose of insulting somebody else with negative intent, looking for a negative reaction, or blatantly insulting
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I have formed the view that Islam is frightened of scrutiny and worried that Muslims will waiver if exposed to anyone or anything that causes them to question.
I joined this site some time back to learn about Islam and to try and understand Muslims. I started knowing nothing and with no preconceptions. I have read and researched the subject extensively. No I haven’t read everything; yes, I am reading translated text; all that and context and interpretation but at the end of the day the volume of material leads me to some undeniable conclusions.
I stopped posting here sometime back because the constant bullying was draining. The bullying takes the form of deleted posts and unfair infractions designed (I believe) to drive away or suppress anyone who questions the doctrine. In many ways this forum is a reflection of the fear built into Islam. . . . . . Do not associate with the kufar, don’t live amongst them, don’t be friends with them, don’t even look like them. You are taught that this is because if you get near them you will become bad like them. I believe the reason is because Muhammed and your Imams fear the possibility of you being exposed to question. Proof of that is the suppression of people like me who would pose those questions – those questions are deleted for fear they may cause you to question.
It seems to me that there are two types of Muslim in the west. Those who have studied Islam and those who have not;
Those who have studied are in a quandary, they know that, by sheer weight, the volume of text demands that they not live amongst the kufar and although they cling on to some skewed interpretation or other that it’s really OK, they know it is not OK and they try to make amends for that sin by over egging on other easier stuff like growing the beard and wearing the clothes and shouting loudly about how much they love Islam and the rightness of killing anyone who says anything nasty about Muhammad.
Those who have not studied live in a warm foggy reality accepting what they are told and comforted in the thought that they are the chosen ones and only they will go to heaven.
I can remember a time when we all feared communism and communists. Looking back it was clearly ridiculous as communism was clearly unsustainable in the long term. Will the same fate befall Islam. As more and more non Muslims ask questions will more and more Muslims ask questions. Does Islam know that the only answer is a total world caliphate that can suppress any form of question? Did communism understand that was their only salvation?
And one more quandary, delete the post and you prove my point.
There is a lot more to it than that, obviously one who was willing understand would be able to (understand).
I would think that if you have been studying for so long, you would have understood by now, especially spending time here on IB, reading other peoples stories and them sharing thoughts and exchanging information etc.
I'll give you an example. I myself am Muslim, but i don't believe that if i kill somebody who talks bad about our prophet (such as that cartoonist) would get be accepted by Allah, at the end of the day it's his decision if i have been a "good" Muslim or not. As far as i know, Islam is not afraid of these "questions" you mention, you would understand that with the vast amount of recources and information avalible to people in this day and age, they would realise and become "liberated" and question Islam (putting it in your prespective) but i think people understand it all, and from my experiance, the more i know, the more i see the truth in Islam.
You reserve the right to believe what you will, but like everyone says the west has some anti-Islamic views and tries to show it as a "cult" and such.
I suggest that you do some more learn some more about Islam, and get to know some real muslims to understand how we feel.
No I think the problem with you was that you'd always have irritating assumptions in your posts, you'd never genuinely question, you'd attack first with incorrect assumptions then pretend to show interest through questions
He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}] www.QuranicAudio.com www.Quran.com
Beef will not be tolerated in any forum. Differences in opinion are expected, but please debate respectfully. (Beef are comments made for the purpose of insulting somebody else with negative intent, looking for a negative reaction, or blatantly insulting
BEEF?
the person who wrote that must have been a vegetarian
No I think the problem with you was that you'd always have irritating assumptions in your posts, you'd never genuinely question, you'd attack first with incorrect assumptions then pretend to show interest through questions
Well, as a non Muslim, I honestly don't think I have been 'bullied' at all on this forum. Aside from my single infraction for literally posting **** in literally stars and not even inferring a word (bad language? seriously?), I don't think I've been bullied. Besides, it's an online forum full of strangers. Who actually cares?
I have formed the view that Islam is frightened of scrutiny and worried that Muslims will waiver if exposed to anyone or anything that causes them to question.
I hold the perspective that certain Muslims or certain interpretations of Islam can be frightened, or hostile to criticism. A quick glance of this forum will certainly tell you that a lot of Muslims are hostile certainly to mockery, and of course being far more practised, observed and taken more seriously than modern day Christianity now - that is no specific surprise.
The reason many Muslims hold criticism to Islam to be offensive, or respond with hostility is because they hold the belief that it is foundationally immoral to question Allah. They project an obedience vs. disobedience ethical framework.
I stopped posting here sometime back because the constant bullying was draining. The bullying takes the form of deleted posts and unfair infractions designed (I believe) to drive away or suppress anyone who questions the doctrine.
I have made many specific comments about Islam and I have only recieved private messages (none since my return) on being off-topic, or engaging in some petty bickering with specific members.
So I don't know what you did...
"I know how to fight
I know how to sing
I know the way"
To remove Thinker's doubt, Muslims are permitted to live in non muslim lands without intent to 'take over the country'.
My proof?
During the life of Prophet Muhammad, he encouraged his companions to make Hijrah/Emigration to Ethiopia [Abysinnia.]
They lived in peace there, and as a minority, so that they could preach and practise their religion [something which Ethiopia and UK allow]. They never took over the country, and were at peace with the people there.
Last edited by - Qatada -; 03-18-2010 at 09:09 PM.
The OP is hilarious, I'm laughing. It was a joke right?
It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and obedience to Allâh, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allâh, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masâkîn (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salât, and gives the Zakât, and keep their word whenever they make a promise, and who are patient in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of persecution, hardship, and war. Such are the people of the truth and they are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious).
Are you for real? So0o you're gunna blame all this on Islam cause you got some infractions and deleted posts? Trust me, we've all been there done that....still there and doing that lol...
Now I'm wonderin what you did.
At the end of the day, we're humans. They delete if they think its appropriate to do so and its not likely it's right every time
*Without Allah, without Islam, life would be meaningless. If I've ever learned patience, it's because of this. Alhamdulillah...*
Thinker, I haven't ever seen your posts or your questions because I'm new here. But as a convert who entered this religion full of questions and skepticism I absolutely agree with you. Dogmatic thinkers always fear critical thinkers, which means to me that deep down they probably don't really believe their own dogma. I don't think this was the case with the Prophet himself, but history is a kind mirage that get's further away the more you try to approach it. I also don't agree with your conclusions, or fit into your categories. But I absolutely agree with your methodology and I think it's sad that even in a forum so modern as the internet, primate intellectual bullying is still the order of the day. You have my empathy.
We have had several non-muslims over the years making critical of Islam, yet constructive posts. I don't believe they would claim they've been bullied by moderators.
The problem Thinker has is his attitude and approach. He has been offensive and despite what he says, does carry preconcieved notions of Islam and muslims upon which he conducts his discussions and tends to read into muslim replies only what he seeks to find to justify his beliefs.
While mods are not perfect, on the whole, they do not delete or edit posts or punish members undeservedly. Some rule or the other must have been contravened.
There is no unfairness against non-muslims either, as sister Skye's post demonstrates.
Dude, Islam isn't frightened of you. Quit stroking your ego.
There's a fine line between being a critical analyst and a troll. Most critics of Islam that I have encountered on the net (youtube, facebook, you name it) fall under troll category. I can count the amount of real analysts on one hand and even they aren't that good (because they know jack about Islam but act like scholars).
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
I stopped posting here sometime back because the constant bullying was draining. The bullying takes the form of deleted posts and unfair infractions designed (I believe) to drive away or suppress anyone who questions the doctrine.
Ahh, then I must have been bullied more than you, since I got 2 pages full of infractions and tons of posts deleted. Well ok, it was mainly because of my Off-topics/Spam but to tell you the truth, I don't really care.
The thing is, the mentality you (most of the time) have is "I am right, you are wrong." that's why you feel attacked everytime we dismiss your views. Ofcourse you can question whatever you want, this is a forum after all. What we don't tolerate is attacks and disrespect.
And as for the onewho fears standing in front of His Lord and restrainsthe soul from impure evil desires and lusts, verily, Paradise will be his abode [79:40-41]
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