Why have we become such a disgrace that we dotn even carry out allahs punishment

[quranalim]

These days if somone mocks the prophet....and even when we knwo what teh punishment for thos is...


why do muslims make up excuses not to carry out this punishment....

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) wrote a valuable book on this matter, entitled al-Saarim al-Maslool ‘ala Shaatim al-Rasool which every believer should read, especially in these times when a lot of hypocrites and heretics dare to insult the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) because they see that the Muslims are careless and feel little protective jealousy towards their religion and their Prophet, and they do not implement the shar’i punishment which would deter these people and their ilk from committing this act of blatant kufr.

[quranalim]

source: http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/22809

[Skavau]

Muslims living in secular societies have become integrated and understand that Sharia Law does not exist, is not plausible and will not be supported there. You are in effect asking why Muslims in secular nations do not go vigilante and attempt to inflict punishment in spite of the law there.

[tango92]

who is going to carry it out? theres no leadership in the MUSLiM world, noone to blame...

[quranalim]

who is going to carry it out? theres no leadership in the MUSLiM world, noone to blame...

asslamu alaikum

i understand where your coming from. but maybe we should see what teh schoalrs have to say about this...many punishments were carried out without the prophets permission, one is the case of the blind man...the prophet did not object to it

[cat eyes]

prophet mohammad (saw) use to get abused and people use to throw stones at him when they saw him coming with his companions when one of them asked the prophet (saw) why are you just ignoring them, the prophet (saw) said maybe one of them will revert to islam.

So upon hearing this story i think we should not be so strict about talking about punishments for non muslims who do these things. maybe these people have there reasons and have the wrong idea about islam so its our duty to set them straight. imagine if we were to punish every one who mocked the prophet mohammad(saw) people are going to hate islam even more and deem it a barbaric religion and we are going to prove them right...

These are not excuses btw.

[quranalim]

prophet mohammad (saw) use to get abused and people use to throw stones at him when they saw him coming with his companions when one of them asked the prophet (saw) why are you just ignoring them, the prophet (saw) said maybe one of them will revert to islam.

So upon hearing this story i think we should not be so strict about talking about punishments for non muslims who do these things. maybe these people have there reasons and have the wrong idea about islam so its our duty to set them straight. imagine if we were to punish every one who mocked the prophet mohammad(saw) people are going to hate islam even more and deem it a barbaric religion and we are going to prove them right...

These are not excuses btw.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) sometimes chose to forgive those who had insulted him, and sometimes he ordered that they should be executed, if that served a greater purpose. But now his forgiveness is impossible because he is dead, so the execution of the one who insults him remains the right of Allaah, His Messenger and the believers, and the one who deserves to be executed cannot be let off, so the punishment must be carried out.

Al-Saarim al-Maslool, 2/438

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/22809

[quranalim]

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/22809

prophet mohammad (saw) use to get abused and people use to throw stones at him when they saw him coming with his companions when one of them asked the prophet (saw) why are you just ignoring them, the prophet (saw) said maybe one of them will revert to islam.

So upon hearing this story i think we should not be so strict about talking about punishments for non muslims who do these things. maybe these people have there reasons and have the wrong idea about islam so its our duty to set them straight. imagine if we were to punish every one who mocked the prophet mohammad(saw) people are going to hate islam even more and deem it a barbaric religion and we are going to prove them right...

These are not excuses btw.

what your reffering to is repentance? and giving the non-muslims a chance.

The scholars are agreed that if such a person repents sincerely and regrets what he has done, this repentance will benefit him on the Day of Resurrection and Allaah will forgive him.

But they differed as to whether his repentance should be accepted in this world and whether that means he is no longer subject to the sentence of execution.

Maalik and Ahmad were of the view that it should not be accepted, and that he should be killed even if he has repented.

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/22809

The idea that somone who mocks the prophet should nto be allowed to repent is based on hadith...

In the Sunnah, Abu Dawood (2683) narrated that Sa’d ibn Abi Waqqaas said: “On the Day of the Conquest of Makkah, the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) granted safety to the people except for four men and two women, and he named them, and Ibn Abi Sarh… As for Ibn Abi Sarh, he hid with ‘Uthmaan ibn ‘Affaan, and when the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) called the people to give their allegiance to him, he brought him to stand before the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). He said, “O Prophet of Allaah, accept the allegiance of ‘Abd-Allaah.” He raised his head and looked at him three times, refusing him, then he accepted his allegiance after the third time. Then he turned to his companions and said: “Was there not among you any smart man who could have got up and killed this person when he saw me refusing to give him my hand and accept his allegiance?” They said, “We do not know what is in your heart, O Messenger of Allaah. Why did you not gesture to us with your eyes?” He said, “It is not befitting for a Prophet to betray a person with a gesture of his eyes.”

(Classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood, 2334)

[cat eyes]

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/22809

that fatwa is talking about a muslim gone kufir. its not the same as a non muslim, a non muslim has not received the message yet so how can they get punishments?

prophet mohammad (saw) NEVER ordered the punishment of any non muslim who abused him. this prove still remains today.

and i think on that note this thread should be closed

[quranalim]

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/22809

that fatwa is talking about a muslim gone kufir. its not the same as a non muslim, a non muslim has not received the message yet so how can they get punishments?

prophet mohammad (saw) NEVER ordered the punishment of any non muslim who abused him. this prove still remains today.

and i think on that note this thread should be closed

how can you say such a thing? why do you reject the punishment for mocking the prophet? and you lie about the prophet by denying he punished anyone for this sin?

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) sometimes chose to forgive those who had insulted him, and sometimes he ordered that they should be executed, if that served a greater purpose. But now his forgiveness is impossible because he is dead, so the execution of the one who insults him remains the right of Allaah, His Messenger and the believers, and the one who deserves to be executed cannot be let off, so the punishment must be carried out.

Al-Saarim al-Maslool, 2/438

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/22809


Ibn Taymiyyah says in “Mukhtasar As-Saram Al-Maslool `Ala Shatim Ar-Rasul (Summary of The Drawn Sword Against the One Who Curses the Messenger) Pages 31-33”

Whoever Curses the Prophet Peace and Blessings be Upon him, Muslim or Kafir, Must be Killed.

This is the methodology of the general scholars.
Muhammad Ibn Suhnoon said that:

the scholars are in consensus that the one who curses the Messenger is a Kafir; and whoever doubts his Kufr is a Kafir.

The bottom line: That the Muslim one who curses [The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him] is to be killed without disagreement, and it is the opinion of the methodology of the four Imams as well as other than them; even if he is a Jizya-paying non-Muslim, he is killed as well – according to Malik and the people of Madina; and it is the way of Ahmad and the scholars of Hadith. Ahmad specified it many times.

Hanbal, Abus-Saqr, Al-Khallal, Abdullah, and Abu Talib –said that:

he is to be killed whether he is Muslim or Kafir.

Source: http://www.islamicemirate.com/fiqh-j...%20Prophet.pdf

[cat eyes]

i think the thread over all is insensitive to the non muslims on the forum. there is many hadiths where punishments should not be carried out just like the story i had posted above!

It was not the character of the prophet (saw) to go punishing non muslims that quarrelled with him and that is not a lie because i can show you prove.

us laymen cannot say whether a shariah punishment should be carried out or not. this is not in your hands or mine!

[cat eyes]

if a muslim has left the fold of islam and now he is abusing the prophet mohammad (saw) then yes there should be punishment this is what Allah is referring to but i am talking about a non muslim who dose not know the first thing about islam. you cannot put these both people in the same category. there is many things that has to be taken in to account even for a non muslim its not that easy to carry out a punishment

[aadil77]

bro Quranalim i understand what you're saying, but again these punishments would only apply in a muslim country where they can be carried out by the state, think about it - if a kaffir comes to you tomorrow and says the prophet was 'pervert' astagfirullah would you kill him instantly?

[quranalim]

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/22809

if a muslim has left the fold of islam and now he is abusing the prophet mohammad (saw) then yes there should be punishment this is what Allah is referring to but i am talking about a non muslim who dose not know the first thing about islam. you cannot put these both people in the same category. there is many things that has to be taken in to account even for a non muslim its not that easy to carry out a punishment

you seem to be create your own image of islam, and following what you desire islam to be, rather than what it is


their is a different ruling on people who are insane? but if they are not insane, the schoalrs are clear on this...matter also heard the hadith

With regard to the Sunnah, Abu Dawood (4362) narrated from ‘Ali that a Jewish woman used to insult the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and say bad things about him, so a man strangled her until she died, and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) ruled that no blood money was due in this case.

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/22809

On the day of the conquest of Mecca, Abdullah ibn Sa'd ibn AbuSarh hid himself with Uthman ibn Affan. He brought him and made him stand before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him), and said: Accept the allegiance of Abdullah, Apostle of Allah! He raised his head and looked at him three times, refusing him each time, but accepted his allegiance after the third time. Then turning to his companions, he said: Was not there a wise man among you who would stand up to him when he saw that I had withheld my hand from accepting his allegiance, and kill him? They said: We did not know what you had in your heart, Apostle of Allah! Why did you not give us a signal with your eye? He said: It is not advisable for a Prophet to play deceptive tricks with the eyes. Sunnan Abu Dawud 38:4346

considered sahih by albani.

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/22809

[Salahudeen]

How can we carry out the punishment of Allah when our rulers are non Muslim and we're living in their lands. We haven't even got a leader or a system in place to implement shari'a. Forget implementing shari'a in the west, Muslim countries don't even have 100% sharia law, I find it comical when groups call for Islamic Law in the west when in their home countries like Pakistan there's brothels and alcohol being sold. No doubt every Muslim wants to live under sharia but untill there is a proper state we don't have the right to go round inflicting the punishment of Allah upon people.

Every scholar I've heard has said "live according to the laws of the land and do not take the law into your own hands" I've not heard one of them actually promote going round and stoning the adulterer while living in a non islamic country.

If someone mocked the prophet pbuh because all his life he had been fed bad information about the prophet and was none the wiser with regards to his actual personality are you just going to kill this person?

what if later in life he learns the truth about Islam and becomes Muslim, by killing him you take away that possibility.

Are you telling me if some 1 mocked the prophet pbuh infront of you in a non islamic country where there's no shari'a, you'd just kill them ? is that what you're saying? is that what you're promoting here? I'm abit unclear about what you're trying to get at. you're saying implement the punishment of Allah but you've jumped 2 steps down the road, the first step was Islamic state and actual shari'a law .

focus on them things before you start going round inflicting people who are non the wiser with sharia punishments.

[quranalim]

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/22809

bro Quranalim i understand what you're saying, but again these punishments would only apply in a muslim country where they can be carried out by the state, think about it - if a kaffir comes to you tomorrow and says the prophet was 'pervert' astagfirullah would you kill him instantly?

brother/sister, you may view such a thign as extreme (outside the fold of islam) and wrong. but the hadith itself metions what you are talking about.

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas: A blind man had a slave-mother who used to abuse the Prophet (peace be upon him) and disparage him. He forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace be upon him) and abuse him. So he took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace be upon him) was informed about it.

He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

He sat before the Prophet (peace be upon him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her. Thereupon the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.[Sunnan Abu Dawud 38:4348, Sunnan Abu Dawud 38:4361]

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/22809

[quranalim]

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/22809

How can we carry out the punishment of Allah when our rulers are non Muslim and we're living in their lands. We haven't even got a leader or a system in place to implement shari'a. Forget implementing shari'a in the west, Muslim countries don't even have 100% sharia law, I find it comical when groups call for Islamic Law in the west when in their home countries like Pakistan there's brothels and alcohol being sold. No doubt every Muslim wants to live under sharia but untill there is a proper state we don't have the right to go round inflicting the punishment of Allah upon people.

Every scholar I've heard has said "live according to the laws of the land and do not take the law into your own hands" I've not heard one of them actually promote going round and stoning the adulterer while living in a non islamic country.

If someone mocked the prophet pbuh because all his life he had been fed bad information about the prophet and was none the wiser with regards to his actual personality are you just going to kill this person?

what if later in life he learns the truth about Islam and becomes Muslim, by killing him you take away that possibility.

Are you telling me if some 1 mocked the prophet pbuh infront of you in a non islamic country where there's no shari'a, you'd just kill them ? is that what you're saying? is that what you're promoting here? I'm abit unclear about what you're trying to get at. you're saying implement the punishment of Allah but you've jumped 2 steps down the road, the first step was Islamic state and actual shari'a law .

focus on them things before you start going round inflicting people who are non the wiser with sharia punishments.

see my previous comment. also, i urge you to read this fatwa

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/22809

[quranalim]

thier are also many many more hadith liek the above i mentioned

[Salahudeen]

see my previous comment. also, i urge you to read this fatwa

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/22809

I read it, and where does it say Muslim's who are not living under shari'a should carry out these punishments? I see the fatwa, and the sheikh is out lining the shari punishment for the 1 who mocks the prophet pbuh. where does he say Muslim's should do this themselves living in non Muslim lands where there's no sharia?

as far as I understood it that entire article was based upon the assumption you're living under sharia law. I didn't see any mention of those who live in non muslim lands where there's no sharia.

[Salahudeen]

thier are also many many more hadith liek the above i mentioned

You're quoting hadith but all the hadith are in the time of the prophet pbuh when there was an Islamic state and sharia was being implemented. show me a hadith that shows Muslim's carrying out the punishment of Allah whilst living in a non Muslim land under kuffar rulers. That will hold weight as that would be similar to our situation. But the hadith you're quoting were at the time of the Islamic state under sharia law.

so show me where the punishment of Allah was carried out under a non muslim ruler in a foreign land against the laws of that country and the prophet pbuh gave approval. I'm interested to know if such a hadith exists.