I am a member of what is commonly dubbed the 'revolutionary left' and I am helping to co-ordinate resistance against the EDL when they come to Bradford on the 28th of August. What I'm posting about is to encourage any of you guys who want to come along and protest against the fascists, however I am very scared about what may happen if we aren't unified in dealing with them. It would be such bad news for everyone if the events of 2001 were to be repeated, but at the same time it is simply not fair to expect people not to oppose Nazis marching in their cities.
I will be updating this thread over the next couple months and I'm hoping you guys can suggest how you think we should deal with the EDL in a way that doesn't promote violence or promote division. If any of you are interested in the Anarchist Fed for Yorkshire (long shot) who are going to militantly oppose the EDL, here's the link: cant post links, its " w w w'dot'yorks-afed'dot'org
Finally I would like to say, I am not a Muslim myself and never will be, but the idea that these b*****ds would tell you what religion to practise because of the actions of a handful of nutters is baffling, and I genuinely apologise on behalf of the civilised people of Britain that in the 21st century there is still such intolerance and fear of differing culture. Peace to all of you, I will be looking forward to discussing how we work together in the future. With my kindest regards.
Yes, I have attended several UAF marches in the past and I have great respect for them, it's just Bradford has a capacity to flame up more than say Newcastle or Stoke ever did. I absolutely hate them, I can't describe quite how much I hate racist fascist hooligans marching in our cities. Do you know what approach community leaders in Bradford are taking? Also I've just noticed replies come above the original post! I've never seen that on a forum before!
I will be updating this thread over the next couple months and I'm hoping you guys can suggest how you think we should dealwith the EDL in a way that doesn't promoteviolence or promote division. If any of you are interested in the Anarchist Fed for Yorkshire (long shot) who are going to militantly oppose the EDL, here's the link: cant post links, its " w w w'dot'yorks-afed'dot'org
One can militantly oppose something without using violence. Our plans are to block the routes they intend to march upon and should they break out and start attacking shops etc. help defend them, but we won't start attacking them unless they attack people first. Hope this helps.
One can militantly oppose something without using violence.
In theory, perhaps. I've yet to see non-violent militant opposition to a march or demonstration, though. In such context the term is an oxymoron. And you know it.
format_quote Originally Posted by friendofall
Our plans are to block the routes they intend to march upon and should they break out and start attacking shops etc. help defend them, but we won't start attacking them unless they attack people first. Hope this helps.
Riiight...and you've cleared these tactics with the West Yorkshire Police, have you?
Something may not be cleared with the police, but that does not make it illegal. The link explains what is proposed.
And the idea that militantly opposing something constitutes violence is ridiculous. One can not do exactly what the police want, ie dodge around their lines and confront the fascists like we did in Newcastle, without any punches being thrown. It is a common practice amongst the left to militantly oppose things in non-violent ways, for example many of the left were behind the protests against South African apartheid, that involved invading sports pitches and such things. Furthermore, there were many from the left involved in the anti-war/ anti-weapon production demos who try and block entry without harming anyone.
The police will never agree with what is suggested, all they will say is the EDL should march and nobody should rise to the bait blah blah blah. It is a nice idea, and in a perfect world this would be the case, but we know it is not the reality. As long as we do not break the law, do not hurt anyone, and merely show solidarity with the people of Bradford, I do not see your problem. If you would suggest a better way of dealing with the EDL march, please tell me, but to me there will be more trouble if they are allowed to march.
Sorry if I've come across as some sort of rampant aggressor, it isn't meant like that, and that isn't what anyone on the left has planned.
Friendofall, I am very much against the BNP and similar groups of the same ilk, but I am not sure about your suggested methods.
I noticed under 'Who we are' that one of the Aims and Principles of the YAF is the following: 10. We oppose organised religion and religious belief(s).
Perhaps not the best way to get Muslims and people from faiths engaged in this.
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
Something may not be cleared with the police, but that does not make it illegal. The link explains what is proposed.
And the idea that militantly opposing something constitutes violence is ridiculous. One can not do exactly what the police want, ie dodge around their lines and confront the fascists like we did in Newcastle, without any punches being thrown. It is a common practice amongst the left to militantly oppose things in non-violent ways, for example many of the left were behind the protests against South African apartheid, that involved invading sports pitches and such things. Furthermore, there were many from the left involved in the anti-war/ anti-weapon production demos who try and block entry without harming anyone.
The police will never agree with what is suggested, all they will say is the EDL should march and nobody should rise to the bait blah blah blah. It is a nice idea, and in a perfect world this would be the case, but we know it is not the reality. As long as we do not break the law, do not hurt anyone, and merely show solidarity with the people of Bradford, I do not see your problem. If you would suggest a better way of dealing with the EDL march, please tell me, but to me there will be more trouble if they are allowed to march.
Sorry if I've come across as some sort of rampant aggressor, it isn't meant like that, and that isn't what anyone on the left has planned.
I typed a detailed reply to your post, but it got wiped when I tried to post it and I don't have time to go over it all again.
What it boiled down to was, you are probably right that there'll be trouble anyway. You organising diverse groups of trouble makers into one focused group won't change that.
In this context militancy cannot mean non-violent. You kid yourself if you truly believe otherwise.
The only truly non-violent way of stopping this march would be by using passive resistance.
That is, everyone sits, lies down or links arms and refuses to move for anyone or anything.
You have to take the blows from the EDL without responding in any way. Let the police deal with their violence. You also have to offer no direct resistance to the police when they move you physically, one by one. No fighting or spitting at or abusing them; just don't co-operate. Let them waste time and manpower on moving you safely (make sure TV cameras are present, of course). It'll take between two and four officers to do that.
The resulting media coverage will give you the moral high ground, and function as a recruitment advertisement. If there are enough of you, you will also have stopped the march.
I know that the KKK here in the US hope that protesters show up to their rallies as it gives them more media attention. People have gotten smarter now and ignore them.
>glo. I am not religious, and to a certain extent I disagree with religion, however I respect anyone's right to practice religion. Furthermore, AF is merely one of a whole host of groups opposing the EDL, including ANTIFA, UAF, Searchlight etc. None of them are anti religion, I merely posted Anarchist federation because they are calling for a mass mobilisation which they have not in the past.
>Templar. In Newcastle something we did was link arms and refuse to move from their path, however due to their being only 50 or 60 of us the police moved us after a while. In Newcastle I was punched in the face and simply responded by saying that I argue my politics with words and not fists. I am a pacifist by nature.
>Titus. They intend to march through a predominantly Muslim area and in the past they have attacked shops and local women and children. There is bound to be a resistance to them, it is making sure it is unified and non aggressive that is important in my opinion.
>glo. I am not religious, and to a certain extent I disagree with religion, however I respect anyone's right to practice religion. Furthermore, AF is merely one of a whole host of groups opposing the EDL, including ANTIFA, UAF, Searchlight etc. None of them are anti religion, I merely posted Anarchist federation because they are calling for a mass mobilisation which they have not in the past.
Thanks for your reply and for your clarification.
Perhaps it is unfortunate that you mentioned the AF in particular here in a religious forum, because their statement to "oppose organised religion and religious belief(s)" certainly sounds anti religion to me.
I am not familiar with the AF or any of the other organisations you mentioned, but I will try to look them up when I have the time.
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
Anarchist Federation are anti-establishment, and as a result are anti-religion, however it's hard to describe this, but they're sort of anti all religion equally and thus are interested in fighting the negatives of all different religions (homophobia, intolerance) while they would be accepting of people who practice religion peacefully? And they would also be of the view the EDL aren't just anti-Islamic, but are also quite simply racist.
Would you say there is a difference between being 'anti-religious-organisations' and being 'anti-religious-beliefs'?
I guess what I mean is, does the danger - in your opinion - lie with the organisation of religion or with the belief itself?
(Sorry, I shouldn't be taking your thread off topic ...)
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
>Templar. In Newcastle something we did was link arms and refuse to move from their path, however due to their being only 50 or 60 of us the police moved us after a while. In Newcastle I was punched in the face and simply responded by saying that I argue my politics with words and not fists. I am a pacifist by nature.
Fair enough. That's not militancy, though. That's passive resistance.
Although I think that is the best form of protest, I must admit I am not a pacifist by nature.
Which is unfortunate, because my particular Christian sect is in part defined by the pacificism of its adherents. I struggle with it, myself.
>glo. Interesting question. Personally I have no problem with people who practice Islam peacefully, but I do have massive issues with how states (and some people) interpret it such as Pakistan or Afghanistan. In the same breath I'd say I do not have issue with most Catholics but do with the Catholic church. So I would say that generally my personal objections to religion comes more from the organisations who manipulate them and use them for their benefit. Just my thoughts though.
Fair enough. That's not militancy, though. That's passive resistance.
Although I think that is the best form of protest, I must admit I am not a pacifist by nature.
Which is unfortunate, because my particular Christian sect is in part defined by the pacificism of its adherents. I struggle with it, myself.
Fair enough, perhaps militancy was the wrong term to use, what I meant though was a resistance that is not merely standing behind police blockades saying naughty racists, that involved confronting them and saying they're not welcome.
Unite against fascism are running a bus down from Newcastle, so if anyone from the North-East wants to come if you inform me nearer the time I'll pass details on to you.
They fight Islam today, tomorrow it will be Asians, next week it will be Trade unions, then communists, then blacks etc.
The only way to fight intolerance is with unity and solidarity and it's very difficult with the EDL as it's apparent they contain racist thugs but also people who aren't necessarily racist but are simply scared and oppressed. The thing that pisses me off the most is our government goes off fighting 'extremist Islam'- killing 2 million odd people, brings in detention of "terror suspects" for 28 days without charge (what is wrong with normal law?!), they use stop and search to target ethnic minorities and is complicit in the torture of innocent people in the name of fighting terrorism and it's no surprise therefore that people are ****ting themselves about Islam, if the government werent so f**king reactionary then they would see that they are inciting this ignorance!
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