Once again they came to my door and tried handing me their leaflets - only this time I didn't accept them, but instead they've agreed to come round my house next week and have a 'little' discussion.
For me this seems like a serious dawa'h opp, they already started feeling uneasy when I asked them where in the bible does it say jesus is the begotten son.
Basically my plan is to disprove some of their beliefs then hopefully start talking to them about islam and I wanna hand them a quran english translation in the end.
I don't know much about their beliefs, so if someone can highlight the main beliefs I can hammer them on, that would great
JazakhAllah khair
btw whats with all the stupid center aligning?
He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}] www.QuranicAudio.com www.Quran.com
They come to my house often and I always call them in and talk with them. They told me they don't believe in the Bible but the dead sea scrolls. I asked them what is the difference between Muslims and them. They said the following:
1. They believe Isa alayhisalaam is the son of God wana 'audhubillah
2. They don't believe in violence, even in defending!
3. They don't believe in Hell
4. They said a person who is a Muslim can stay a Muslim if he smokes, but if a Jehovas witness is caught smoking his membership will be revoked until he has some sort of hearing.
Can't remember what else he said. I asked him that if no one has the fear of any punishment in the hereafter what is to stop them from sinning? Most of the time they will answer saying if we love God anything is possible, and if they don't have the answer to something they'll say we'll wait for an answer from God.
One thing that disturbed me was the booklets they have with images of what looked like my local park on a Saturday afternoon and they claim that it is "paradise".
they came to me this morning and starting talking about 'the end of time' and all these natural disasters lol
I think I'll avoid getting into their beliefs too much, just refute the son of god claim and then go onto islam
He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}] www.QuranicAudio.com www.Quran.com
You know what ? a girl i work with tried to convert me- no joke. at the time, i didnt knw wat to say? im not very assertive and didnt wana seem rude. anyway this girl bought me a copy of her bible and offered to take me to her kingdom hall.
from what i understand they believe in some1 called Jehovah (there god) and that hes gona save the world. also theres only something like 58,000 places in heaven. ? If they manage to convert a muslim, then its massive reward for them, hence the reason why this girl just wouldnt leave me alone.
they dont believe in birthdays. and theres always conventions going on around the world.
I read up about it last year, but cant remember the rest now.
they don't celebrate anything at all.. they also don't give blood if you were nearly dying and in need of it, they'd rather watch you suffer a painful death.
heres just one example
Critically-ill father faces death because Jehovah's Witness wife refuses to let him have a blood transfusion
A father who was gravely injured by a hit-and-run car could die because he is a Jehovah's Witness.
John Edwards, 58, needs a blood transfusion but his wife Sheila insists he would not want the life-saving procedure, which is against their religious beliefs.
As a result the couple's sons, who are not Jehovah's Witnesses, could have to watch their father die.
Jonathan Edwards, 36, his brother Tom, 29, and the doctors treating Mr Edwards are powerless to act in the face of his religious beliefs.
Jehovah's Witnesses believe the Bible forbids them from accepting blood, either in food or for medical reasons.
Mr Edwards, a council worker, was hit by a silver Mercedes in the early hours of Wednesday morning near
his home in Southall, West London. He suffered massive internal injuries and wounds to his head, leg and arm and was taken to Ealing Hospital.
Yesterday, he was fighting for his life in intensive care.
Doctors are reported to have told Mrs Edwards, a 61-year-old retired teacher, that her husband of 37 years could die within two or three days without a transfusion.
A family source said: 'Sheila is adamant that John must not have blood. She says giving him a transfusion would be like assaulting him - and he wouldn't want to live knowing he'd disobeyed his God.
'She's in a terrible state, constantly in tears at his bedside, but she won't give in to requests from anyone.'
A lodger at the couple's three-bedroom home in Southall said the family were 'devastated' by their situation.
She said the pair were both raised as Jehovah's Witnesses and were devoted to the religion, and added that Mr Edwards was a 'highly respected elder' who often spoke at prayer meetings.'
Mr Edwards' father Frederick said he hoped his son would recover naturally from his injuries.
The 88-year-old grandfather said: 'I believe he is now on the mend. He is in a stable condition and we are just hoping for the best.'
A neighbour of the couple, who refused to give her name, said: 'I feel very sad for them because it must be such a difficult time and a difficult-decision. But I cannot understand why they would refuse treatment that can save his life. It makes no sense to me.'
Paul Wade, a spokesman at the religion's London headquarters, said the faith's ban on blood transfusion was based on 'careful study of the Bible'.
He said: 'This man has held his beliefs for many decades and the hospital - to its credit - is respecting his wishes. It is an issue of personal choice.'
The driver of the silver Mercedes fled the scene but was later traced and arrested, police said.
The man, who is in his 20s, has been released on bail.
Police refused to comment on claims that he was breathalysed and found to be over the drink-drive limit.
Another Jehovah's Witness, 22-year- old Emma Gough, died last October after refusing to have a blood transfusion following the birth of her twins.
An inquest into the death of the young mother, of Telford, Shropshire, heard that she told a midwife she was happy to die rather than have the procedure.
Courts recently have respected the wishes of adult Witnesses to refuse transfusions but doctors can attempt to have medical responsibility transferred away from parents if they refuse treatment for their children.
1-what are your beliefs
2-why should I subscribe to those beliefs
3-has anyone come back from the dead to validate your beliefs as true.
4-your beliefs are illogical why are they superior to any others in your opinion (including other christian denominations when you use the same corrupted bible but add your own twist)
5- does your god require you to go door to door shouldn't the truth stand on its own without indoctrination?
6- are blacks and whites created equal in your religion
7- why do you need to wear special under-wear and do you sell that at the gift shop adjacent to your church or does it come free when you are fully indoctrinated?
8- why does god ask you to withhold life and or limb saving treatment when sick?
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
1-what are your beliefs
2-why should I subscribe to those beliefs
3-has anyone come back from the dead to validate your beliefs as true.
4-your beliefs are illogical why are they superior to any others in your opinion (including other christian denominations when you use the same corrupted bible but add your own twist)
5- does your god require you to go door to door shouldn't the truth stand on its own without indoctrination? 6- are blacks and whites created equal in your religion
7- why do you need to wear special under-wear and do you sell that at the gift shop adjacent to your church or does it come free when you are fully indoctrinated?
8- why does god ask you to withhold life and or limb saving treatment when sick?
2 of them came to my door, one was black the other was white
lol
He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}] www.QuranicAudio.com www.Quran.com
You could just have them talk about their beliefs and ask them as many questions you can...maybe record the convo?
I'm guessing they come often, so you can use the material they have to conjure up a good debate for the next time they arrive.
I don't know how consistent they are with their beliefs but this is a good way to figure it out.
2 of them came to my door, one was black the other was white
lol
just because they came together doesn't mean that there is equality ask them to quote you their book in that regard.. you might just sow the seeds of discord right there and then...
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I'm not sure where the information came that they believe in the Divinity of Jesus, they don't. They believe in Jesus as the son of God, but not in equality....so He is a separate entity. They absolutely do use the bible and believe in it as well. I have received a number of free copies. lol I found the following information and copied it for you:
According to the Jehovah's Witnesses, there is one God, and since 1931, they have insisted that He be called "Jehovah." This is a corruption in the pronunciation of the Hebrew <Yahweh>, which occurred about the third century B.C. and was carried into the King James Bible's translation of <Yahweh> in Exodus 6:3. The Jehovah's Witnesses say that Jesus is God's Son, but is inferior to God. They condemn the Trinity as pagan idolatry and accordingly deny Christ's divinity. Russell even claimed that the Trinity was the idea of Satan. Ironically, however, when they baptize, they use the formula, "...In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."
Nevertheless, the Jehovah's Witnesses consider Jesus as the greatest Witness of all, inferior to no one except Jehovah Himself. Before existing as a human being, Jesus was a spiritual creature called the Logos, or Word, or even Michael the Archangel. He died as a man and was raised as an immortal Spirit-Son. His passion and death were the price He paid to regain for mankind the right to live eternally on earth. Indeed, the great multitude of true Witnesses hope in an earthly Paradise (These teachings echo the heresies which the early Church condemned beginning at the council of Nicea in 325).
They believe that the Bible is the only source of belief and rule of conduct. However, their Bible aids seem to have more strength. They are only allowed to use their own translation of the Bible and other official publications. Unfortunately, many purposeful mistranslations exist in their version to support their tenets. For example, in the New Testament, "Lord" is translated <Jehovah> except where it refers directly to Christ. In the Last Supper account, they translate, "Take, eat. This is My body." To "Take, eat. This means My body." To affirm that Jesus was created, they add the word other to Colossians 1:16, "By means of Him, everything was created...,"; "By means of Him, all other things were created in the heaven and upon the earth... All other things have been created through him and for him. Also, He is before all other things and by means of Him all other things were made to exist."
The Jehovah's Witnesses also deny the immortality of the soul, the existence of hell, and the seven sacraments. (Although they have ritual of baptism, they regard it as merely the exterior symbol of their dedication to the service of Jehovah.) They observe no feast—including Christmas—except the Memorial of the Last Supper, which they hold once a year after sundown on the 14th day of Nisan (a former method of computing the date of Easter and Passover) and during which only those who consider themselves as being among the celestial 144,000 may partake of the "emblems"—the bread and wine. They refuse blood transfusions. They also refuse to salute the flag, seeing this as an act of idolatry. They also condemn smoking.
The Jehovah's Witnesses are also preoccupied with Armageddon—the final clash between the forces of good and evil. Here God will destroy the old system of creation and establish Jehovah's Kingdom. A group of 144,000 spiritual sons of God will rise to heaven, rule with Christ, and share their happiness with the others. However, the wicked will undergo complete destruction. Russell said that this Armageddon could not happen later than 1914. (He had given specific dates and times on three earlier occasions, but was wrong). From 1920, Rutherford proclaimed that "millions now living will never die"; he also expected the "princes of old"—Abraham, Isaac, and the others—to come back to life by 1925 as rulers over the New World.
After so many mistaken predictions, the Watch Tower Society of the mid-20th century no longer specified an exact date for all of this to happen; but it repeated that "this generation will by no means pass away until all things occur." More recently, Nathan Knorr, who succeeded Rutherford in 1942 as head, predicted that the world would end in 1974; the world itself did not end, but this world did for Knorr—he died in 1974. Nevertheless, Witnesses are deeply convinced that the end of the world will come within a very few years.
Each member is considered an ordained minister to give witness to Jehovah by announcing His approaching Kingdom. He may do this by door-to-door evangelization, by meeting with others for home Bible studies, or by standing at street corners to display Watch Tower literature. Preaching the good news is the only means of salvation. Ordinarily, the entry level Jehovah's Witness is called a "servant". A "publisher," attends five hourly meetings a week and is to devote 10 hours a month witnessing. A "pioneer" gives 100 hours a month to the society.
According to my new found friend, John, who comes a knockin' every now and then, they do believe the Dead Sea Scrolls confirms their beliefs. However, I just happen to have been studying the Scrolls for the past 5 years or so and I have yet to see for myself or from any other source that agrees with that.
Inshallah, this will provide you with some basic information.
Wa'alaikum salam,
Hana
Last edited by *Hana*; 08-22-2010 at 01:50 AM.
"Whoever is deprived of gentleness is deprived of all good" (Sahîh Muslim, Sunan Abî Dawûd)
The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen, nor touched...but are felt in the heart.
-Helen Keller
1-what are your beliefs
2-why should I subscribe to those beliefs
3-has anyone come back from the dead to validate your beliefs as true.
4-your beliefs are illogical why are they superior to any others in your opinion (including other christian denominations when you use the same corrupted bible but add your own twist)
5- does your god require you to go door to door shouldn't the truth stand on its own without indoctrination?
6- are blacks and whites created equal in your religion
7- why do you need to wear special under-wear and do you sell that at the gift shop adjacent to your church or does it come free when you are fully indoctrinated?
8- why does god ask you to withhold life and or limb saving treatment when sick?
Good points. But I think you are confusing some of their beliefs with Mormonism. JWs don't wear special underwear like devout Mormons do. They believe in the Bible, but they use their own translation. That makes it hard to bible-bash with them. Their translation supports their special beliefs. Any decent student of Greek can demonstrate the errors in their Bible translation.
Their translation of John1:1 is faulty. Other christian religions hammer on that all the time because their translation denies the divinity of Jesus.
Hence they do not believe that Jesus is God, so in that respect they might agree with Islam.They rely on the old men who run their church from headquarters to tell them what to believe and what to teach each Sunday.
You can ask them why they have predicted the end of the world so many times and it didn't happen. They are waiting for the end and it just doesn't happen. Why so many false prophecies? They probably don't have a very good answer for that.
I don't think they are racially prejudiced at all. Maybe I'm wrong but I've never come across any racist teachings from them. Mormonism used to deny the priesthood to blacks, but I think JWs have always allowed people of all races to lead.
They don't participate in the pledge of allegiance. They don't celebrate birthdays or other holidays. They vote but I'm not sure if they ever run for office.
I work with some JWs and they are real nice people. But I could never become one of them. It is too much of a brainwash.
They have to go door to door and spread the word. I recommend you talk to them. They probably don't understand Islam at all.
“All day I think about it, then at night I say it. Where did I come from, and what am I supposed to be doing? I have no idea. My soul is from elsewhere, I'm sure of that, and I intend to end up there.”
^^ you are absolutely correct br. Rabi, and I did acknowledge my mistake .. Jazaka Allah khyran..
Oops. I missed that.
'Na Asf Ukti
رمضان مبارك
“All day I think about it, then at night I say it. Where did I come from, and what am I supposed to be doing? I have no idea. My soul is from elsewhere, I'm sure of that, and I intend to end up there.”
You're right that many do not have a lot of knowledge about Islam. In my experience, when you explain a particular belief of Islam and they are unable to respond, they most often admit they didn't know it and will tell you they will come back after speaking with others. Some will come back, while others will not. They have always been extremely kind when they came to my house and I too have worked with many and have also found them to be very kind.
I've tried a lot of searches to try to study their beliefs, but the information is very scarce. Usually what I find is anti-JW sites, which are useless.
Inshallah, the brother will have enough understanding of their basic beliefs to engage in conversation with them.
Wa'alaikum salam,
Hana
"Whoever is deprived of gentleness is deprived of all good" (Sahîh Muslim, Sunan Abî Dawûd)
The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen, nor touched...but are felt in the heart.
-Helen Keller
One of the main differences between JWs and Orthodox Christianity is with regard to Jesus Christ. Here is basically what JWs believe about Jesus (copied from another site):
JW’s believe that Jesus Christ was a perfect man, and that He is a person distinct from God the Father. However, they also teach that before His earthly life, Jesus was a spirit creature, Michael the archangel, who was created by God and became the Messiah at His baptism. According to Jehovah’s Witnesses, Jesus is a mighty one, although not almighty as Jehovah God is. According to John 1:1 in their Bible, The New World Translation, Christ is “a god,” but not “the God.” They teach that Jesus “was and is and always will be beneath Jehovah” and that “Christ and God are not coequal”.
So as you can see, they do not subscribe to a belief in the trinity. I think that would be a good starting point for a Muslim to engage a JW in discussion. You could point out that Islam does not subscribe to a belief in the trinity either, and show them what the Qur'an teaches about Isa. That might be some common ground for a discussion.
“All day I think about it, then at night I say it. Where did I come from, and what am I supposed to be doing? I have no idea. My soul is from elsewhere, I'm sure of that, and I intend to end up there.”
Its been over a year since any Jehovas Witnesses knocked on my door. We had some rather interesting conversations on topics of scriptures, society, faith, morality, theology, salvation and corruption. They would usually come in twos, sometimes one, sometimes a small group. I wouldn't have a clue why they stopped coming, though their absence seems to have coincided with the recession.
As has already been mentioned, you can not use the same arguments as refutations about JWs as you would use to refute Christianity. They believe so much different that many if not most Christians do not view them as being Christian.
They are one of the newer cults having been founded in 1872 by Charles Taze Russell. They do use a Bible version that is considerably different than any other. They do not believe in the existence of the soul. They do not believe there is a hell and they believe heaven is already filled. they believe heaven only had room for 144,000 people and those 144,000 are already there. They believe that after the final judgment the JWs will be recreated and will live in eternity on a now everlasting earth. their lives will be much the same, everybody will have jobs, food will be plentiful etc. The non- JWs will not be recreated and all memory of them will be erased.
Their primary source of scripture comes from their "Watch Tower" magazine. Apparently according to them revelations are still being handed down and sent only to the "The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society", their official name, and they claim to be God’s prophet on Earth.
They are very anti-Christian, anti-Jew, anti-Muslim, anti-everybody except JWs. Their main means of gaining members is to befriend people, share things with them develop a friendship and then tell them the friendship ends unless the person becomes a JW.
Very difficult group to reach, impossible to reach if you use anything disapproving Christianity, as they already agree that Christianity is false (except for the JWs)
One ploy they use with Christians is they often conduct "Bible Studies" based upon the KJV and slowly point out discrepancies and how the Bible does not support the trinity, all the time proclaiming the bible is the truth. The JWs are not Trinitarian (Maybe they have one good point) but when approaching Christians they will often appear to be so.
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