I personally dont seem to understand why people claim that the Muslim women are being "forced" and "oppressed" to cover their bodies, while a Christian nun is considered "pure" and "pious". If you look at the way a Muslimah covers her body and a Nun covers her body it is the SAME. Every part of the Muslimah's body and the nun body is covered maybe not in the same manner but those parts being the hair, neck, arms, legs,etc. they are covered.
And even in the Christian pics of the Virgin Mary (Maryam), she is covered with a scraf (aka hijab)
I just dont understand nuns and Muslimah both cover so if you are saying that a Muslimah is oppressed because she follows her religion and covers her body then it is only fair that you say a Christian nun is also oppressed because she too is following her religion and covering her body....right?
I am not attacking Christanity I just want people to look and understand that the Nun's and the Muslimah's attire are basically the same. Just because one is Christian and the other Muslim isnt a excuse because both are covered in the same manner and both are following their religion.
With that being said why in society is the Muslimah looked at as oppressed while the Nun isnt? Does that make sense?
firsty, neither the Muslim or Christian woman is oppressed, they both choose to do what they do.
and you're right when you say that (for argument sake) if the Muslim woman is oppressed, then the nun is even more oppressed. in a world which allows and promotes sexual freedom, the nun is not allowed any of that. no sir.
when someone chooses to wear a mini skirt and a tight top, they're expressing their freedom
however if someone chooses to cover themselves up as a Muslim it's oppression.
the propoganda machine aka the media are the one who are propogating this hate. it all comes down to money and power, people only watch and buy the news if there's something unusual on the news, or if there's something which scares them on the news. think about it, a religion of 1 billion+ strong, who hate us and the way we live, who hate our freedom. who hate freedom full stop. who oppress and beat their women, who are allowed multiple wives and who blow themselves up with the promise of even more women in paradise bla bla bla bla bla.
and that is what they're broadcasting, again and again. back when the world wars were going on, everyone knew about wartime propoganda and the effect it has on the psyche. the thing is today the war is still going on but this time it's against us and the propoganda is more advanced this time. how else can you justify the invasion of Islamic countries if you can't paint them as the enemy in the first place? what do you think the reaction would be if the US/UK alliance were to invade tomorrow say, switzerland.
they can't.
if they wanted to, they'd have to paint switzerland as the bad guy first, get everyone on their side and then attack them so everyone will agree that the swiss, the neutral barbarians that they are must die. all the meantime switzerland are sipping on their not too hot and not too cold tea made from ph-neutral ingredients wondering just what the neutral-hell is going on. so switzerland fight to defend their country. and then when the occupational soldiers die, the media continue '10 DEAD IN SWISS SUICIDE ATTACK!!' they're just defending their country. but when swiss soldiers die nothing is said.
the Muslim vs Christian woman dress is just part of that propoganda. think about this:
you own a business. and this business sells i dunno, paper. you are the biggest provider of paper in the world. now, all of a sudden a new paper company turns up, and this paper company is fast taking over the paper business. you have to do something otherwise your company is over, it's finished. so first you compete with them, then when you can't win you use whatever immoral and unethical tactics you can against them. they won't do the same to you because they have standards, they have rules and laws which they won't sell for anything.
the western governments have to do this. they have no choice. otherwise they will lose everything to Islam. and they're doing it and they're suceeding. if you met a random person in the street, it is more likely than not that they have at least one negative stereotype of Islam imprinted in their mind. at least one.
back in the day wars were won and lost with swords, bows and arrows. then guns. then aircraft. now wars are won and lost with a combination of the previous but with the addition of the biggest and most effective weapon - lies through propogation of the media.
when people are scared, they will believe what you tell them to believe
i know the reply is long however the hijab issue is part of something much bigger. dividing and conquering is another tactic for control. keep the faith, Allah is the best of Protectors.
It's all brainwashing to make people hate Islam and think it's a religion of oppression therefore it's justified to attack Islam and people won't care.
“Who said that guidance requires there to be someone accompanying you"
Nuns choose that way of life I suppose, they obviously decide they'd rather be a nun than marry. :S They're like super Christians rather than just ordinary Christian women lol.
wow that was a long post bro ghost lol but I get what you are saying
I just want people to understand that Muslim women choice to wear hijab because we are obeying what Allah(swt) told us to do and not because a man pressed us to wear. Some people fail to understand that and they criticize Muslim women who wear it while they dont criticize nun's.....it's a double standard
but like you said people will belive anything when they are scared
[SIZE=2]I personally dont seem to understand why people claim that the Muslim women are being "forced" and "oppressed" to cover their bodies, while a Christian nun is considered "pure" and "pious". If you look at the way a Muslimah covers her body and a Nun covers her body it is the SAME.
There are several reasons. I'll start with the biggest reason:
1) Ignorance. Most people tend to make assumptions of what life is like for another person by connecting it with something out of their own life. They're used to seeing nuns wearing habits and so think nothing of it. But it is new to many people to see other women dressed differently than themselves. They can't imagine that anyone would actually choose to do so, so they imagine something different, that they were forced to do so. They are ignorant of the real reason and so invent a reason of their own -- "the only way I would ever dress like that is if I was forced into it."
2) Spurious reports. This is really a different type of ignorance. Information is received in which it is reported that Muslim women are "forced" to wear the veil. Then women are shown in that same report dressed that way, and it is taken as confirmation. This despite the fact that no women is actually asked if she would rather not wear it. In other words, the fear of oppressively forcing this on others is fed, but the fear is based on an untested hypothesis, which may in fact not be true at all.
3) The reality of social pressure. These come in many varieties. I know of Muslims women who, as a rule don't wear the veil, but feel obliged to in certain circumstanes. Likewise there are even non-Muslim women who we have seen have in certain circumstances felt obliged to wear a veil. In most of these question there was no force involved, there was just the pressure of comforming to social customs. But for people from western cultures that put a high value on individual liberty, even social pressure can be seen (rightly or wrongly) as a type of oppression.
4) Confirmed reports. While not the rule, there are instances where women who had not sought to cover their heads were forced to do so. To refuse and to resist was to put one's self at risk of consequences as simple as being asked to leave to as severe as imprisonment. It doesn't matter how rare such incidents are, bring Islamaphobia in to play at the same time and a single event can be projected to apply across the board.
----edit----
Let me add to the above. You should also relax. Most know that outside of a few isolated places that Muslims women choose to dress as they dress. And we know that Muslim women are no more oppressed in that regard than are nuns who choose to wear a habit.
Last edited by Grace Seeker; 09-22-2010 at 09:11 PM.
This is an interesting comparison that I hadn't really thought of before. I can definitely see a similarity in the modest dress of nuns and muslimahs.
It's worth pointing out, though, that not everybody thinks of nuns as being simply "pure" and "pious". Some people think nuns are crazy for living the way they do; some people think they are losers who could not cope in the real world, and I'm sure there are lots of other opinions too. My partner went to a school staffed by nuns, and, while she is still a Christian today, she has strong memories of some formidable nuns who certainly didn't seem very "pious" at the time.
I think one reason people don't seem to think of nuns as being oppressed is that they have chosen the life the lead, just as muslimahs are meant to choose to dress in a modest way in accordance with the Islamic teachings.
I personally dont seem to understand why people claim that the Muslim women are being "forced" and "oppressed" to cover their bodies, while a Christian nun is considered "pure" and "pious".
Its as if looking at the argument we might have had during our young stages of life with some friends that "My Father is better than your Father". Likewise this argument comes up.
If you look at the way a Muslimah covers her body and a Nun covers her body it is the SAME. Every part of the Muslimah's body and the nun body is covered maybe not in the same manner but those parts being the hair, neck, arms, legs,etc. they are covered.
And even in the Christian pics of the Virgin Mary (Maryam), she is covered with a scraf (aka hijab)
Some people don't look at it like that,unfortunately.
I just dont understand nuns and Muslimah both cover so if you are saying that a Muslimah is oppressed because she follows her religion and covers her body then it is only fair that you say a Christian nun is also oppressed because she too is following her religion and covering her body....right?
Correct.
I am not attacking Christanity I just want people to look and understand that the Nun's and the Muslimah's attire are basically the same. Just because one is Christian and the other Muslim isnt a excuse because both are covered in the same manner and both are following their religion.
Correct.
With that being said why in society is the Muslimah looked at as oppressed while the Nun isnt? Does that make sense?
Could it be that a Nun chooses to devote herself into her religion while a Muslimah is ordered by Allaah?Some Christians might give that as an answer.
Could it be that a Nun chooses to devote herself into her religion while a Muslimah is ordered by Allaah?Some Christians might give that as an answer.
The Muslimah also chooses to devote herself to Allah. She also chooses to devote herself into her religion, this is the reason she dresses the way she does. The exact same reason why the nuns do what they do. They both do the same thing for the same reasons.
Not many people understand this which is why we have the double standard, also see the post up above by Grace Seeker.
The Muslimah also chooses to devote herself to Allah. She also chooses to devote herself into her religion, this is the reason she dresses the way she does. The exact same reason why the nuns do what they do. They both do the same thing for the same reasons.
Not many people understand this which is why we have the double standard, also see the post up above by Grace Seeker.
But does the God that Christians believe in command all Christian Women to dedicate themselves as Nuns?(even I don't know,do they?).
ALL nuns don't cover themselves up. There are nuns of some denominations who don't.
There are many reasons a nun cannot be compared with a Muslimah and why it is easy for Christians to justify that we are oppressed and nuns aren't.
Nuns know what they are getting into when they choose their lifestyle. And it is CHOICE.
All Christian women are not required to become nuns and cover themselves up. They choose to become one when they grow up. Muslimahs are born into the religion and have to follow the rules of dress with no exceptions.
Muslimahs have no choice when it comes to dress code, but christian women do.
They are also many el-stupido Muslimahs out there who love to tell the world that it is their choice how they want to dress. This makes the rest of look oppressed.
Non Muslims in general believe that the Afghani Burkha made famous by the Taliban nut cases is the dress code for Muslimahs. (I think the Taliban believe that too).
“Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious. " (16:125)
Rasulullah said, “Anyone who conceals (the defects of) a Muslim, Allah will conceal them (their defects) in this world and in the Hereafter.”
But does the God that Christians believe in command all Christian Women to dedicate themselves as Nuns?(even I don't know,do they?).
No. This is a choice that nuns make, and not even all nuns dress in the traditional black and white habit. Many orders of nuns dress in simple but modest clothing that can be bought right off the rack. By their dress alone you would never know that they were a nun.
But does the God that Christians believe in command all Christian Women to dedicate themselves as Nuns?(even I don't know,do they?).
Heehee no, because in a couple of generation there'd be no Christians at all. :P
format_quote Originally Posted by manaal
[*] Non Muslims in general believe that the Afghani Burkha made famous by the Taliban nut cases is the dress code for Muslimahs. (I think the Taliban believe that too).[/LIST]
That's the thing, I think people see the situation for women in Afghanistan and apply it to all Muslims.
I don't think of hijabis or nuns as oppressed - assuming that they have chosen their way of life willingly and joyfully. Both, I guess, should do so for one reason only - to serve and love God!
That's not to say there there might not be some hijabis and nuns who are forced or coerced to lead the life they lead and dress the way they do.
Personally, I think those women are in the minority - but if any exist, then I would call them oppressed!
Basically, we would have to know each individual case to know for sure.
To call all hijabis oppressed and all nuns not, or vice verse, would be silly and naive.
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
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