Hi, I am a white, educated Western guy starting to learn more and more about Islam after I have seen through the ridiculous stereotyping that exists in our media. I used to oppose Islam, without knowing much about it other than the stories of repression, wife-beating, 'sharia' law and terrorism that persist in the West. I decided to learn more and learn about Islam and the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) for myself and I see the beauty of the religion and how mislead we are about Islam. When I apply the same standards of criticism to my own society, I saw that my belief about Islam were misguided and caricatured. However, there are many things stopping me saying my Shahada, I am a rationalist (shame there aren't many Mu'tazili around!) and find the concept of faith difficult. I believe in a Creator through reason, not faith (cosmological argument and argument from design) - making the leap to accepting a revealed religion will be difficult. I am also a strong supporter of Israel, not necessarily its current policies but definitely in its right to exist - I know that puts me at odds with most Muslims, though not all (Sheikh Hadi Palazzi for instance). Anyway, whether or not I end up reverting or not, my views on Islam have been changed forever, I see its beautiful, reverential, peaceful tradition and I look forward to learning more here. Salaam.
Welcome to the forum, glad to see you have learnt the truth about Islaam and not some fake claims from the unknowledgeable and ignorant!
If you have any Questions regarding any issue feel free to ask here and we shall all try our very best to answer.
May you benefit yourself on this forum and also have a wonderful stay
Peace
"Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), Al-Hayyul-Qayyum (the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists).".."[Al Qur'aan 3:2]
Hi, I am a white, educated Western guy starting to learn more and more about Islam after I have seen through the ridiculous stereotyping that exists in our media. I used to oppose Islam, without knowing much about it other than the stories of repression, wife-beating, 'sharia' law and terrorism that persist in the West. I decided to learn more and learn about Islam and the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) for myself and I see the beauty of the religion and how mislead we are about Islam. When I apply the same standards of criticism to my own society, I saw that my belief about Islam were misguided and caricatured.
Hi and welcome to the forum, glad to here you've learnt some positive things about islam. Can I ask what is your religious background?
However, there are many things stopping me saying my Shahada, I am a rationalist (shame there aren't many Mu'tazili around!) and find the concept of faith difficult. I believe in a Creator through reason, not faith (cosmological argument and argument from design) - making the leap to accepting a revealed religion will be difficult.
Not a problem, islam requires you to use faith and reason/logic to accept certain beliefs. What I'd advise at this point is reading a english translation of the Quran, prefferebly by pickthall or yusuf ali, you'll see how the Al-Mighty will challenge you or make you ponder in certain verses. You can get a free translation from here http://www.idci.co.uk/home.php
I am also a strong supporter of Israel, not necessarily its current policies but definitely in its right to exist - I know that puts me at odds with most Muslims, though not all (Sheikh Hadi Palazzi for instance). Anyway, whether or not I end up reverting or not, my views on Islam have been changed forever, I see its beautiful, reverential, peaceful tradition and I look forward to learning more here. Salaam.
I hope then you also support the muslims over there having the right to exist
He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}] www.QuranicAudio.com www.Quran.com
Hi, I am a white, educated Western guy starting to learn more and more about Islam after I have seen through the ridiculous stereotyping that exists in our media. I used to oppose Islam, without knowing much about it other than the stories of repression, wife-beating, 'sharia' law and terrorism that persist in the West. I decided to learn more and learn about Islam and the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) for myself and I see the beauty of the religion and how mislead we are about Islam. When I apply the same standards of criticism to my own society, I saw that my belief about Islam were misguided and caricatured. However, there are many things stopping me saying my Shahada, I am a rationalist (shame there aren't many Mu'tazili around!) and find the concept of faith difficult. I believe in a Creator through reason, not faith (cosmological argument and argument from design) - making the leap to accepting a revealed religion will be difficult. I am also a strong supporter of Israel, not necessarily its current policies but definitely in its right to exist - I know that puts me at odds with most Muslims, though not all (Sheikh Hadi Palazzi for instance). Anyway, whether or not I end up reverting or not, my views on Islam have been changed forever, I see its beautiful, reverential, peaceful tradition and I look forward to learning more here. Salaam.
as a uneducated western white guy who used to be a supporter of Israel, who held many opinions similar to yours, i guess i throw down the challenge to you in
regards to:
1) Tawhid. i would venture to say that TRUE Tawheed, is VERY rational and that ONLY TRUE Tawheed, as defined by Taheed Ar Rubbuubeeyah, Tawheed Al Asma wa Sifaat and Tawheed al Ibaadah makes perfect sense.
2) once you are convinced of a creator, does anything but Tawheed make sense, as any other option would leave you with creators.
3) not everything about the Mu'tazili IS rational.
for Tahweed, i recommend DR Bilal Philipès course on the Foundation of Islamic Studies found here:
what part of future Chinese satellite do you live in
Had the non-believer known of all the Mercy which is in the Hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known of all the punishment which is present with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hell-Fire http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Downloads.html
I hope you have and enjoyable and beneficial stay!
And may Allah SWT guide you to the straight path and give you strength to follow His guidance. Amiin
3) not everything about the Mu'tazili IS rational.
I have to agree here. On the surface the view of mu'tazila being strict afherents to rationality might be true. However, when you dig deeper I think the view of ahlusunnah wal jam'a makes the most sense (where you realize that certain things are beyond the realms of the mind or thinking although they don't contradict). This is only my personal humble view.
Faith will sink when your heart starts moving (in arabic Qalb), you need to undersatnd the language of the heart, this will isa(God willing) come eventually by practising the religion and reading the Qur'an
However, there are many things stopping me saying my Shahada, I am a rationalist (shame there aren't many Mu'tazili around!) and find the concept of faith difficult. I believe in a Creator through reason, not faith (cosmological argument and argument from design) - making the leap to accepting a revealed religion will be difficult.
Why? The Koran makes those very same arguments itself. Is there anything specific in our doctrine that you find irrational or are you just one of those people who defines faith falsely as something inherently irrational itself?
I am also a strong supporter of Israel, not necessarily its current policies but definitely in its right to exist - I know that puts me at odds with most Muslims, though not all (Sheikh Hadi Palazzi for instance).
I'm at odds with other Muslims all the time, over many things. Chances are, whatever you believe in, you'll have some serious disagreements with other people who share your viewpoint. Islam is nothing special in that regard.
Anyway, whether or not I end up reverting or not, my views on Islam have been changed forever, I see its beautiful, reverential, peaceful tradition and I look forward to learning more here. Salaam.
Will you let me help you?
Peace be to any prophets I may have mentioned above. Praised and exalted be my Maker, if I have mentioned Him. (Come to think of it praise Him anyway.)
Hi and welcome to the forum, glad to here you've learnt some positive things about islam. Can I ask what is your religious background?
Atheist / agnostic. I was Christened as a formality but never taken to Church.
Not a problem, islam requires you to use faith and reason/logic to accept certain beliefs. What I'd advise at this point is reading a english translation of the Quran, prefferebly by pickthall or yusuf ali, you'll see how the Al-Mighty will challenge you or make you ponder in certain verses.
I have two copies, one a more traditional translation and another in more modern prose.
I hope then you also support the muslims over there having the right to exist
Certainly, though surrounding Arab countries could end their suffering by accepting the refugees into their lands.
1) Tawhid. i would venture to say that TRUE Tawheed, is VERY rational and that ONLY TRUE Tawheed, as defined by Taheed Ar Rubbuubeeyah, Tawheed Al Asma wa Sifaat and Tawheed al Ibaadah makes perfect sense.
2) once you are convinced of a creator, does anything but Tawheed make sense, as any other option would leave you with creators.
3) not everything about the Mu'tazili IS rational.
for Tahweed, i recommend DR Bilal Philipès course on the Foundation of Islamic Studies found here:
for learning about the Prophet, Peace be upon him, i recommend these lectures by Dr Bashar Shala:
Thank you for the information, I will take a look at those.
I am re-reading Karen Armstrong's book about the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), it is a fascinating, honest and respectful book. This book is what made me forget my preconceptions about Islam.
what part of future Chinese satellite do you live in
Why? The Koran makes those very same arguments itself. Is there anything specific in our doctrine that you find irrational or are you just one of those people who defines faith falsely as something inherently irrational itself?
Faith is inherently irrational, as it is not backed by evidence and we are dealing with something that is beyond our comprehension or understanding. Belief in a Creator is rational, but there is no evidence that can confirm one religion to be superior to any other. I think each religion is an attempt to encounter the Divine and some come closer than others - that is why there is "no compulsion" in Islam and also explains Surah 109.
I find Islam to be more rational than Christianity, strict monotheism is more rational than the confused and ill-defined concept of the Trinity.
I'm at odds with other Muslims all the time, over many things. Chances are, whatever you believe in, you'll have some serious disagreements with other people who share your viewpoint. Islam is nothing special in that regard.
I'm at odds with other Muslims all the time, over many things. Chances are, whatever you believe in, you'll have some serious disagreements with other people who share your viewpoint. Islam is nothing special in that regard.
I understand what you are saying, but anti-semitism is a problem in Islam at the moment, though it is a relatively new phenomenon (Christian Europe was much worse for the Jews in history).
It is upsetting to see racial stereotypes about Jews from Europe being produced in Muslim coutntries. I suspect it is a political and cultural issue, but worry that it is a religious issue as Muslims are using the Qur'an to justify it.
I understand what you are saying, but anti-semitism is a problem in Islam at the moment, though it is a relatively new phenomenon (Christian Europe was much worse for the Jews in history).
It is upsetting to see racial stereotypes about Jews from Europe being produced in Muslim coutntries. I suspect it is a political and cultural issue, but worry that it is a religious issue as Muslims are using the Qur'an to justify it.
True, but the Qur'an also differentiates between disobedient jews and jews who obeyed Allah's commands
and now a days muslims know the differences between zionist jews and non-zionist jews
He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers. [Quran {33:43}] www.QuranicAudio.com www.Quran.com
I understand what you are saying, but anti-semitism is a problem in Islam at the moment, though it is a relatively new phenomenon (Christian Europe was much worse for the Jews in history).
It is upsetting to see racial stereotypes about Jews from Europe being produced in Muslim coutntries. I suspect it is a political and cultural issue, but worry that it is a religious issue as Muslims are using the Qur'an to justify it.
Welcome to the forums,
Most of us are not Jew haters. However we are very much haters of Zionism. What you often see being portrayed as anti-Semitism is anti-Zionism. We are not the only haters of Zionism, many Orthodox Jews also do. Zionism did not rear it's ugly head until the late 1800s and was not threat until 1947. Until the rise of Zionism there had been many centuries of peaceful co-existence between Muslims and Jews
I understand what you are saying, but anti-semitism is a problem in Islam at the moment, though it is a relatively new phenomenon (Christian Europe was much worse for the Jews in history).
The treatment of the Jews in the Middle East from what I've heard, was a lot better than compared to Europe. In Palestine, Jews, Christians and Muslims lived together peacefully.
It is upsetting to see racial stereotypes about Jews from Europe being produced in Muslim coutntries. I suspect it is a political and cultural issue,
Yes, many Muslims have failed to make a distinction between Judaism and Zionism. Judaism is a religion while Zionism is a nationalistic ideology. From orthodox Jews perspective, Zionism is not compatible with Judaism. There are many Muslims against Zionism, however this does not mean we hate Jews.
but worry that it is a religious issue as Muslims are using the Qur'an to justify it.
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Sign Up
to the forum..
Hide
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks