Over pc-ness

[LauraS]

Eid Mubarak, hope you're having fun lol sorry if it's a bit late

What do you think about how politically correct things are? Because obviously it's all intended not to offend other cultures, but I'm quite sure other religions/cultures wouldn't even get offended by the rubbish do-gooders are coming up with. For example red cross shops being made to take down Christmas trees and the word Chritmas being changed to "winterfest" in a village.

Like: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...=feeds-newsxml

Mind you, one customer did complain about the pig, but I imagine that must be rare because it is a bit over-sensitive.

The Early Learning Centre have now changed their minds about the pig I think. Also why exactly is the pig considered such a bad thing, when God made them?

[IAmZamzam]

Political correctness is one of the lesser in grievousness yet more absurd ills of our age. It gets people hung up on labels and it chooses the irrational and the presumptuous over the proper and calls these things “proper” just so as to cater to people’s unreasonable emotional responses to certain words. (It just now struck me that this is also a perfect description of the problem with the concept of there being such things as curse words.) A good example of this would be the term “Oriental”. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the term whatsoever: its actual literal meaning is “eastern” and it’s describing a people from the Far East. And yet because a lot of people had a bad taste left in their mouth after hearing people speaking of “Orientals” in a racist way during a racist age, and were too stupid or oblivious to recognize that the word itself was not a slur, now you have to call them all “Asian-Americans”, even though most of them are not American and any number of Asian peoples are not Oriental, including Siberians, Russians, Indians, and Pakistanis, to name just a few.

Political correctness is, however, just one tentacle of the beast that is the real problem—that we are living in an age when being hyper-focused on minutiae and too fond of euphemism is considered “progressive”, and anybody who tries to look at the big picture instead is primitive. Which is true in a way given that if there ever was any pragmatism in our species then it fell by the wayside a long time ago.

[GuestFellow]

When I first read the topic title, I thought it was going to be about members addicted to the PC or something along those lines.

I think political correctness can be useful to avoid offending those of different religions and cultures. However, I think in this particular case, both sides are just as bad.

There was no need to remove the pig in the first place to please customers. Those customers can buy something else. It is not as though they were forced to buy that farm set.

Then there are customers who are upset that the pig is missing. In my opinion, it's silly to get upset over the missing pig as well. Go to another shop and find another farm set with a pig in it. However, I think the underlying issue was that the pig was removed because not to upset Jewish and Muslim customers.

In life, there are much more serious issues to complain about, rather than whether a pig should be part of a farm set or not. I am more annoyed at the fact that mail online has even bothered to post such a trivial issue.

In addition...

Early Learning Centre bans toy pig from farmyard set for fear of offending Muslims

I think I know why.

[Raaina]

Laura,

Pc ness, has gone mad in this country.

The word "Christmas" has completely lost the meaning in the UK. Before I became muslim, I was christianed at birth and from the age of 11 or 12 I never went to church, not even for christmas. You speak to children now in the UK, infact speak to people my age and if asked what is the meaning of christmas, what do you think they would say? I'm sure most of them would say, "Well I know it's a christian celebration, but i'm not really religious." Yet, they will still celebrate "christmas". Maybe, for the sake of their children or because it is the time of year where most people in the UK are off from work and can meet up with their families.

The word "Winter festival" covers a range of holidays during the winter season, including Christmas, Yule,Hanukkah, diwali and maybe even eid. However, in my personal view, no one should be made to take down christmas trees and if they want to use the word Christmas still, I see nothing wrong with that. I'm sure no one is made to remove christmas trees, you see many many shops displaying christmas trees.

During university, I had many pagan friends and they would complain about seeing the word "Christmas" on everything around this time of year. As they celebrate Yule on the 21st December, many of them didn't want to send christmas cards out, but yule cards and they were annoyed that there was little choice available to them considering Paganism was a religion that pre-dated Christianity, they felt it was their "right" lets say, to be able to buy yule cards and not just christmas cards. Can't say my muslim friends were even bothered.

[Raaina]

Why doesn't the title state "Early learning centre bans toy pig from farmyard set for fear of offending muslims and jews" as it states in the actual article.
Nothing like trying to make a quick profit with selected wording to draw attention to those midless customers who fall for that trap.

[GuestFellow]

Why doesn't the title state "Early learning centre bans toy pig from farmyard set for fear of offending muslims and jews" as it states in the actual article.
Nothing like trying to make a quick profit with selected wording to draw attention to those midless customers who fall for that trap.

Possibly to attract readers.

[Raaina]

Possibly to attract readers.

Possibly to attract a reaction from anti muslim readers.

[glo]

Rather than speculating about what the OP's intentions are, I would be interested to hear what Muslim members her make of this story.

Would you be offended by a pig appearing in a children's farm set?
If you bought a set, would you remove the pig?
Or do you think a pig is a farm animal, therefore it's okay to have one in a farm set?

And picking up from the OP's last sentence, is a pig (according to Islamic teaching) unclean per se, or is it just haraam to eat it?

[aadil77]

Rather than speculating about what the OP's intentions are, I would be interested to hear what Muslim members her make of this story.

Would you be offended by a pig appearing in a children's farm set?
If you bought a set, would you remove the pig?
Or do you think a pig is a farm animal, therefore it's okay to have one in a farm set?

And picking up from the OP's last sentence, is a pig (according to Islamic teaching) unclean per se, or is it just haraam to eat it?

Its nothing offensive, anyone who finds it offensive is being over sensitive

nothing wrong in having a toy animal - it might not be halal to eat in real life, but we're not forbidden to play with them

[sister herb]

And picking up from the OP's last sentence, is a pig (according to Islamic teaching) unclean per se, or is it just haraam to eat it?

I don´t know how some animal could be forbidden when it just exist as creature (and as we know, Allah has created it too).

[IAmZamzam]

What exactly is the idea here? That we supposedly regard pigs as Hindus regard cows? Or perhaps the opposite, and they're somehow inherently evil? We're not allowed to eat their meat: other than that, I don't think the scriptures say anything about the animals at all.

[Dagless]

[IAmZamzam]

^^^^^^ Now that's what I'm talkin' 'bout! ^^^^^^^^^^

[جوري]

Rather than speculating about what the OP's intentions are, I would be interested to hear what Muslim members her make of this story.

Would you be offended by a pig appearing in a children's farm set?
If you bought a set, would you remove the pig?
Or do you think a pig is a farm animal, therefore it's okay to have one in a farm set?

And picking up from the OP's last sentence, is a pig (according to Islamic teaching) unclean per se, or is it just haraam to eat it?

When you market any product at a particular audience you should ensure to be a product that will sell. If I purchased a toy Australia I'd expect it to have Australian animals Kangaroos might be popular there but if I am marketing to someone from Bahrain then it might not be particularly popular..

There is always going to be something offensive to someone.. The Japanese eat kangaroo sashimi -- Thinly-sliced raw kangaroo and

• cabeza de cabrito (goat's head) is served in Mexico - Head cut down the middle where you eat the cooked brains directly out of the brain cavities. The tongue, sticking out of the mouth, is cut out with a knife and also eaten. Actually had this culinary delight twice. Machine with blade saw at the side of the restaurant makes you think twice how the cook prepares this dish.

Aren't they all created by God, would you raw Kangaroo or Goat's head with tongue out? God created them after all.

If you find that unpalatable then it isn't inconceivable that others find pigs unpalatable as well.. not everything in creation is meant for our consumption or even companionship.. Do you feel equally inquisitive or bad that we aren't all hanging out with a Goliath tigerfish in our tanks or on our plates?

a little common sense goes along way believe me. Not every farm in the world has to include a Pig, I personally wouldn't buy it in the form of a toy.. if the company were aiming the toy at christian kids and they're ok with profit losses then so be it.. If they want to target others then a more appropriate set of toys might be best!

[Ramadhan]

And picking up from the OP's last sentence, is a pig (according to Islamic teaching) unclean per se, or is it just haraam to eat it

I'm not sure what you mean by unclean, but I think farm animals including cows, goats, pigs, chicken are unclean, right Glo?
Actually, all animals are unclean, unless they are one of those pets owned by super rich people who take their animals to salon, bath and shampoo them everyday, brush their teeth, build them specific animal toilets and dress them in tailored clothing and jewelleries. And even then, I'm not sure they are that clean. They don't wash themselves after going to the toilet, do they?

Oh and yes, pigs are haram to eat, even Jesus found it haram to eat.
By the way, Jesus never ate pig all his life, and neither did his disciples. Jesus even sent a demon into thousands pigs, sending them into violent death.

Also I found this little gem in the scripture that Jesus believed in and taught:

Deuteronomy 14:18
Also, you may not eat pigs. (Although their hoofs are divided, they don't chew their cud.) Never eat their meat or touch their dead bodies.

[glo]

I'm not sure what you mean by unclean, but I think farm animals including cows, goats, pigs, chicken are unclean, right Glo?
Actually, all animals are unclean, unless they are one of those pets owned by super rich people who take their animals to salon, bath and shampoo them everyday, brush their teeth, build them specific animal toilets and dress them in tailored clothing and jewelleries. And even then, I'm not sure they are that clean. They don't wash themselves after going to the toilet, do they?

Oh and yes, pigs are haram to eat, even Jesus found it haram to eat.
By the way, Jesus never ate pig all his life, and neither did his disciples. Jesus even sent a demon into thousands pigs, sending them into violent death.

Hi naidamar

Perhaps 'unclean' wasn't a good word to use. I didn't mean 'unclean' as in 'dirty' (of course all farm animals are dirty), but as in 'haram'.

I understand completely that Muslims are not permitted to eat pork, but does that mean it is also haram to own or keep pigs?
I seem to remember reading a thread about this quite a while ago. Somebody - it may have been Woodrow - mentioned that he had considered keeping pigs, but was not sure if it was permitted.

Along similar lines, can Muslims use other pig products, such as leather? Or is that haram too?

[Ramadhan]

I understand completely that Muslims are not permitted to eat pork, but does that mean it is also haram to own or keep pigs?
I seem to remember reading a thread about this quite a while ago. Somebody - it may have been Woodrow - mentioned that he had considered keeping pigs, but was not sure if it was permitted.

Along similar lines, can Muslims use other pig products, such as leather? Or is that haram too?

I think there are two different opinions as to whether it is permitted to use tanned pig leather/skin.
The more conservative one says it is haram, while the second one is makrooh (there is no sin in doing it, but more preferred to not do it). The opinion that says it is allowed based it on

Forbidden to you (for food) are dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine) (Al-Ma'idah 5:3)

and

Malik related to me from Zayd ibn Aslam from Ibn Wala al-Misri from Abdullah ibn Abbas that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "A skin when it is tanned is pure."

and

Narrated: Abdullah bin Abbas
Once Allah's Apostle passed by a dead sheep and said to the people, "Wouldn't you benefit by its skin?" The people replied that it was dead. The Prophet said, "But its eating only is illegal."
(HR. Bukhari)

I personally try to avoid using pig products in any form, in order to be on the safe side. As the Prophet SAW said “Whoever avoids doubtful matters, that will be better for his religious commitment and his honour.” And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) also said, “Leave that which makes you doubt for that which does not make you doubt.”

[aamirsaab]

PC has turned everyone into pussies.

Also, I'm not offended by a pig. Nor a toy pig for that matter. In fact, I think I will go buy my baby cousins a toy farm-set (possibly this one advertised in the link) that specifically has a pig.

But I will never eat a pig.

[LauraS]

Yuhya Sulaiman- I know what you mean about races, apparently mixed race is no longer politcally correct and you have to call people duel heritage. Which just sounds slightly daft. The worst is not being allowed to say "blackboard" in case it offends black people. How?! What if I decided I got offended by whiteboard?

Professor Sunday- To be fair the article talks about offending both Muslims and Jews. Issues of political correctness are raised often because it's something annoying everyone at the moment.

Raaina- I don't think I know any pagan people, I watched a programme about them celebrating during Halloween. I suppose Christmas is a bigger thing than the yule festival. I could the thread what I did because the article was just an example.

the vale's lilly- I doubt they were just aiming at Christian kids, just kids in general and as pigs are a sterotypical farmyard animal it was just naturally included. I don't know about raw kangaroo but I wouldn't eat raw pig either. I was just wondering what it is about the pig that makes it forbidden to eat.

naidamar- Why was it necessary to kill all those pigs?!

[جوري]

the vale's lilly- I doubt they were just aiming at Christian kids, just kids in general and as pigs are a sterotypical farmyard animal it was just naturally included. I don't know about raw kangaroo but I wouldn't eat raw pig either. I was just wondering what it is about the pig that makes it forbidden to eat.

what is it about a goat's brain and tongue that is forbidden to eat?
There need not be any reason other than God made it an injunction.

if you are looking for specific scientific reasons why pigs aren't meant for our consumption than that has already been covered on this forum ad infinitum.

all the best