Saudi school lessons in UK concern government

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Another documentary on the subject of Muslims living in UK. This time its about Islamic education (again)

The government says it will not tolerate anti-Semitic and homophobic lessons being taught to Muslim children in the UK.

BBC Panorama found that more than 40 Saudi Students' Schools and Clubs are teaching the official Saudi national curriculum to about 5,000 pupils.

One text book shows how the hands and feet of thieves are chopped off.

The Saudi government said it had no official ties to the part-time schools and clubs and did not endorse them.

However, a building in west London where Panorama obtained one of the text books is owned by the Saudi government.

The director of education for the Saudi Students' Schools and Clubs said the Saudi Cultural Bureau, which is part of the embassy, had authority over the network.

'Hellfire'

Education Secretary Michael Gove said there was no place for the Saudi teachings with regard to Jews or homosexuals in Britain: "To my mind it doesn't seem to me that this is the sort of material that should be used in English schools."

He said in light of the BBC's findings, the school inspectorate Ofsted was looking into the possible regulation and inspection of out-of-hours schools and clubs. At present, part-time schools do not fall within Ofsted's mandate.

"Ofsted are doing some work in this area, they'll be reporting to me shortly about how we can ensure that part-time provision is better registered and better inspected in the future," Mr Gove said.

One of the text books asks children to list the "reprehensible" qualities of Jewish people. A text for younger children asks what happens to someone who dies who is not a believer in Islam - the answer given in the text book is "hellfire".

Another text describes the punishment for gay sex as death and states a difference of opinion about whether it should be carried out by stoning, burning with fire or throwing the person over a cliff.

In a book for 14-year-olds, Sharia law and its punishment for theft are explained, including detailed diagrams about how hands and feet of thieves are amputated.

'Out of context'

In a written response, the Saudi embassy said such materials were often taken out of context and often referred to historical descriptions.

But Neal Robinson, an expert in the Koran, said the context in which the materials are presented comes with risks.

"To present it cold, as it seems to be here, just part of the teaching of Islam, no it's not wise. In the wrong hands I think it is... ammunition for anti-Semitism."

The use of these materials in Britain comes three years after a BBC investigation found a Saudi-funded school in west London was using texts that referred to Jewish people and Christians in derogatory terms. That prompted assurances at the highest diplomatic levels that the materials would be removed.

Panorama has also found evidence of extreme views on some private, full-time Muslim school websites, including messages that state: "Our children are exposed to a culture that is in opposition to almost everything Islam stands for" and "We need to defend our children from the forces of evil".

MP Barry Sheerman, former Labour chairman of the Children, Schools and Families parliamentary committee, said politicians had avoided the issue of controversial teachings in some Muslim schools.

"There are some very good Muslim schools but there are some Muslim schools that give me great cause for concern that is often around the ethos of the schools, the focus of the school and the kind of ideology that is concerning."

Dr Usama Hasan, an Islamic scholar and part-time imam in east London, warned of the dangers of segregating young Muslims in Britain, particularly the seminaries where the next generation of imams are being educated.

"They don't interact with people who are not Muslim... they don't learn the ingredients of the western world, so it's very easy for them to read the medieval texts which were written at a time when Islam was under attack and say non-believers are our enemies and we have to fight them."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11799713

What do you guys think?

[Ramadhan]

What do you guys think?

Think?
I couldn't think.
I was laughing throughout the article at all the gems uttered by the so-called 'education minister"

[أحمد]

I think the ignorance minister failed to understand the context; the system's a mess because of such ignorant "ministers". They spend too long taking passages out of context; to spread hatred, than to do anything useful for education.

[GuestFellow]

One text book shows how the hands and feet of thieves are chopped off.

So?

A text for younger children asks what happens to someone who dies who is not a believer in Islam - the answer given in the text book is "hellfire".

So? I knew this since I was six.

Another text describes the punishment for gay sex as death and states a difference of opinion about whether it should be carried out by stoning, burning with fire or throwing the person over a cliff.

Can anyone confirm this?

But Neal Robinson, an expert in the Koran, said the context in which the materials are presented comes with risks.

What expert? I never even heard of him. Of all experts, they selected him?

[glo]

The half-hour programme can be watched (at least by people in the UK) on the BBC iplayer.

I found it quite balanced and not anti-Islamic schools per se, indeed it showed some Islamic schools in a very positive light.

[manaal]

Panorama has also found evidence of extreme views on some private, full-time Muslim school websites, including messages that state: "Our children are exposed to a culture that is in opposition to almost everything Islam stands for" and "We need to defend our children from the forces of evil".

They call this extreme? And Gay Marriages are not?

[S_87]

it was clutching at straws. i bet they couldnt investigate a jewish school teaching jewish scriptures, oh no that would be anti semitic. but a muslim school-thats ok? and the average non muslim aint gonna know any different.

[purple]

The Jewish schools did not let them in. They tried to access it but couldn’t even access it. The problem is with us, we let them in. And some of which the books are worded is worrying especially the women have to be confined to their homes. Also why was there a diagram of where the hands were to be cut? I don’t understand, unless the children are being taught to cut hands, I don’t see the point of it. And the reprehensible characteristics of Jew part is extremely worrying. Not all Jews are bad.
This is only few schools they went to, not all Islamic schools are like this. I know personally, the mosque that teaches my child is very good.

[أحمد]

The problem is, whenever the media or politicians discuss "information" they've stumbled upon; they automatically attribute it to Islam, and within a certain narrow definition, which they or others have cooked up in their own minds.

Islam teaches justice; not to go around chopping hands and feet over a missing piece of bread. Rights, duties and limits are all set in place.

[Ramadhan]

The "education" minister needs to be educated about Islam.
This is a responsibility that Imams or Muslim associations in UK need to take up.

[GuestFellow]

^ I doubt the Imams will want to get involved. However, whether they do or not will not make much of a difference because the mainstream media is not interested.

As for the documentary, it is not bad, however it does not reveal the full picture either. I wouldn't say it is anti-Islam.

[~Raindrop~]

True^^

When our local Masjid was branded the 'Taliban Mosque' by CNN, the media were pretty interested. Now that the Home Office have investigated, seen that there's nothing untoward apart from the fact that most people in the locality originate from the Pak-Afghan border (thus the only link) and there isn't anything going on (they even send invites for the youth to visit the Houses of Parliament lol) CNN conveniently forgot to mention that.

No matter how much the righteous Ulama speak out, they're ignored by the mainstream media.

[manaal]

You know, I have seen a school textbook on British History that contains graphical pictures of how people were punished for either high treason, witch craft or being Catholic.... can;t recall which. This was a textbook for 6th graders. There was one I remeber very well of people with a spears through their bodies! These are OK then?

[glo]

You know, I have seen a school textbook on British History that contains graphical pictures of how people were punished for either high treason, witch craft or being Catholic.... can;t recall which. This was a textbook for 6th graders. There was one I remeber very well of people with a spears through their bodies! These are OK then?

Manaal, I suppose the difference is that those text books don't intend to teach children that those practices were good and correct. These are not instruction books of how to punish witches, Catholics or traitors!
Instead they intend to teach children about the horrific mistakes and crimes which people have condoned and committed over the course of history, and surely set out to teach that we must learn from our past and not to allow such things again!

But I agree with you that graphic depictions can be harmful and are not usually necessary or beneficial.

[IslamicRevival]

Although im not a big fan of the Saudis and their ideology, this is another an attack on Islam by the zionist controlled BBC.

Sallu Alal Habeeb, Sallahu Ta'Ala Ala Muhammad.

[GuestFellow]

Although im not a big fan of the Saudis and their ideology, this is another an attack on Islam by the zionist controlled BBC.

I would not say BBC is controlled by Zionists. The BBC has been critical of Israel.

[IslamicRevival]

I would not say BBC is controlled by Zionists. The BBC has been critical of Israel.

Critical of Israel? I suppose you haven't seen the biased documentary the BBC aired after the Israeli terrorists massacred several people on the Flotilla convoy.

[GuestFellow]

Critical of Israel? I suppose you haven't seen the biased documentary the BBC aired after the Israeli terrorists massacred several people on the Flotilla convoy.

The documentary might have been biased (I never watched it), but that does not mean it is controlled by Zionists. Please, do present evidence to back up your claim that BBC is controlled by Zionists.


Alex Thomson shuts-up Israeli spokesman!

[سيف الله]

Salaam

To say BBC is 'Zionist' is going too far, however the BBC has had a poor record on helping people understand the Israeli-Palestine or even just reporting it. In fact its due to alternative news stories and activism that the BBC has had to improve its reporting.

I mean the Israeli massacre of Gaza, BBC reporting was dire, very poor and really showed the influence of the Israeli lobby + the fact that many in the British establishment supported the destruction of Gaza (to get rid of Hamas) but did voice mild concern when the massacre wasn't going according to plan.

Just two further examples

Go to post #444 and #447

Israeli forces attack aid Gaza aid flotilla, kill activists

There's plenty more.

Troubled Soul, I think is right - there seems to be an effort by certain sections of the British establishment to put Muslims 'under pressure' to submit to 'British' values. Hence the spate of documentary's dealing with the Muslim 'problem' and how they are going to 'integrate' them into society.

Essentially they want to westernise, secularism, maybe even Christianise Islam so it becomes a weak, irrelevant and pointless faith, much like what Christianity has become in Britain (for anybody whose interested check out latest on the the potential break up of the Anglican Church).

We Muslims need to be alert (though not paranoid) about the potential challenges to our culture, values and faith.

Ill talk about this more later when I get some time.

[جوري]

I suppose the difference is that those text books don't intend to teach children that those practices were good and correct. These are not instruction books of how to punish witches, Catholics or traitors!

You sound like the censorship guy who watches porno all day to give parental control rating .. surely doing it for the benefit of the people and not at all because s/he is a perverted hypocrite.

you are just too funny. Reaction formation anyone?