I am starting this thread to keep the thread "What do Non-Muslims want from Muslims" on topic and not breaking down into a debate. Each of us do want and/or expect something from our non-Muslim members.Let us state them here. In the interest of sharing not of fighting.
Somethings I want from our non-Muslim members.
1. Understand how much respect we have for Allaah(swt), Islam, Muhammad(PBUH) and the Holy Qur'an
2. Know we are not really grouchy, but we do have little tolerance for anything that ridicules our belief.
3. Try to understand we are individuals.
4. Understand that some of us have experienced persecution and as a result will be defensive.
5. Not to try to give the Islamic view in answers to any questions by non-Muslims.
6. Understand we are an Islamic forum and one of our goals is to bring reverts to Islam.
I think, in time, you can expect most of those grievances to be respected by non-Muslims. However, something that you probably wouldn't see in the West is the end of religious criticism (which is not ridicule). That is something which is enshrined in secular scholarly and intellectual traditions of the West.
I'm sorry, but most "religious criticism" is pretty much nothing more than ridicule, especially that done by the nonreligious. Not all of it, but way too much not to be an enormous and endless grievance.
Peace be to any prophets I may have mentioned above. Praised and exalted be my Maker, if I have mentioned Him. (Come to think of it praise Him anyway.)
I want non-Muslims to mind their own business, to take their bases, their filth, their debauchery, their illegal wars, their greed, their evangelism, pagan gods, their w hores and the colonial settler state out of Muslim lands.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I'm sorry, but most "religious criticism" is pretty much nothing more than ridicule, especially that done by the nonreligious. Not all of it, but way too much not to be an enormous and endless grievance.
No, sir. An example of ridicule is the Danish cartoons, or the "Everybody Draw Muhammad" Day -- it's meant to simply anger and make fun of people.
Criticism of Islam is an informed discussion and refutation of Islamic theology, whether from a Christian, or Atheistic, or Secular Humanist, or any other, perspective. So, for example, arguing against the idea of a big bang in the Quran, or questioning the morality of certain Quranic teachings.
Criticism of Islam is an informed discussion and refutation of Islamic theology, whether from a Christian, or Atheistic, or Secular Humanist, or any other, perspective. So, for example, arguing against the idea of a big bang in the Quran, or questioning the morality of certain Quranic teachings.
I think you need to define for yourself the term 'refutation' it means a little more than a personal opinion which you are apt at dispensing with-- they're neither evidential nor persuasive!
all the best
Last edited by جوري; 12-04-2010 at 09:31 PM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
No, sir. An example of ridicule is the Danish cartoons, or the "Everybody Draw Muhammad" Day -- it's meant to simply anger and make fun of people.
Those are among the examples. Ridicule doesn't have to be intended as such in order to be ridicule, and not all caricatures are drawn by hand.
Criticism of Islam is an informed discussion and refutation of Islamic theology, whether from a Christian, or Atheistic, or Secular Humanist, or any other, perspective. So, for example, arguing against the idea of a big bang in the Quran, or questioning the morality of certain Quranic teachings.
And as long as that's all they're doing I suppose that's fine. It's often easier to come to the right conclusions when you've seen the wrong ones argued for enough--or it seems that way. But it doesn't matter a great deal whether the Koran says anything about the Big Bang or not, and almost all the "criticisms of the Koran's morality" I've seen are just selective quotations and culturally biased proclamations. There must be people out there who argue ethically and dispassionately, however incorrectly, against Islam (or religion or theism in general, for that matter), but they seem an awful hard breed to find these days.
Peace be to any prophets I may have mentioned above. Praised and exalted be my Maker, if I have mentioned Him. (Come to think of it praise Him anyway.)
I want non-Muslims to mind their own business, to take their bases, their filth, their debauchery, their illegal wars, their greed, their evangelism, pagan gods, their w hores and the colonial settler state out of Muslim lands.
Can't you ever just punch a pillow or something?
Peace be to any prophets I may have mentioned above. Praised and exalted be my Maker, if I have mentioned Him. (Come to think of it praise Him anyway.)
Seriously though, on this forum, what I would appreciate is if non-muslims didn't debate within topics that weren't intended for debate.
For example, say a muslim creates a thread asking for help with the Islamic method of animal slaughter. It would be nice if we didn't have someone butt into it with an uncalled for attack (e.g. 'this is animal cruelty, inhumane!'). Sure, you are entitled to your beliefs but this specific thread is not the place for you to air your grievance.
The respectful thing would be to create a seperate thread in the comparative religion forum and have a dialogue there.
I want non-Muslims to enjoy their time on this forum and relax.
I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.
I want non-Muslims to mind their own business, to take their bases, their filth, their debauchery, their illegal wars, their greed, their evangelism, pagan gods, their w hores and the colonial settler state out of Muslim lands.
Haha, "pagan gods"?? I though those've been gone for a while now. And you need anger management classes.
You weren't speaking to her very civilly either. Perhaps it's time for us all to agree to be more civil.
Peace be to any prophets I may have mentioned above. Praised and exalted be my Maker, if I have mentioned Him. (Come to think of it praise Him anyway.)
Haha, "pagan gods"?? I though those've been gone for a while now. And you need anger management classes.
nope very much in existence..
here goes in flame 'touch down jesus'
I'd take care of your personal needs first, like coherency and common sense before you concentrate what you can muster of effort on what you perceive a need in others!
all the best
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
You weren't speaking to her very civilly either. Perhaps it's time for us all to agree to be more civil.
You mean my reference to anger management classes? Well, sure, I apologize for that; but I was merely pointing out that she needs to calm down. Although she was quite rude to me (and for no injury that I have ever caused her), and I tried my best to keep my response as nicely-put as I could -- I could have said much worse things.
Peace be to any prophets I may have mentioned above. Praised and exalted be my Maker, if I have mentioned Him. (Come to think of it praise Him anyway.)
Yea...Jesus is not considered to be a pagan god. And I'm sure Christians would have to say a lot about your post.
I'd suggest that you come back and write when you've evolved your writing and thought processes a bit-- your writing is puerile your ideas distracting and non-cohesive at best.
1- you misconstrue criticisms of your logic or lack thereof as insulting or rude, while we beg to differ.. perhaps it is your fragile ego that needs maturation rather than requesting others handle what you write with applause if not kid gloves.
2- Christianity can claim to be monotheistic all it wants, they are in fact a poster religion for modern day paganism. they pray before idols that is a material effigywhich is exactly what we have seen with that 'touch down Jesus' and they worship more than one god which is the very definition of paganism.
good luck with the rest!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
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