The harsher you are, the more Islamic you are?

[GuestFellow]

I'm concerned how some Muslims present Islam. There are many good practicing Muslims but sometimes I get worried when they become harsh about sensitive topics. They become judgemental and arrogant.

Like at school, a Muslim guy (practicing) used to be harsh towards Muslim girls that did not wear the Hijab. He described them as ''****s.''

There was a Muslim guy at school who apparently behaved in a feminine manner, I don't think he did it deliberately. However, everyone stayed away from him and gossiped about him, called him gay and dirty. I felt bad for him. :/

Also there was a Muslim Somalian girl who said only Arab and Somalian Muslims are practicing Islam properly and Pakistani/Bangladeshi/Indian/Iranian Muslims were practicing something not Islamic. x_x

I'm just speaking from experience. Has anyone else noticed this? It is like as though some Muslims believe the harsher you are, the more Islamic you are.

So share your views...

[Alpha Dude]

Wa alaykum salam,

I think there are probably two main reasons why people behave in the way you described.

The first is ignorance. Perhaps they don't realise that the message of Islam is for all people and it is a duty to desire for our brethren what we desire for ourselves and, as such, we ought to be guiding (with hikmah) others to the right way. It's fine thinking to ourselves that someone we know is doing a wrong act but no need to judge and punish them.

The next is pride. Thinking low of other people. We need to accept that the little guidance we have is a blessing of Allah upon us and not something we have acheived through our own efforts.

Although with the examples you gave, they're all pretty much based around teen aged kids. To be frank, kids enjoy forming gangs and bullying or putting others down. So that might factor into their behaviour too.

[Ansariyah]

Allah swt continuesly repeats in the Quraan how Prophet mohamed (saw) was sent to perfect manners. This important aspect of Islam called Adaab (manners) is so very often neglected among us Muslims. I really dont understand why! How can anyone speak of the word Allah n use it to mock, emberrass or harrass another. If someone truly wants give someone nasheeha he should do so with gentleness, kindness & respect. When u attack someone, mock them, insult them, do people really think they will take anything good u have to say? I wouldnt. The truth is u are actually chasing them away! Not only do u chase them away from urself, but u are actually chasing them away from the Deen! Imagine how scary that is.

Goood topic btw!=)

[Tyrion]

Although with the examples you gave, they're all pretty much based around teen aged kids. To be frank, kids enjoy forming gangs and bullying or putting others down. So that might factor into their behaviour too.

Nah, this is prevalent even among older Muslims... It might be done in a more subtle way, but its still there. I see it in universities, in masjids, as well as on this forum.

[Endymion]

I think the worst thing about Muslims is that every Muslim try to act like an Aalim,whether they know Islam or not.People know a little about Islam but start teaching others what Islam is.They practice Islam very little but start thinking that only they are Muslims and others are following the wrong path and they need advice and guidance.One should learn Islam properly and then try to correct others.Look down at people,question others faith and think your self superior than others are not the teachings of Islam.I think the people mentioned above got psychological problems and their behavior have nothing to do with the religion of Peace,love and respect.One should leave them like that instead of judging their behavior.This is what i think and do in daily life

[Tyrion]

You seem to have only mentioned cases where Muslims were looking down on or being harsh towards other Muslims, but lets not forget about how some Muslims act toward non Muslims... Sometimes it can get pretty disgusting, whether it's something being said in private, or something said during a dialog...

This particular problem seems to be more prevalent in online communities... (At least, it does from my experience.)

[aamirsaab]

I've noticed this too - there's always one or two overly-aggressive mulah types in every Islamic community. But it's most certainly not true that the harsher you are the more islamic you are.

If and when I encounter such types, I just think to myself noone is perfect and get on with my life. Basically, life is like this: some people hold the door for you; some people slam it in your face. Some people even steal doors...and now I'm going off on one. Did you see what you did, guestfellow, did you see what you did?!

[Perseveranze]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

I think it's Jahiliya, it's apart of Jihad - to get rid of it. In most instances, it kicks in when you don't notice/realise it yourself (emotions get the better of you I guess/aka Satan). Most people to some extent have it unfortunatly... With me, I notice more now that when I see something that really does hit a nerve, before I jump in I almost force myself to just think (not the easiest thing to do I tell ya lol) and to re-plan how I'm going to approach this. If not then Jahiliya just mixes in and influences my actions.

Anyways, think of your Creator, only then will Jahiliya vanish completly. If not, you can bet it'll be gone on judgement day and we don't want to leave it that late now do we?

[Abdul-Raouf]

There are instances in some masjids where .. people get into quarrelz .. if they find some one prayed without topi.They even hit the guy who prayed wit out topi.

they are not doing the same when one of their daughter/lady goes out with out hijab?

I think people are not consistent (in their harshness...or wateva)...cos they are lacking knowledge.


I support harshness..... only if it comes in the right way..to make something right.

[GuestFellow]

I support harshness..... only if it comes in the right way..to make something right.

Like when?

[M.I.A.]

i think its a case of you have to speak up when you think somethings wronge but if you cannot get your point accross in a manner that can be understood then there is no point in speaking.

every time you alienate somebody they will close the door on your views on most matters even if you are proven right.. so there is no point in being right.
worse still when you are finally wronge you will have nobody to blame but yourself if those same people you were trying to talk to jump on your back.

it is probably better to do as you do and let do as they do, it becomes very apparent on who wants contact with you at this point.
...your reaction to those that would want contact with you is something to think about.

[Perseveranze]

Like when?

Asalaamu Alaikum,

This may not be the best example, but I think the West find some aspects of Shariah law "harsh". An example may be the hand cutting upon conviction of theft. Now even if this is harsh, it does solve the problem (as far as theft goes), which is the same as making something right. Ofcourse, not everyone see's this law as harsh and those that do should see the reasoning and in this case the effects of it.

[M.I.A.]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

This may not be the best example, but I think the West find some aspects of Shariah law "harsh". An example may be the hand cutting upon conviction of theft. Now even if this is harsh, it does solve the problem (as far as theft goes), which is the same as making something right. Ofcourse, not everyone see's this law as harsh and those that do should see the reasoning and in this case the effects of it.

..i think if sharia law is implemented in any country, the person who has been robbed should be made to cut the hands of the robber.
i know i may have transgressed against the quran in my thinking.

thinking outside the box but if a person is a convicted criminal, the hands that normally extend out towards him/her would think twice before doing so.

[GuestFellow]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

This may not be the best example, but I think the West find some aspects of Shariah law "harsh". An example may be the hand cutting upon conviction of theft. Now even if this is harsh, it does solve the problem (as far as theft goes), which is the same as making something right. Ofcourse, not everyone see's this law as harsh and those that do should see the reasoning and in this case the effects of it.

I was thinking of an example involving Muslims behaving towards other Muslims and non-Muslims.

[Perseveranze]

I was thinking of an example involving Muslims behaving towards other Muslims and non-Muslims.

Asalaamu Alaikum,

Sorry for misunderstanding, in this case my signature quote speaks for what I think of that.

[Muezzin]

You seem to have only mentioned cases where Muslims were looking down on or being harsh towards other Muslims, but lets not forget about how some Muslims act toward non Muslims... Sometimes it can get pretty disgusting, whether it's something being said in private, or something said during a dialog...

This particular problem seems to be more prevalent in online communities... (At least, it does from my experience.)

Posting on an internet forum tends to grant the poster a sense of anonymity, which can bring out the worst in people.

[Ummu Sufyaan]

the scariest thing is when this type of arrogance/judging, etc maybe integrated in your nature and therefore you completely miss it and fall into the trap of judging others, whilst believing you are actually in the right.

I was thinking of an example involving Muslims behaving towards other Muslims and non-Muslims.

sometimes you need to be harsh towards people as to get your point across becuase this is sometimes how advise works. i dont mean towards non-Muslims as they may not really get it (with a Muslim even if they do take it the wrong way, at-least you dont have to worry about putting them off Islam-well i hope not anyway).

being kind when its not needed can actual be detrimental because for example sometimes harshness works better with some people but if you decide to be all kind to a person who responds better to harshness, they will never realize their wrong doings. its like disciplining a child-sometimes you need to be a bit harsh otherwise showing love and kindness at the wrong time/place isn't going to help and they will never realize their wrong doings.

^im talking here in the scope of advise and not so much being a Muslim in general-what is mentioned in the OP is not agreeable. may allah make us humble hearted. i think also its important to be kind for the simple reason that if you were committing some type of sin, you would think someone would be nice enough to advise you.

another thing is is that we have to also remember that sometimes people will look like they are insulting someone, but it might just be the actual sin that person is committing that they dont agree with-though it may sound like they are judging that person. there's nothing wrong with having jealously over the deen.

[Danah]

They always say: the religion of Islam is the religion of ease. Sometimes you may lose all the good deeds you worked so hard to do because of a bad manner you show or a judgmental statement you threw here and there. We need to be easy on people.

I am reading a book of how the prophet dealt with people who made mistakes and he (peace be upon him) showed the best of examples in how we have to be gentle with those who do wrong and make them realize what they do in a polite effective way.

Being harsh can be effective in very few cases only and we need to be very careful when we show some harshness because that may lead the person who is doing mistake to be even worse in doing mistakes.

[GuestFellow]

sometimes you need to be harsh towards people as to get your point across becuase this is sometimes how advise works. i dont mean towards non-Muslims as they may not really get it (with a Muslim even if they do take it the wrong way, at-least you dont have to worry about putting them off Islam-well i hope not anyway).

...Well I became agnostic due to some Muslims being harsh to other Muslims. I'm just concerned that being harsh will give the wrong impression to other Muslims and even non-Muslims.

It does depend on what we mean by being harsh. I personally view being harsh as getting loud, angry and sometimes insulting the other person in the process. :/

Being harsh can be effective in very few cases only and we need to be very careful when we show some harshness because that may lead the person who is doing mistake to be even worse in doing mistakes.

Can you give an example?

[Danah]

Can you give an example?

This is exactly what I meant:

I personally view being harsh as getting loud, angry

So it depends on the thing they made mistake in, like if someone did a serious mistake you can't be calm and easy going, you need to show him/her the seriousness of the mistake they did.
Say someone came to you telling you that they commit Zina or kill someone else, this won't even be considered as a mere mistake but as a grave sin. Because if they didn't get that impression from you they might think that what they did was something trivial.