Gay Couples are to be Allowed to Marry in Churches.

[yas2010]

Aslaam O likum

Gay Couples are to be Allowed to Marry in Churches.

This has been running in the press for many days.

[~Raindrop~]

Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...tion-plan.html

[PouringRain]

I think it is sad to see some churches promoting this, but I am glad to see that there are those that still stand against it.

[Ramadhan]

Why does this surprise anyone?

Since its inception by Paul, christianity has always tried to appease the locales and the trends of the day in order to be accepted. In the process they twisted the words of Jesus (p), changed their meanings and even changed the actual words.


Just read the history of christianity and the church.

[جوري]

I personally don't understand why gay couples would seek a church wedding as opposed to a civil one? This is clearly not a union recognized by God, so what is the point of this?

[PouringRain]

Why does this surprise anyone?

I'm not sure anyone is surprised by it-- it is just quite sad. I am not from the UK, and I honestly do not follow the gay-politics of that area, but I am not surprised at this happening there.

It is also no surprise to me to see the article mentioning "liberal Jewish" groups also supporting gay marriage and wanting to conduct ceremonies in their synagogues. About ten years ago I read an article about a Rabbi in the US who is a huge supporter of gay marriage and conducts ceremonies for them. But we could even go back much, much further than that in history and also see these things. I am not slamming the Jews in general, on the contrary, there are Jewish sects that I absolutely adore.

I am just happy that there are churches, as mentioned in the article, who are not afraid to stand up against it.

[PouringRain]

I personally don't understand why gay couples would seek a church wedding as opposed to a civil one? This is clearly not a union recognized by God, so what is the point of this?

Agreed.

[ardianto]

It is also no surprise to me to see the article mentioning "liberal Jewish" groups also supporting gay marriage and wanting to conduct ceremonies in their synagogues.

Are they liberal ?. No wonder, liberal 'Muslim' also urged Muslim scholars to allow same-sex marriage. But, Alhamdulillah, Muslim scholars always refuse that stupid idea.

['Abd Al-Maajid]

No wonder, liberal 'Muslim' also urged Muslim scholars to allow same-sex marriage.

Never heard of it before...

[glo]

I think it is sad to see some churches promoting this, but I am glad to see that there are those that still stand against it.

As I understand it, the drive to allow gay marriage comes from government.
I am glad that places of worship are not made to conduct gay marriages (that would cause a great uproar in some places!), and that each place can make their own decision whether they are willing to do so or not.

I am still trying to get my head around how a gay marriage is different from a civil partnership, since civil partnerships were introduced to give gay couple the same legal rights as heterosexual couples ...

[ardianto]

Never heard of it before...

Now you have heard.

[Trumble]

I personally don't understand why gay couples would seek a church wedding as opposed to a civil one? This is clearly not a union recognized by God, so what is the point of this?

Probably much the same point as at present for many/most heterosexual couples. In the UK, anyway, I doubt the participants in most weddings give much if any thought to God. It's just the place to go for a traditional (and mother appeasing) wedding with the dress, bridesmaids, etc, etc.

[glo]

Probably much the same point as at present for many/most heterosexual couples. In the UK, anyway, I doubt the participants in most weddings give much if any thought to God. It's just the place to go for a traditional (and mother appeasing) wedding with the dress, bridesmaids, etc, etc.

That might be different for gay couples though.

My guess is that a gay couple who wishes to have a marriage in a religious place of worship would have thought long and hard about this, and that they would have spiritual/religious reasons for their decision.

After all, you can have all the pomp and embellishment that go along with consumer weddings in any other place - without it being in a religious place.

In fact I would say that more and more church weddings are held because it gives people at least some religious meaning. People for whom the religious ceremony means absolutely nothing are more likely to go elsewhere. (That's just my own perception)

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Hmmmm, why do Gay people want to marry in Church? Rather odd

Heres a post I found on the whole subject of Gay marriage

Joel

Gay couples are free to live their lives as they please and if they want to be in a loving relationship with a member of the same sex for the rest of their lives, no one is going to stop them. Homosexuals do not want the right to live together and love each other forever. They already have that right. What they want is for everyone else to validate their relationship. To see it as equal in every way and intrinsically no different than a male-female relationship to the point that the same word applies. But that's nonsense. It is intrinsically different. It may qualify as "marriage" if you define marriage as "a loving relationship between consenting adults." But if that is your definition your beef is with Merriam-Webster and every other existing dictionary, not me. It is no different with "creationism" failing to meet the definition of "science." Christians can whine and complain all they want, creationism does not meet the criteria of "science." Gay couples can whine and complain all they want, their relationship does not meet the criteria of "marriage."

[جوري]

and mother appeasing

it appeases mothers to have her son marrying a dude?

[CosmicPathos]

it appeases mothers to have her son marrying a dude?

I m sure Trumble's mother would be ok with that.

[Pygoscelis]

Can somebody show me where in the bible Jesus speaks against homosexuality?

I know it is in the Old Testament. But is it in anything Jesus said himself?

If it is then I agree it is very perplexing that a homosexual faced with such bigotry would want to join a religion spouting it.

But if it isn't, then I could see wiggle room. The Old Testament also says you can't eat shellfish, wear mixed fibres or allow witches or disobedient children live, etc. Modern Christians disregard a lot of what is in the Old Testament, so why not this too?

For what it's worth, I know some homosexuals (mostly in the closet still) who claim to be Christians (but maybe they are also in the closet about that?).

Also keep in mind that the bible is very paternalistic and yet some feminists manage to be Christians. Cognitive dissonance is apparently not much of a barrier to religiousity.

[GuestFellow]

I am still trying to get my head around how a gay marriage is different from a civil partnership, since civil partnerships were introduced to give gay couple the same legal rights as heterosexual couples ...

The difference is the name. Married couples and civil partners can adopt children, become joint tenants, tenants in common, divorce, etc. There is no difference other than the name and both get full legal rights.

I think gay couples want to be accepted. This is why they want to get married in religious institutes. Sometimes, gay couples want to get married in Churches because of religious reasons. I think it is a combination of both.

Time will tell whether this will become the norm. I will personally sit back and see how this will end. Should be interesting.

it appeases mothers to have her son marrying a dude?

I don't exactly understand what Trumble meant by that...

1. pacify: to say or do something in order to make somebody less angry or aggressive, especially by giving in to demands that have been made

2. satisfy need: to satisfy a need for something, especially a physical appetite
appeased their thirst with a long cool drink

I think Trumble meant some mothers like to see their children get married in Churches? Since it is traditional. Some women like to see their children get married in a Cinderella fairytale environment...

[Perseveranze]

Asalaamu Alaikum,

Not really suprising since Islam's going to be the last unchanged religion left one day.

[glo]

Can somebody show me where in the bible Jesus speaks against homosexuality?

Nope. That's because he didn't.
The nearest he got to mentioning sexual relationships was in Matthew 19:5 (also in Mark 10:7)

‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’

Not very clear at all, since he is speaking for heterosexual relationships, but not explicitly against homosexual ones (although some people choose to understand it that way).

Paul, however, does speak against homosexual practices in Romans 1:26-27 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

If it is then I agree it is very perplexing that a homosexual faced with such bigotry would want to join a religion spouting it.

Many Christians I know (myself included) would argue that we are all sinners, and that without the grace of God none of us can ever be 'good enough' to earn our salvation.
If you look at Paul's description of the people who will be denied entry into the kingdom of heaven, we are probably all included in that group there in some shape or form:

Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Therefore homosexuals consider themselves sinners, just like the rest of us - and in need of God's saving grace.
They are definitely not outside of God's love and grace.

But if it isn't, then I could see wiggle room. The Old Testament also says you can't eat shellfish, wear mixed fibres or allow witches or disobedient children live, etc. Modern Christians disregard a lot of what is in the Old Testament, so why not this too?

I agree.
When I read the Bible, I don't see a book 'written in stone', I see an account of how people's understanding of and relationship with God grew and matured. Call it 'the evolution of humanity's faith journey', if you like.
That process still goes on today. We read and interpret and understand what the Bible teaches within each and every new generation. That makes it a living tool rather than a dead book!
(Don't tell anybody else I said that. I know that many people would disagree with me. But I am sure that if I am shunned as a heretic I can find shelter with my atheist friends. )

For what it's worth, I know some homosexuals (mostly in the closet still) who claim to be Christians (but maybe they are also in the closet about that?).

I know people who are openly gay and Christian, and who are welcome in our church.
(That's not to say that as a denomination the Church of England will make the shift to allowing gay marriages any time soon. I think so far they have spoken out against it.)