Is there such a thing as a Muslim nation today?

[Salahudeen]

I got thinking about this, a brother told me that he regards countries such as Indonesia, Egypt, Pakistan as "Muslim countries", I thought sure there are many countries in which the population contains Muslims' but do we really have a "Muslim country"? Can these countries be defined as "Muslim countries" when they stand for secularism and in some cases democracy?

The countries populated with majority Muslims', represent secularism and democracy, something that goes against Islam. The people of the country may be Muslim however the flag of these countries does not represent sharia and the rule of Allah, it represents secularism and democracy and the rule of man over man, not the rule of Allah.

The governments of these countries are secular therefore their flag represents the government and what the country is upon which is secularism. And secularism is something against Islam, so how can we say these countries are "Muslim countries" when they represent things that are against Islam such as democracy and secularism.

This raised another question in my head, can we support their flag and cheer for their victory whether it be in a game of sport or a war? Because their flag represents man made laws and not shari'a. And these principles go against Islam. So can we cheer for them still and support their flag?

Is it allowed to join the armies of these countries? Since you will be pledging allegiance to a government that rules by secularism? And you'll be carrying a flag that represents secularism and democracy?

I read this hadith as well

Whoever is killed under a blind banner, calling for Asabiyyah, or supporting Asabiyyah, he dies a Jahiliyah (disbelief time) death." Sahih Muslim book 20 hadith 4561

What is a blind banner?

[GuestFellow]

I got thinking about this, a brother told me that he regards countries such as Indonesia, Egypt, Pakistan as "Muslim countries", I thought sure there are many countries in which the population contains Muslims' but do we really have a "Muslim country"? Can these countries be defined as "Muslim countries" when they stand for secularism and in some cases democracy?

I think "Muslim countries" mean that the majority of the population in that country are Muslims.

The countries populated with majority Muslims', represent secularism and democracy, something that goes against Islam.

I cannot speak for all Muslims. I'm certain there are Muslims that support the Sharia but do not have the power to implement it. Of course, there are some Muslims that support secularism...

The people of the country may be Muslim however the flag of these countries does not represent sharia and the rule of Allah, it represents secularism and democracy and the rule of man over man, not the rule of Allah.

I agree that no country in the world has established the complete Sharia.

This raised another question in my head, can we support their flag and cheer for their victory whether it be in a game of sport or a war? Because their flag represents man made laws and not shari'a. And these principles go against Islam. So can we cheer for them still and support their flag?

I do not support any country. My family came from Pakistan but I was born in Britain. I could have been born in America, France, Germany, etc. I had no control over where I was born. So how can I be proud of something when I had no control over it?

When it comes to sports, I do not support any teams because they are representing their country. I could careless who wins or loses, it is not as though you are going to get anything out of it...I prefer to play sports than watch it. I think some people need to relax when it comes to sports. It tends to create more division than unity. If I had to support a team, it would be based on the player's skill rather than where they came from.

As for war, I will never support the country that is the aggressor, including my own country. When it comes to wars, I will support the country that has done nothing wrong and is simply defending itself. Of course, wars are a lot more complicated but one should not support their own country blindly and assume their countries' actions are heroic.

Is it allowed to join the armies of these countries? Since you will be pledging allegiance to a government that rules by secularism? And you'll be carrying a flag that represents secularism and democracy?

I'm not sure, good question. I think if a Muslim joined the army and was ordered to do something haraam like kill innocent civilians, then he should leave the army.

To conclude, Muslims are loyal to Allah. Do not let nationalism divide us. We are already divided as it is...

[Aztec-Revert19]

Salaam alykum.
I think perhaps your friend was differentiating between "Muslim countries" where Muslims are the majority, and not referring to Islamic Countries where Shari'ah is Law. Scholars generally agree that no true Islamic Country exists today. Not even Saudi Arabia or Iran cut it.

As for your other questions, all I know is that if it does not contradict Islam then it is allowed. I personally could never join the army unless I myself got to decide where I was going, what I would do, and in times of war IF I want to fight. For instance, I would NEVER have of supported my country in wiping out the Natives, simply because I myself am native XD I would however support my country in the war against the Axis in WW2.

I know that nationalism is discouraged in Islam, although I do not know if it is altogether haram (especially if the said country does not have Shari'ah). Sorry I was not of much help

[tigerkhan]

i blv there is no concept of "islamic countries" in islam. there is concept of muslim umma and khifaat which didnot base on race, area or else but on kalma La illaha illallah. and surely this khilafat will be again set up in time of Mehdi AS.