Philosophy as in the subject like a college subject? I know a few muslims who take that sort of course.. It is difficult and it isn't worth much in terms of employers. All you do is study other peoples perceptions about the world if you like that sort of stuff I'd say go for it, but don't let those philopsiphies get to your head they are just written by people with way way too much free time IMO.
Philosophy by itself seems to be somewhat of a futile discipline of study, true, it is important that it talks about logic, ethics and morals but its application does not really produce tangible benefits to the society such as medicine or engineering or scientific research. Hence, I personally consider philosophy to be a subject for those who are have too much time on their hands and who dont like to do hands-on things. Scholars of Islam also have forbidden Muslims to learn philosophy as it can pose danger to one's emaan as one can fall into nihilism due to philosophy. I do not need to name names but TH Huxley's mental problems and nietzsche's mental issues come to my mind. Its true that the problems ran in Huxley's family but it seems deep (useless) thinking also precipitated early onset of mental disease in Huxley.
Help me to escape from this existence
I yearn for an answer... can you help me?
I'm drowning in a sea of abused visions and shattered dreams
In somnolent illusion... I'm paralyzed
Below is from a book I have called "Belief in Allah in light of the Qur'an and Sunnah" By Dr Umar S. al-Ashqar.
Philosophy deals with the exact same topics that religion deals with, for the philosophers claim that their research is aimed at discovering the origins and purpose of the universe, and discovering the ways of attaining human happiness in the short term and the long term. These form the two components of the discipline of philosophy, the theoretical and the pratical, which are also the topics addressed by addressed by religion.
Yet despite all this, I say that there is immense difference between religion and philosophy. They differ with regard to their origins and sources, their methodology and way, the extent of their prevalence and influence, in their styles and methods of deriving evidence, and in the effects that each of them have.
We will endeavour to explain all of this so as to remove any confusion of religion with philosophy.
1. Origins of philosophy
Philosophy in all its guises, is a "human endeavour" which is subject to all the restrictions, limitations and slow progress towards an unknown objective that are inherent in human nature. It is subject to the human potential for change, and the human alternations between guidance and misguidance, between approaching perfection and straying far from the goal.
Hence the prominent philosophers were not able to rid themselves of the influence of their environment, so their concepts and beliefs reflected their surroundings.
In all his works, Plato, for example, repeats the myths which were prevalent at his time, and he even produces myths of his own as part of his ideas and beliefs. Indeed many of his ideas and beliefs are myths in themselves.
Listen to what Al-Aqqad says about Plato:
" The idolatrous environment in which Plato lived overwhelmed his thoughts, because of the customs of his society and the effect of his surroundings. So he included in his beliefs the idea of gods and demi-gods, which have no place in the monotheistic religions.
Then Al-Aqqaad discusses Plato's point of view concerning the universe, using Plato's theory of the universe to prove the point that is quoted above
"according to Plato the universe consists of two opposing levels, the level of absolute reason and the level of primordial matter. All power comes from absolute reason, and all incapability comes from the primordial matter. In between, there are beings on various levels; higher status is determined by the the extent to which they are influenced by reasion, and lower levels by how much they take from the primordial matter. Some of these intermediate beings are Gods, some are demi gods, and some are human beings."
The reason why Plato accepted the idea of these intermediate gods is as Al-Aqqaad says, because
"he wanted to explain thereby the reason why evil, imperfection and pain exist in this world. For absolute reason is perfect and is not limited by time or place and produces nothing but good and virtue. So these intermediate gods are taking care of creation because they exist between the all powerful God and the incapable primordial matter. Hence imperfection, evil and pain stem from these intermediaries between the two extremes"
It is also well known that Plato believed in the idea of transmigration of souls.
This is philoshopy as described from its own sources.
The Islamic aqeedah on the other hand is a revelation from Allah, and has all the Divine qualities of unalterable truth whose words can not be changed, and decisive truth which falsehood can not approach from before it or behind it. Furthermore it is a great blessing which comes to people without any effort on their part, bestowing its light upon them in a very short period, like the blinking of an eye.
Methodology and way
The philosophical methodology differs from its Islamic counterpart from the beginning to the end. Many philsophers begin by studying the human psyche, making this their basis and starting point. So when they speak of their understanding of knowledge, they say that sometimes it is empirical (based on experience) sometimes it is rational (based on reason) and sometimes it is both.
They made the empirical, natural and other sciences the basis without which knowledge cannot be aqquired, then they claimed that in this manner they could understand matters which were close to them, in the realm of nature, mathmatics and ethics. They made these three the foundations on which all sciences are built. Thus they were also represented in the bases of 'ilm al -kalam (scholasticism), where it is said that one is half of two, the body can not be in two places at once, and that two opposites, such as black and white, can not be joined.
Many of these people do not consider ethical matters, such as justice and chastity, as being part of the basic principles; rather they see them as minor issues for which support and evidence are required.
Many philosophical writers start with logic, then empirical science and mathematics, then they move onto knowledge of the Divine. So you find that writers on 'ilm al kalaam follow the same principles when examining, studying and deriving evidence, which is like logic, then they move on to discuss, how the universe is created, and strive to prove the existence of the creator. Some of them divide knowledge into that which exists and that which does not, and sub categories thereof, as the philosopher when he starts to seek knowledge of the Divine.
Most philosophers speak in depth about matters of nature or instinct, they then discuss the stars and planets, then those among them who study the matter of divinity start to speak about the "One who must exist" (i.e Allah), and about reasons and human nature. Some of them try to prove the existence of the "One who must exist" on the basis that this universe has to have the "One Who must exist".
The aim of those scholars of 'ilm al-kalaam (scholasticism) who affirm Tawheed in their books is to prove the Oneness of the Creator, and that he has no partner or associate. They think that this is what is meant by the phrase Laa ilaaha illa-Allah (There is no God except Allah).
This methodology of philosophy and 'ilm al-kalam (scholasticism) may keep the researcher busy for a lifetime , without ever reaching any conclusions. Whatever he learns from it is still accompanied by doubts which forestall any kind of certainty. Thus the researcher is beset by confusion.
The Qur'anic methodology, on the other hand, makes the call to worship Allah alone, with no partner or associate, the starting point of its message and the message of all the Messengers:
"And we did not send any Messenger before you (O Muhammed) but we reveald to him Laa ilaaha illa Ana (none has the right to be worshipped but Allah), so worship Me (Alone and none else)" Qur'an 21:21
Every messenger first of all asked his people to worship Allah alone
" O my people! Worship Allah! you have no other Ilaah (God) but him" Qur'an 23:23
he asked them to worship Him (Allah) with their hearts, with their tongues and with their physical faculties; the worship of Allah implies that one knows him and remembers him.
According to this methodology, the foundation of knowledge is knowledge of Allah, not empirical knowledge. For Allah is the First, Who created all that exists, and the last, to Whom all of creation will return. He is the-all encompassing principle; knowledge of Him is the basis of all knowledge, remembrance of Him is the basis of all remembrance, and striving for His sake is the basis of all effort.
From the knowledge of Allah stem all other kinds of knowledge. From the worship of him and seeking him alone stem all kinds of good objectives. By worshipping Him and seeking his help, the heart is protected, for it has taken refuge in the trustworthy support and his clinging to guidance and certain proof. So it is all ways increasing either in knowledge and emaan or in safety from ignorance and disbelief. For learning by the help of Allah is the greatest means of learning about Allah and about life and other things, and about the human psyche.
Ibn Abi Haatim said: " We learned about everything by the help of Allah". Ibn Abbas was asked "How did you come to know your Lord" He said, "Whoever tries to understand his religion by analogy will remain confused throughout his life, wandering and deviating from the right way. We learned about Allah from the way he described himself and from the attributes of which He told us."
When the messanger (saw) sent Mu'adh ibn Jabal to Yemen to call the people to Allah, he told him that he would come to some of the people of the Book. He the Prophet (saw) advised him that the first thing to which he should call them should be the worship of Allah alone. If they acknowledged that, then he was to call them to do the obligatory duties. H e did not tell him to call them first to doubt or to examing things anew, as is the way of some philosophers and scholastics.
Therefore Bukhari started his book with the foundation on which knowledge and emaan are built, that is, the Revelation. So he started with the chapter entitled "The beginning of the Revelation" in which he described how knowledge and emaan were revealed to the Prophet (saw). Then he followed this with the "Book of Faith (emaan)", which implies acceptance of what the Prophet brought.
This is followed by the chapter "Book of knowledge" wherein he explains what the Prophet (saw) brought. So he organised his book in a manner which is indicative of his knowledge and wisdom, may Allah have mercy on him.
When Allah resurrects mankind, He will not ask them about the empirical sciences, or logic and natrual sciences; rather He will ask them whether or not they responded to His Messengers.
"Every time a group is cast into Hell its keeper will ask: "Did no warner come to you?" They will say "Yes indeed a warner did come to us, but we belied him and said: Allah never sent down anything of revelation, you are only in great error." And they will say: " Had we but listened or used our intelligence, we would not have been among the dwellers of the blazing Fire!" Then they will confess their sin. So away with the dwellers of the blazing Fire!" Quran (67: 8-11)
Evidence can only be established against mankined by sending them Messengers
"And we never punish untill We have sent a Messenger to give warning" Qur'an 17:15
Just as the call to worship Allah is the starting point in the Qur'anic methodology, and knowledge of Allah is the basis from which stem all other kinds of knowledge, the final point, too, is the worship of Allah which includes knowing him and affirming his Oneness (Tawheed).
Affirming the oneness of the creator which is the ultimate aim of the Islamic philosophers, is only a part of the Qur'anic methodology; despite its importance, it is not sufficient merely to state that. Hence the mushrikeen - the polytheists whom the messenger fought did not benefit from affirmation of that.
" And if you ( O Muhammed) ask them: " Who has created the heavens and the earth, " they will certainly say: " Allah" (Quran 31:25)
But the philosophers who examined the human mind and psyche have gotten nowhere in this vast and endless field. You find sufficient evidence of that in the fact that the immense scientific progress of the modern age has not revealed to us the true nature of the human psyche. "
"Mankind has made huge efforts to discover his psyche, but despite the fact we possess a huge treasure of observations made by philosophers, scientists, poets and spiritual leaders of all times, we can only understand a specific aspect of ourselves, but not man as a whole..... We know that man is composed of different parts, but even these parts are known to us only through our limited means. Each one of us is formed from his physical parts, in the midst of which is an unknown reality. The fact remains that our ignorance is almost total, and the deepest questions about mankind remain unanswered, because unlimited areas in our inner selves are still unknown"
(Al-Ilm yad'oo illa 'l-eemaan)
If this is the knowledge gained through the twentieth century research, how can the human psyche be the basis from which other kinds of knowledge stem? With regards to the knowledge of whatever lies beyond the natural world, philosophy has clearly gone far astray.
Last edited by Salahudeen; 04-18-2011 at 09:40 PM.
“Who said that guidance requires there to be someone accompanying you"
4. The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or beliefs.
That's the essential one, not that the others can be ignored. I'm glad to see there is a least one person here who knows what philosophy is.
Every single academic subject, any art, any science, has it's foundations in philosophy. All of them were once part of philosophy before branching off into their own distinct discipline, something only possible as philosophy established the concepts that made it possible for that to happen, from the aesthetics of visual art to the scientific method. Philosophy studies the fundamentals behind all other branches of knowledge; and you would be amazed at how many things scientists, for example, take for granted as true when those truths are no more than unprovable assumptions.
It is difficult and it isn't worth much in terms of employers.
It can be difficult, which is why it is actually much sought after by particular employers (although, granted, it's not much use if you want to be an engineer or doctor). What philosophy does do, better than any other subject, is teach you to think, to argue, and - frankly, to spot BS. Teamed up with an MBA, for example, a good Philosophy bachelors degree can be a formidable combination. I am somewhat biased as a philosophy graduate, I admit, but you would be staggered at much utter BS is routinely put out by corporate managers who actually believe it to be true, and how easily it can be exposed. Just so long as you remember nobody likes a smartass...
I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.
I took it in college and I think its very important as most modern atheist have views that stem from philosophy - It indeed isnt futile and meaningless as most of modern thinking can be easily understood by learning some basic ideas in philosophy.
peace
Last edited by Zafran; 04-19-2011 at 12:16 AM.
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
Philosophy by itself seems to be somewhat of a futile discipline of study, true, it is important that it talks about logic, ethics and morals but its application does not really produce tangible benefits to the society such as medicine or engineering or scientific research. Hence, I personally consider philosophy to be a subject for those who are have too much time on their hands and who dont like to do hands-on things. Scholars of Islam also have forbidden Muslims to learn philosophy as it can pose danger to one's emaan as one can fall into nihilism due to philosophy. I do not need to name names but TH Huxley's mental problems and nietzsche's mental issues come to my mind. Its true that the problems ran in Huxley's family but it seems deep (useless) thinking also precipitated early onset of mental disease in Huxley.
Salaam
Al Ghazzali actualy learnt philosophy and then beat hes counterparts at there own game.
peace
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
Al Ghazzali actualy learnt philosophy and then beat hes counterparts at there own game.
peace
w salam
true but also please read his repentance.
Help me to escape from this existence
I yearn for an answer... can you help me?
I'm drowning in a sea of abused visions and shattered dreams
In somnolent illusion... I'm paralyzed
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
JazakumuAllahukheir for all the information provided..May I ask which scholars have said that you shouldn't study philosophy?
Possibly there are some who have said so. but, that would be their own philosophy as to what is education.
The difficulty with philosophy studies in schools is that they are often a study of the classical philosophers and not a study as to what philosophy is.
Above all else, Philosophy will sharpen your critical reasoning skills simply b/c the majority of the work in a philosophy class will (or at least should) involve attempting to strengthen/debunk arguments. As such, you will (hopefully) find yourself applying the reasoning tools you've acquired in your philosophy studies to your personal beliefs. Either you will come out with strengthened beliefs or you will come out with a new perspective; if you're okay with this or if you welcome this challenge then Philosophy will prove quite interesting! On the other hand, if you're afraid you will have a change of heart then you should seek something that will not impact your personal beliefs.
On a side note, I personally think everyone should at least take some Critical Reasoning classes in school which traditionally are taught by philosophy professors or use philosophy text books.
Edit: If you're wondering about careers I think the best thing to do is to study it in conjunction with something else. Philosophy will give you a well-rounded mind and your other field of study can give you the specialized skill required for whatever job you're interested in. On top of that, philosophy does well in preparing you for standardized tests. But I don't recommend studying Philosophy (or pretty much any other liberal art for that matter) on its own if you don't plan on getting a phD or attending some grad school.
Last edited by Lynx; 04-19-2011 at 08:19 PM.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
-Plato
no, not in detail at all. But i have listened to different scholars who have read his work and critically analyzed it. Of course I should read his works on my own but his Incoherence of Philosophers seems to be an important work which criticized the philosophers.
Help me to escape from this existence
I yearn for an answer... can you help me?
I'm drowning in a sea of abused visions and shattered dreams
In somnolent illusion... I'm paralyzed
Above all else, Philosophy will sharpen your critical reasoning skills simply b/c the majority of the work in a philosophy class will (or at least should) involve attempting to strengthen/debunk arguments. As such, you will (hopefully) find yourself applying the reasoning tools you've acquired in your philosophy studies to your personal beliefs. Either you will come out with strengthened beliefs or you will come out with a new perspective; if you're okay with this or if you welcome this challenge then Philosophy will prove quite interesting! On the other hand, if you're afraid you will have a change of heart then you should seek something that will not impact your personal beliefs.
On a side note, I personally think everyone should at least take some Critical Reasoning classes in school which traditionally are taught by philosophy professors or use philosophy text books.
Edit: If you're wondering about careers I think the best thing to do is to study it in conjunction with something else. Philosophy will give you a well-rounded mind and your other field of study can give you the specialized skill required for whatever job you're interested in. On top of that, philosophy does well in preparing you for standardized tests. But I don't recommend studying Philosophy (or pretty much any other liberal art for that matter) on its own if you don't plan on getting a phD or attending some grad school.
so other disciplines now have become a "skill?" Science is more than a skill. It is critical reasoning and scientific method applied to the physical world. More than a "skill."
Help me to escape from this existence
I yearn for an answer... can you help me?
I'm drowning in a sea of abused visions and shattered dreams
In somnolent illusion... I'm paralyzed
The difficulty with philosophy studies in schools is that they are often a study of the classical philosophers and not a study as to what philosophy is.
You have to start somewhere. You can no more study philosophy without studying the works of philosophers than you can science without the work of scientists.
You have to start somewhere. You can no more study philosophy without studying the works of philosophers than you can science without the work of scientists.
I find science boring. I personally find economics interesting.
Since you studied Philosophy, how would you compare it with other subjects like Political Science and Sociology?
format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx
Edit: If you're wondering about careers I think the best thing to do is to study it in conjunction with something else. Philosophy will give you a well-rounded mind and your other field of study can give you the specialized skill required for whatever job you're interested in. On top of that, philosophy does well in preparing you for standardized tests. But I don't recommend studying Philosophy (or pretty much any other liberal art for that matter) on its own if you don't plan on getting a phD or attending some grad school.
I've heard of some Philosophy graduates working in journalism and law. What can you do with a PhD in Philosophy?
I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.
I find science boring. I personally find economics interesting.
I've heard of some Philosophy graduates working in journalism and law. What can you do with a PhD in Philosophy?
Well what I had in mind when I said phD was teaching/research at a university.
FYI economics and Philosophy have a very complimentary relationship. Learning social and political philosophy definitely enhances one's understanding of the origin and moral justification of differing points of view in economics. This shouldn't be surprising considering most of the big names in Economic Theory have been philosophers (i.e., John Stuart Mill, Marx, Adam Smith, Keynes, Hayek).
so other disciplines now have become a "skill?" Science is more than a skill. It is critical reasoning and scientific method applied to the physical world. More than a "skill."
I said it was a "specialized skill" which it is because science uses a specialized methodology unique to itself which a student of science learns to use. The methodology of philosophers is critical reasoning which is not 'specialized' in the sense that only a philosophy major can learn how to think critically; every field of study in academia teaches critical reasoning. The incentive in studying philosophy is that, presumably, philosophy majors are more versatile in their critical thinking ability as (a) they've dealt with difficult material from a plethora of different fields (science, math, economics, sociology, political science, art , music etc) and (b) critical reasoning is pretty much all they do since they don't focus on learning a ton of facts like a biologist or doctor would have to. IMO anyway
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
-Plato
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I personally find economics interesting.
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