^Yes, stonning is part of Islam. And no law of Allah is immoral or disgusting. If you are a Muslim then please focus on learning and practicing your obligations instead of worrying about what people are saying about Islam and what not.
Stoning!
Hey, me n my stupid questions again lol =)
OK this has been bothering me foreaaalll... ppl be talking about how islam is crazy and abusive to it's women and i'm always sticking up for us, u know saying i wear the hijab cause i WANT to, which is true, and i dress modest cause i WANT to, also true. all that. but they end up goin around that and to the topic of stoning. and honestly......idk what to say!
it's disgusting, and it's immoral!
is it really part of islam???????????? =/
Someone please help me lol im like feeling so sick watching stoning stuff and seeing how WRONG they are!
If u save one person it's as if u have saved all of mankind, and if u kill one person it's as if u have killed all of mankind unless it is a woman and she is said to have done something wrong than u can mercilessly bury her chest deep in the ground and toss medium sized rocks at her for the deliberate slow and torturous death-- really? hadith mix up? something?
^Yes, stonning is part of Islam. And no law of Allah is immoral or disgusting. If you are a Muslim then please focus on learning and practicing your obligations instead of worrying about what people are saying about Islam and what not.
I don't think that's helpful to the sister though. If people are saying something bad about Islam how can you tell her not to worry about it when she is coming to us for help to defend the religion and clear misconceptions?format_quote Originally Posted by MSalman
Now sister, I wish I could help you but I've only been a Muslim for merely months now and I don't know much about hadith. Yes, stoning is apart of Islam but not in the barbaric and unjust way that non-Muslims like to say that it is. Someone please come to this thread and help this sister out with a thorough explanation.
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format_quote Originally Posted by Gothique
Sister there are verses about stoning, and I gather your knowledge about Islam , like all of us, needs to broaden, but before that happens, refrain from using words with negative connotations for something which is a command from Allah swt, and seek forgiveness immediately, before you proceed to learn more. You do know that to learn something of knowledge requires an un biased approach, and that means totally un biased, when we accept the message of Islam as the true word of Allah swt.
I'm sure somebody more learned will share the verse and the hadiths about it with you, being humans it is not us who decide the basis of justice, only Allah knows what goes inside the hearts of people who commit acts which have been penalized by the penalty of being stonned to death, a penalty which was practised in all Abrahamic faiths, Christianity and judaism, the verses about them are still there in those books, so for starters it wasnt an only Islamic practise, it was being practised well Before Islam.
Secondly, The concept of punishment is not ' humiliation & mortification' in Islam, but infact quite the opposite, which is, to purify people of their sins so that Allah swt may forgive them in this world and the hereafter for the crime or sin that they commit. Along with maintaining a strong sense of moral scope, which would guide the human social behavior towards harmony and not shameless chaotic lewd decadence, which is so prevalent today that these penalties are not in practise. The practise of stonning was not carried out a lot since the crimes which fetch these punishments required confessions and witnesses. So unless a person admitted to it, you couldn't stone him/her, esp in the case of adultery. There are a few other offenses too which follow stoning.
When there was a companion of the prophet who committed adultery, he felt really guilty and confessed his it to the Prophet and presented himself for the penalty, he was convicted, with the words of high praise by the Prophet for his courage to come out forward with his sin, since people commit sins and hide them. Some people spoke of that companion in not so good words and the Prophet forbade them to, saying that his tauba was bigger than the tauba (repentance)of all the city combined, and let no one speak ill of him since he has been purified of all his sins and his tauba has been accepted.
The women who had committed adultery with this companion was of a well placed family and she refused to accept her sin and lied in front of the Prophet and everybody saying that she didnt do it, hence she was spared of the penalty, but could she be spared of the penalty of the akhira, ? dont think so easily.
There is another opinion on this too, in which scholars say that one must seek forgiveness from ALlah swt for all the sins that we commit, since the penalty of stonning is not implemented anywhere in the world in this instance that I know of, not sure about Saudia. And adultery and fornication are ever on the rise in the society, unless a person goes through a cheating spouse, you dont know what they go through, and the sin isnt only of cheating, it is of committing a great sin in the eyes of Allah swt. Anyhow, I think we all can see the rise in immoral activities, pedophilia and incest all over the world, and again, if you dont know how the victims cope with being abused/raped like this, you really arent thinking from a position of compassion.
Think over it keeping in mind the reality around you and you will be sickened with whats happening, rather than feeling strange about what ALlah swt commanded about how to preserve the moral integrity of the society.
Just google the rape and abuse statistics of US alone and you'll be surprised to know that a woman is reported to be raped every minute in US, could it get more worse, I hope not.
And Only Allah swt knows best.
Last edited by SFatima; 09-28-2011 at 02:57 PM.
Alright, I have to do this. You guys made me. Thread title is just begging for it. I'll let Bob Dylan take it from here:
Well, they'll stone ya when you're trying to be so good
They'll stone ya just a-like they said they would
They'll stone ya when you're tryin' to go home
Then they'll stone ya when you're there all alone
But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned.
Well, they'll stone ya when you're walkin' 'long the street
They'll stone ya when you're tryin' to keep your seat
They'll stone ya when you're walkin' on the floor
They'll stone ya when you're walkin' to the door
But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned.
They'll stone ya when you're at the breakfast table
They'll stone ya when you are young and able
They'll stone ya when you're tryin' to make a buck
They'll stone ya and then they'll say "good luck"
Tell ya what, I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned.
Well, They'll stone you and say that it's the end
Then they'll stone you and then they'll come back again
They'll stone you when you're riding in your car
They'll stone you when you're playing your guitar
Yes, but I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned.
Well, they'll stone you when you walk all alone
They'll stone you when you are walking home
They'll stone you and then say you are brave
They'll stone you when you are set down in your grave
But I would not feel so all alone
Everybody must get stoned.
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Not everybody & everywhere,format_quote Originally Posted by King of Nines
its all about if we care,
to hurt the people who are alone,
and then cry and run away from the stone,
As if the stone would hurt us more,
more than the pain the victim bore.
no great rhyming so no stones plz
Stoning isnt as that simple as it sounds, its implication is a very rigorous process, to carry out the proceedings of whether it is applicable or not. People must stop thinking that everybody would be stoned in this world if this were the case with Islam , the truth is that Islam does not punish for crimes happened before embracing islam, neither are such penalties applied without the shariah being followed as a rule by a nation. If you commit adultery and tell no one, who's going to stone you? Nobody. How many people who commit the lowly act of adultery, have the guts to fess up? HArdly any. But knowing that there is a law that punishes you for it, can greatly impact people's minds and force the evil out of their minds even it appears very charming to them at some point.
Islam discourages all forms of social evils and only grave penalties can prevent people from great mishaps. Either you endorse 'no real punishment' for sexual abuse offenses, protect them and support the social destruction of a society or you sing about the destruction voicing your pain. ( and singing helps remove social evils?Nothing against poetry though , but it doesnt help the masses )
stoning is applicable for men and women.format_quote Originally Posted by Gothique
format_quote Originally Posted by GothiqueYou need to be very careful of their "questions". You're thinking how to answer their question. Except that the question itself is wrong. They've said to you about women getting stoned and you're thinking how to defend that. Well, you don't have to. Why? Because stoning is prescribed for married adulterers, men and women (as mentioned by Br Ramadhan above). There is nothing that mentions, as far as I know that stoning is only for women. The various ahadeeth on the topic mention both married men and women being stoned. Here's one that refers just to a man:format_quote Originally Posted by Gothique
Malik related to me from Yahya ibn Said from Said ibn al-Musayyab that a man from the Aslam tribe came to Abu Bakr as-Siddiq and said to him, "I have committed adultery." Abu Bakr said to him, "Have you mentioned this to anyone else?" He said, "No." Abu Bakr said to him, "Then cover it up with the veil of Allah. Allah accepts tawba from his slaves." His self was still unsettled, so he went to Umar ibn al-Khattab. He told him the same as he had said to Abu Bakr, and Umar told him the same as Abu Bakr had said to him. His self was still not settled so he went to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and said to him, "I have committed adultery," insistently. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, turned away from him three times. Each time the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, turned away from him until it became too much. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, questioned his family, "Does he have an illness which affects his mind, or is he mad?" They said, "Messenger of Allah, by Allah, he is well." The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Unmarried or married?" They said, "Married, Messenger of Allah." The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, gave the order and he was stoned. (From the Muwatta of Imam Malik, chapter on stoning, hadeeth no 2)
Not only Islam, but Judaism and Christianity too. The only difference being that they don't always follow their scripture, or pick and choose what to follow, abandoning some of God's laws. Whereas we follow what Allah and His prophetformat_quote Originally Posted by Gothiquehave commanded us. Stoning is mentioned for no less than 18 different crimes in the Old Testament. These include cursing one's parents, witchcraft, idolatry etc.
The topic and fiqh of stoning is detailed as to the cirumstances it is to be employed in, and any conditions that need to be met etc and I'm not attempting to explain any of that here, but just to say, 1) it's not only for women, but men as well, as shown above, and 2) it is also legislated in the Old Testament for a far greater range of crimes than in Islam.
Hope that helps a bit.
And Allah knows best in all matters, and may He forgive me if I said anything wrong.
Last edited by Insaanah; 09-28-2011 at 07:09 PM.
And the standard of proof required to establish, say, adultery is extremely, and deliberately, high - to the point where stoning for such an offence should be a very rare occurence indeed according to Sharia.format_quote Originally Posted by Ramadhan
This.Malik related to me from Yahya ibn Said from Said ibn al-Musayyab that a man from the Aslam tribe came to Abu Bakr as-Siddiq and said to him, "I have committed adultery." Abu Bakr said to him, "Have you mentioned this to anyone else?" He said, "No." Abu Bakr said to him, "Then cover it up with the veil of Allah. Allah accepts tawba from his slaves." His self was still unsettled, so he went to Umar ibn al-Khattab. He told him the same as he had said to Abu Bakr, and Umar told him the same as Abu Bakr had said to him. His self was still not settled so he went to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and said to him, "I have committed adultery," insistently. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, turned away from him three times. Each time the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, turned away from him until it became too much. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, questioned his family, "Does he have an illness which affects his mind, or is he mad?" They said, "Messenger of Allah, by Allah, he is well." The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Unmarried or married?" They said, "Married, Messenger of Allah." The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, gave the order and he was stoned. (From the Muwatta of Imam Malik, chapter on stoning, hadeeth no 2)
It doesn't matter if you're a woman or man, the punishment applies to both.
dont worry gothique i can be more stupid than you, what use has god of judges and punishments?
allah swt needs nothing to represent him, that is not up for debate.
we can go on and on about what is meant for you and what is not meant for you being decreed by god,
or hadiths quoted day after day... im kinda worried, do you guys even read what you write or ponder on its implications within your world view or is it a copy past job or this looks nice on another forum.
in my experience what goes around comes around, nobody gets away with murder... nobody.
islam practised today is not the same as 1400 years ago, to even imply so is stupidity of the highest measure.
womens rights and there treatment are not the same either.
stoning is barbaric, do you not think allah swt is the best of judges?
if stoning is written for him then its stoning he will get, but even if you did not know his crime and he walked the earth.. would allah swt not stone him?
after all he rehearses his signs unto us day after day, its a shame you would rather follow the "rules" then follow guidance.
its all a bit cryptic no?
plane as day in my eyes.
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Islam actually is the only religion that affords so much protection to women.format_quote Originally Posted by Gothique
Is the type of society that Islam envisages immoral, or a society where people can sleep around, have one night stands, and a bit of fun on the side, where families are being destroyed every day by such acts?format_quote Originally Posted by Gothique
In Islam, the family is the very foundation, the bedrock, the cornerstone of society. This small unit of people, and their behaviour, has an effect on society at large.
Lawful and unlawful methods for fulfilling our desires have been made clear to us. In Adultery, an adulterer resorted to an unlawful method when there existed a lawful method for satisfying his sex desires.
Islam does not rely on punishment alone for saving humanity from the menace of adultery. It employs both reformatory, preventative and prohibitory measures on a large scale. It has provided legal punishment only as a last resort. Islam does not want that people should go on committing this crime and being flogged or stoned day and night. Its real aim is that the people should not commit this crime at all and there should be no occasion to resort to this punishment.
For this purpose Islam first of all purifies man: it imbues him with the fear of All-Powerful and All-Knowing Allah: to know that He is always watching him; love of Allah, with which he always wants to obey Allah and not incur His displeasure; it inculcates in him the sense of accountability for his actions in the Hereafter from which even death cannot release him. It fills him with obligation of obedience to Divine Law which follows true Faith. Then, it repeatedly warns him that zina/adultery and unchastity are heinous crimes, which Allah will call to account with a severe reckoning. This theme occurs again and again in the Qur'an.
Moreover, Islam provides all possible facilities for a man to marry. If he is not satisfied with one wife, he is allowed to take up to four. If the husband and the wife cannot get on amicably, there are provisions for separation. In case of a dispute between the two, provision exists for reconciliation through the intervention of the members of the family and failing that through the judicial courts so that they should either reconcile or separate and then remarry wherever they like.
Then Islam puts an end to all those factors which allure a man to zina or provide occasions for it. A year before the punishment for zina was prescribed, women were commanded (in Surah Al-Ahzab) to cover themselves. This was a model which was followed by all the believing women who considered the Prophet's wives and daughters patterns of virtue. Similarly, the free mixing of the men and women was prohibited.
After adopting such measures zina was declared to be a punishable offence and spreading of indecency in any way was also prohibited. Prostitution was legally banned and severe punishment was prescribed for accusing men and women of adultery and propagating it without proof. Men were enjoined to restrain their gaze so that unrestricted feasting of eyes should not lead to lust for beauty and further on to illicit love. At the same time women were also enjoined to differentiate between mahram and non-mahram relatives. This enables one to understand the entire scheme of reform, a constituent part of which is the prescribed punishment for zina. This extreme punishment is for those persons who persist in resorting to the illegal course for the gratification of their sex desires in spite of all the measures adopted to reform the individual and society. Such a punishment serves as a psychological deterrent for those who have similar tendencies.
Subhaanallah, a complete system of prevention, with so many measures, you can see how far down the line punishment is. What other faith has such an effective and organised system in place? Let us never apologise for Allah's law, but be proud of it.
Adapted from Tafheemul Qur'an by S.A Maududi.
And Allah knows best in all matters.
Last edited by Insaanah; 09-28-2011 at 10:33 PM.
i would say to you any reform or legislation was put in place to minimise the shaytan,
it was not to govern the people, it was to protect the people from what they are unable or unwilling to perceive.
judgement waits till judgement day, the guidance was to show you what this world is.. and which one reigns free.
that knowledge of a perfect religion is unchanged no?
and no matter how many people you stone to death, the shaytan will be behind the next one also.
hate the action and not the person.
what point is there of selecting islam as the religion if not to make believing people more aware..
and in my own eyes here is the paradox,
if islam does not want that its people should be flogged than maybe we should stop flogging each other. mankind is nothing but insolence and competition.. no amount of civility or government will change what we are.
we can walk about tormented or in the presence of people unwilling to torment us.
..removing tumult and oppression, i think it was in the mission statement.
let me tell you a true story,
it does not have any bearing on the above but this is my personal experience.
there was a time when i was so angry with the world that i learn to box, it got to the point where i could hit the bag about five times per second maybe six or seven if pushed.
thankfully i was learning the quran for a few years before and it got to the point where at every opportunity to hit someone i did not.
it turns out its always the same people to the point where its almost the same arguments and wording.
at that point i realised that having good understanding and faith in allah is more important than being able to defend yourself.. after all not everybody can box.
never had to hit a person since that day..and its the last thing on my mind but the first thing they want.
you can do nothing in this world except wrong your own soul.
when its not your eyes or teeth on the line then you find out what you are frightened to hurt.
i literally am my brothers keeper by the looks of it.
i hasten to add that boxing makes no difference in the end, i am under no illusion as to my own mortality.
and self righteousness does not always equate to humility (plenty of beatings to prove it)
so its better to have spent your time learning to have objective arguments and explaining ideas to people.. plant seeds and if they grow or not all praise is due to allah swt.
Last edited by M.I.A.; 09-28-2011 at 11:35 PM.
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She asked if it was part of Islam or not and I answered her accordingly. And then advised her to focus on her obligations. How's that not helpful is beyond me?format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
She didn't ask what's the wisdom behind this ruling instead she questioned an Islamic ruling and declared it immoral/disgusting. Is this the manner in which a Muslim asks a question?format_quote Originally Posted by Aprender
People say things about Islam all the time, you can't refute every tom dick harry on the street - this is not our job. Do you think these kind of people will actually buy our response to the misconceptions? Even if we do answer one thing, they will move to next, then what, keep playing tennis in their court they serve and we return? Why are people with weak imaan and without strong knowledge of basics of Islam are visiting these websites, watching videos and engaging in discussions & entertaining their suspicious arguments? And then they end up making kufr statements and some don't even accept Islamic ruling when evidence is brought forward rather they reject it or find ways to reinterpret it.
We need to sort our priorities and focus on the root problem. We need to come out of this fairy land "everyone must give dawah and respond to attacks against Islam".
I was one of those people not too long ago. So yes!format_quote Originally Posted by MSalman
I didn't think your answer was helpful because you didn't provide any further evidence to help her learn and understand why when clearly at the end it appeared that she was looking for a bit more explanation there. I am interested in learning more too. I just think you should be careful not to clump every human into one category like that.
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I dont have much knowledge in this, but if that is shariah then its right, allah azzawajal will never command us to do something bad. Whenever we have doubts think that islam does not have problems but there is a problem in my understand. Thats the way to perceive it and then go ahead for clarifications.
one more thing we must remember always that islam tries to eliminate evil from the root. so may be this stoning thing does look horrible but if puts fear in the womens and mens hearts and stop them from doing adultery
salaam
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Salaam,format_quote Originally Posted by GothiqueHey, me n my stupid questions again lol =)
OK this has been bothering me foreaaalll... ppl be talking about how islam is crazy and abusive to it's women and i'm always sticking up for us, u know saying i wear the hijab cause i WANT to, which is true, and i dress modest cause i WANT to, also true. all that. but they end up goin around that and to the topic of stoning. and honestly......idk what to say!
it's disgusting, and it's immoral!
is it really part of islam???????????? =/
Someone please help me lol im like feeling so sick watching stoning stuff and seeing how WRONG they are!
If u save one person it's as if u have saved all of mankind, and if u kill one person it's as if u have killed all of mankind unless it is a woman and she is said to have done something wrong than u can mercilessly bury her chest deep in the ground and toss medium sized rocks at her for the deliberate slow and torturous death
Ezio! What's up?
Stoning is a punishment for adultery. It applies to BOTH men and women. Adultery is a serious sin. It can destroy family life, so an effective system of deterrence is put in place to deter people committing adultery.
You cannot kill an innocent person. A person that has committed a serious sin such as rape and adultery will receive capital punishment as long as there is strong evidence.
http://en.islamtoday.net/node/659
Last edited by GuestFellow; 09-29-2011 at 05:14 AM.
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well i guess you have become hard of heart really,
half the population will be walking around without hands, stoned or worse.
better to just kill them right?
man enforcing gods law(allegedly), like the taliban the usa etc etc.. well then we move forward.
i guess if any of these problems directly effected you then maybe you would be less hard in judgement? nope, i am beginning to doubt it.
the above opinion may not even have to be taken literally, its just my perception of the various disadvantaged people i have come across which i have tried to relate as best i can to my religion.
you go on about governments of islam but the first(not sure if they were the first) people to represent islam were hopeless, sorry homeless.
try to put that in perspective about justice and the way god works.
Last edited by M.I.A.; 09-29-2011 at 09:57 AM.
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Ok thanks everyone for clarifications, and thanks insaanah very much
SO... I understand that stoning needs EVIDENCE, that's one point. And that it's purpose is to draw people away from evil thoughts. So it's like how Christianity pointed out to put to death anyone who talks bad or strikes their parents...just enforced lol.
NEW QUESTION: Even though stoning is mainly to keep the evil thoughts of crime from people's heads, as said, that still keeps the one thing there...Why would God make HUMANS have to PUNISH other humans themselves, rather than from his own...hands (?)... during the life or in the afterlife even??
Shouldn't one who committed a crime be given time to repent and beg for forgiveness, I mean surely they regret everything they've done, no? Everyone is vulnerable in the end. If you gave them prison time, they'd be able to purify themselves again. But just straight up torture??
And even if they do have to kill the person right away, they don't even SHOOT the victims, or hang them, or something that kills them fast, they gotta use stones! The stones make them suffer alot! It still makes me sick -.-
So...Shouldn't God's punishment be carried out by...idk...God?
And isn't God the most forgiving? Al rahmaaaan! He is, so why would he tell us to kill the person of the crime/sin rather than either punish them himself, or allow them to repent?
Islamic law is not implemented in a mob way sister where people run around stoning each other based upon rumours, no person has the right to implement the punishments apart from the authorative government, and that's only after a judge has decided upon the case, based upon the evidence. God has given us a law, with this law a state can be run, it might be more understandable in the following way, why do we put humans in prison for crimes? why don't we just let them do their crimes and wonder around untill God punishes them.format_quote Originally Posted by GothiqueOk thanks everyone for clarifications, and thanks insaanah very much
SO... I understand that stoning needs EVIDENCE, that's one point. And that it's purpose is to draw people away from evil thoughts. So it's like how Christianity pointed out to put to death anyone who talks bad or strikes their parents...just enforced lol.
NEW QUESTION: Even though stoning is mainly to keep the evil thoughts of crime from people's heads, as said, that still keeps the one thing there...Why would God make HUMANS have to PUNISH other humans themselves, rather than from his own...hands (?)... during the life or in the afterlife even??
This is not correct is it because a criminal has to face the consequences of breaking the law, if he steals he goes to prison if found guilty, what you're saying is, "Why should we punish him, we should let God punish him in this life or the after life" mean while this criminal thief walks around stealing? What about when someone commits murder and other humans punish him by putting him in prison, should we just let murderers walk around and say we'll wait until God punishes him in this life or the here after while in the mean time he's murdering people this just doesn't work.
When he murdered he took away someone's right to life, he took away someone's right to be a mother, he took a way someone's right to be a father, he took away someone's right to be a sister/brother, you see the crime of murder not only impacts upon the victim but the entire family that's why we don't accept it and view it as a serious crime that must be punished so that justice can be established,Islam is all about justice.
Similarly adultery is also a very serious crime, it also takes away the rights of many people and leaves them in despair/sadness for possibly their entire life, however cos of the promiscuous societies that we live in, we've come to belittle it and think of it as something minor but rather it is a great crime, it violates the rights of the wife and children, look at how many broken families there are, children growing up without fathers cos the husband ran off with another woman, women never trusting another man because their last husband cheated on them so they spend the rest of their life alone raising his kids while he's out living life to the full with some other floozy, no this isn't correct, justice must be established for the violation of rights that occurred.
Adultery also effects the kids negatively because they grow up in a dysfunctional home and subsequently experience other problems as a result, then they pass on the same life style to their kids, for example a lot of men who beat women, as they were being raised they saw their father doing it to their mother so they inherited the problem due to their father abusing the rights of his wife.
So kids who grew up in a broken family cos the father cheated also grow up experiencing problems and depression, I know a kid who slipped into severe depression after his father cheated on his mother, he became suicidal because the life he knew just fell apart, he never came home to mum and dad any more, he came home everyday to a house full of sadness and depression, he had to go for counselling cos he couldn't handle how the family had just fallen apart and his old life was completely gone. So the point is, adultery has ramifications that affect everyone, not just the two people involved. But for some reason we over look the rights of other people as insignificant.
You're argument may be that those crimes I mentioned above such as murder and theft are way more serious than adultery and warrant a punishment in order to protect people, however since when did we decide what is a serious crime and what isn't? It is God who decides what is a serious crime that warrants a punishment, and he says that adultery is a very bad crime that carries a punishment if found guilty.
Now George Bush, Tony Blair and other men in suits may disagree with this, but are you really gonna accept men in suits who legalize porn and other vices to be your law maker? These men in suits made the law that Adultery carries no punishment, does that mean their law is correct? We have this mentality that everything in Islam has to conform with the secular laws that men in suits made otherwise it's wrong, but since when did men in suits become infallible with regards to making laws, rather we should be questioning why these men in suits think they know better than God and why they legislate laws that go against his, and when did they get the right to legislate for humanity?
Our perception of good and bad changes from time to place, for example gay marriages are the new thing, people think there's nothing wrong with gay marriages these days however 50 years ago people were disgusted at the idea, which demonstrates that people's perception of good and bad changes with the time and society they live in, 50 years ago they would have been shocked and appalled at the idea of gay marriages, if you asked them, "do you ever see gay marriages being accepted in society" bet most of them would have said "no" but today they are because people view how bad something is according to the time they live in and the law that applies to it.
In our times, adultery is made out to not be such a big crime because no punishment is given to it in secular law, theft and murder are classed as much bigger crimes in western societies because of the punishments they carry, if we were raised in a society where adultery was classed as a crime on the same level as murder then it would seem normal to us. However because we live in a society that belittles adultery as something so insignificant that it doesn't even carry a sentence then we also view it as something trivial but the reality is that it's not trivial, under Islam and in the sight of the creator Adultery is on the same level as other big crimes, adultery is fraud, deception, lying, cheating, violation of rights, but the men in suits who make laws, think that's ok and should go unpunished, and instead of questioning their judgement, we question our creator. (not referring to you personally)
I wake up everyday thinking how can a society legalize porn (prostitution), strip clubs, abortions, and other evil vices, that degrade women and promote them as nothing more than mere sexual objects and then turn around and say Islam degrades women because it says they should cover up so that they are viewed and valued as people with intelligence rather than sex objects who are judged according to how big their chest is.
I find it hideous, then it occurs to me that, the men who make these secular laws, are men who are lead by their desires and not the goal of achieving the best quality of life for humanity. I often wonder when women in the west will wake up and realize what they call freedom is really slavery to the perverted desires of men.
What I don't understand even more is, why don't women speak out and protest against such laws that promote the woman as nothing more than a sex object. I don't ever recall seeing a women in the west mention how evil prostitution and strip clubs are, I mean they bang on about Islam all day but they have problems on their front door, women are being used and abused every day. Don't the women in the west find it disturbing that the men who rule their country think it's ok for prostitution to take place in the form of pornography, don't the women want to protest against women being viewed as nothing more than sex objects when a tv add comes on showing a half naked woman on top of a car. Don't they want to protest when they have to conform to a dress code that entails a short skirt or trousers that expose her rear in order to be accepted? I've gone off topic but this is something on my mind lately that I can't understand.
Sister, in reality the chances of 4 people witnessing you do the act are virtually nil, unless you're making a public show, think about how hard it would be to achieve a conviction where 4 people saw the act taking place, they actually have to see the male organ inside the female, if they walk in and the two people are just lying in the bed next to each other then that doesn't count I was told, and from the previous hadiths that sister Insannah posted, we saw that Umar and Abu Bakr told the man to conceal his sin so if you conceal it and ask for forgiveness then you won't be taken to court before a judge and tried for it, will you? It may border on your concious for the rest of your life but if you keep it between you and Allah then how will you ever be tried in a court of law? Unless you go round publicizing it.Shouldn't one who committed a crime be given time to repent and beg for forgiveness, I mean surely they regret everything they've done, no? Everyone is vulnerable in the end. If you gave them prison time, they'd be able to purify themselves again. But just straight up torture??
And even if they do have to kill the person right away, they don't even SHOOT the victims, or hang them, or something that kills them fast, they gotta use stones! The stones make them suffer alot! It still makes me sick -.-
جوري, Ramadhan, Ğħαrєєвαħ, Insaanah, tw009, GuestFellow, SafaAuditore, Who Am I?, Crystal, joyous fairy liked this post
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