I don't want to advise you one way or the other, but I had a similar question, maybe someone could help me out as well. The other day, there was a Native American who was sworn into court on a peace pipe (normally done by a bible), but as Muslims how would someone be sworn in? We can't swear on the Qur'an, so would we say something along the lines as "As Allah as a witness?"
Probably the people who would know most are the sheikhs in your area. They would know what laws you're talking about and how to deal with them. Try them out.
I don't want to advise you one way or the other, but I had a similar question, maybe someone could help me out as well. The other day, there was a Native American who was sworn into court on a peace pipe (normally done by a bible), but as Muslims how would someone be sworn in? We can't swear on the Qur'an, so would we say something along the lines as "As Allah as a witness?"
Why can't you swear on the Qur'an?
The US is a secular democratic country, so surely it allows individual to follow his/her own faith, no?
the prophet (pbuh) would swear - "by Him in whose hand is my soul"
apparently we can't swear over creation.
regarding the topic - i have the same dilemma - i would like to move as soon as possible, the fitnah i went through as a child, growing up - and even now is difficult, gets worse by the year.
the morally bankrupt world they're trying to create for the next generation makes me bury my head in my arms and just lean on the desk whenever i think about it.
especially with my oldest son growing up.
current finances make it difficult to move about.
good has become evil - and evil good:
TWO Muslim teenagers have admitted drawing burkas on advertisements of scantily-clad women because they offended their religious views. In one incident, Mohammed Hasnath and Muhammed Tahir, both 18, used black paint to draw the traditional headdress over a model in a poster for Lynx deodorant. The vandals said it was a ‘sin’ for the woman to remain uncovered and they were ‘just trying to do good’.
They also painted over faces in several other advertisements, including one for the Nicolas Cage film Drive Angry. Thames Magistrates’ Court in Bow, East London, was told the pair were caught red-handed after members of the public called police.
They had been seen painting over a female angel in the advertisement for Lynx at a bus shelter in February. Paint was also applied to the other side of the hoarding, which carried the poster for the film Drive Angry.
When police arrived the teenagers gave ‘full and frank admissions’, said Taiwo Akinrowo, prosecuting. He said: ‘They told them that the way the women had been photographed was against their religion and they said it was a sin in Islam for a male to look at twice at a woman who is not covered. ‘Both have admitted painting over them. At first, they did not think it was a bad thing to do but they accept that it was not legal because it was not their property.’
The youths admitted six counts of criminal damage.
Hasnath said: ‘If someone was to look at our wife or mother or daughter with a bad intention we would not like it, so we were just trying to do good.’ Hasnath, of Poplar, and Tahir, of Tower Hamlets, were each told to pay costs of £ 283 and were released on a 12-month conditional discharge.
The case came only days after Islamic extremists started a poster campaign proclaiming areas where Sharia law ‘enforcement zones’ have been set up. The messages order that there should be ‘no gambling’, ‘no music or concerts’, ‘no porn or prostitution’, ‘no drugs or smoking’ and ‘no alcohol’.
Community leaders in East London denounced those behind the posters as ‘small-minded idiots’.
--------------------------------------------
"Thames Magistrates’ Court in Bow, East London, was told the pair were caught red-handed after members of the public called police."
instead of catching the ones who put posters of lewd women up for other people's children to pass by and see "red-handed",
and applauding the youth for their morality and decency, the kids get slapped with £283 fines and are released on a 12-month suspended prison sentence.
where are we at?
i was pulling off prostitute adverts from phone boxes on the way to tarawih last year and three pimps surrounded me - i had to raise my voice at them and carry on to the next phone box and pull more off just to show that i was ready to cause a scene, they then called me a terrorist and walked off.
a few days later - i was with a friend and when we were pulling them off on the way back from tarawih........the police stopped us and started asking questions, i told them it was illegal and i would continue to do it, and how come they weren't doing it themselves - they said it was "no big deal".
so they let us go, then at the next set of phone booths - another set of police stopped us, i had to again raise my voice - so the cop calmed me down and explained that they monitor these phone boxes and want to catch the crooks (those things have been on phone booths in london over 30 years, and are still there this year).
more like they don't get told to stop prostitution and don't want women advertising themselves on the streets (bad image for the mayor).
near the end of ramadan - i see large official adverts from strip clubs covering the same phone booths, had to leave them as i knew the cops could pounce.
it is said that it is o.k to stay in a land not under Mulim rule if you are temporarily there for business - or are active in dawah,
but when you find yourself being corrupted, children being corrupted,
you wonder if you should be protecting the capital rather than the profit.
this video is so profound - with all the lsd and debauchery - it was like prophecy in the 1930's
a must watch for anyone who's concerned about the future:
As a muslim, what to do if I am in a country where the government applies anti-islamic laws ?
- should I follow the law ?
- should I not follow these laws and stay in that country ?
- should I leave that country ?
What do you mean by "anti-islamic" laws? Do you mean laws that go against islamic practices?
Even if there were laws that were totally islamic, people (Muslims) would still break them. It isn't that a government issues laws that are completely according to the shari'ah and so all Muslims abide by them!
The true character of a person is revealed when he is alone... and there's nobody watching him.
Just because a person seems to follow islamic laws in public doesn't mean that he follows them when he is by himself.
If you are living in a country that is not predominantly Muslim, it is to be expected that there will be laws that aren't quite according to islamic standards. The adhan may not be heard in every street and corner. The nearest masjid might be miles away from your home or place of work. Your employer may not allow you to leave work so that you can attend the Friday prayer. Stores and shops near your home may not sell 100% halal meat. There may be signs and advertisements all over the place displaying scantily clad women. Forget ads, you may be seeing actual women parading around in just bathing suits. Your neighbor might happen to be a beautiful young girl who doesn't cover herself up like Muslim women should.
As a resident of a country, you are obligated to follow all the laws of that country.
It doesn't really matter in which country you live.... whether it is islamic or not. Islam can be practiced ANYWHERE, under ANY conditions.
It may be difficult for you to follow your religion the way you want to in a non-Muslim country..... but that is not necessarily a bad thing.
Your presence may be needed in that country.... for the guidance of those who know nothing about Islam.
Leaving the country is not the solution.
And remember: Character is best built facing hardships and difficulties.
It is pointless to watch other people's houses crumbling when our own house is in need of repair and attention.
Not everyone is strong sister, especially having grown up in it and seen it as normal for many years of your life,
And the Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said:
A believer should not humiliate himself
“There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah . We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone."” [Al-Mumtahanah: 4]
Sometimes, when practicing your faith becomes a burden and evil is forced on you, hijrah can become necessary.
The Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) said: “I have nothing to do with any Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” (Sunan Abi Dawood (2274) & is a Sahih hadith, al-Irwaa’, 5/30)
And,
The Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) said, “I am not responsible for any Muslim who stays among polytheists.” They asked: ‘Why, Apostle of Allah?’ He said: ‘Their fires should not be visible to one another’, and he (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) said, “Whoever joins the polytheists and lives with them then he is like them” and he (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) said: “Migration will not end until repentance ends, and repentance will not end until the sun rises in the West.” (”Al-Musnad“, Vol.4/99, Abu Dawud, Kitab al-Jihad, Vol.3/7, Hadith 2479, and ad-Darami, Kitab as-Siyyar, Vol.2/239. Albani classifies it as Sahih. See: “Sahih al-Ja’mi’ as-Sagheer”, Vol.6/186, Hadith 7346)
Ibn al-Arabi (rahimahullah) said,
“It is obligatory to leave a place where forbidden practices are rife since it is mandatory for Muslims to demand observance of the Law.” Ibn al-Arabi, “Ahkaam al-Qur’an“, Vol. 1/484-485
In this regard, Shaykh ul Islam Ibn Taymiyyah (rahimahullah) said,
“The state of a place reflects the state of a person.
It is possible to be sometimes a Muslim and at other times a disbeliever;
sometimes sincere and at other times hypocritical;
sometimes good and pious and at other times rotten and corrupt.
Thus, a person becomes like the place of his abode.
The migration of a person from a land of disbelief and profanity to one of faith and probity is an expression of repentance
and of his turning away from disobedience and perversion to belief and obedience.
This is so until the Day of Resurrection.” “Majmu’al-Fatawa“, 18/284
But then there are the stories of the Prophets who were sent amongst wrongdoers,
One was punished for leaving, others had to leave to safeguard their faith.
So there is always a balance depending on the situation,
Finally, if anyone has arguments with Dalaa’il (evidences) that are against the Dalaa’il I presented here, then i humbly ask them to bring these arguments forth.
I think the sister meant that swearing on the Qur'an is not how we make oaths. I know they do this in western countries.
Yes, that is what I meant, but I also thought that it isn't good to physically put your hand on a Qur'an and state that you swear by it for one thing or another. It doesn't seem like a typical Islamic practice.
Not everyone is strong sister, especially having grown up in it and seen it as normal for many years of your life,
And the Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said:
A believer should not humiliate himself
“There has already been for you an excellent pattern in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people, "Indeed, we are disassociated from you and from whatever you worship other than Allah . We have denied you, and there has appeared between us and you animosity and hatred forever until you believe in Allah alone."” [Al-Mumtahanah: 4]
Sometimes, when practicing your faith becomes a burden and evil is forced on you, hijrah can become necessary.
The Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) said: “I have nothing to do with any Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” (Sunan Abi Dawood (2274) & is a Sahih hadith, al-Irwaa’, 5/30)
And,
The Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) said, “I am not responsible for any Muslim who stays among polytheists.” They asked: ‘Why, Apostle of Allah?’ He said: ‘Their fires should not be visible to one another’, and he (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) said, “Whoever joins the polytheists and lives with them then he is like them” and he (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) said: “Migration will not end until repentance ends, and repentance will not end until the sun rises in the West.” (”Al-Musnad“, Vol.4/99, Abu Dawud, Kitab al-Jihad, Vol.3/7, Hadith 2479, and ad-Darami, Kitab as-Siyyar, Vol.2/239. Albani classifies it as Sahih. See: “Sahih al-Ja’mi’ as-Sagheer”, Vol.6/186, Hadith 7346)
Ibn al-Arabi (rahimahullah) said,
“It is obligatory to leave a place where forbidden practices are rife since it is mandatory for Muslims to demand observance of the Law.” Ibn al-Arabi, “Ahkaam al-Qur’an“, Vol. 1/484-485
Assalamu alaykum.
True, a believer should not humiliate himself. For example, it is better for him to gather wood and sell it to fill his belly than go around town begging people.
But how is a believer humiliated if he remains in a country that has anti-islamic laws?
What if a believer is a revert to Islam and is struggling hard to understand his faith? What if his education is going to take a long time, for he happens to be a slow learner with little drive and motivation? And what if his financial situation does not allow him to move.... even to another city?
You have given verses where animosity with the disbelievers is highlighted. Yet, there are other verses in the Qur'an which speak about living amicably and in peace with others. Verses that speak about being just in our dealings with people. Verses that speak well of the People of the Book? Verses where we are encouraged to forgive and overlook people's mistakes and to repel evil with good. Why ignore those verses?
You quoted this hadith: The Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhe wassallam) said: “I have nothing to do with any Muslim who settles among the mushrikeen.” (Sunan Abi Dawood (2274) & is a Sahih hadith, al-Irwaa’, 5/30)
I can give you another hadith where the Prophet (saws) said something similar.... He told us to be careful about the company we kept.
It is in our power to choose the company we keep. So if you don't want to be friends with the mushrikeen, then don't befriend them. Who's going to force you?
But that doesn't mean that you must show animosity towards them... turn away from them and be unkind to them.
It doesn't mean you have to oppose them, speak against them and fight against them.
Did the Prophet (saws) act that way? No, indeed.... he always showed kindness to people... even to the mushrikeen. Even the woman who used to throw rubbish on him.... he (saws) visited her to enquire about her welfare when he learnt that she had fallen ill!
One can be kind to people without taking them as friends!
All actions are judged by intentions. Deliberately settling among the mushrikeen because you kind of like their way of life, you like the idea of being able to drink, gamble and enjoy women's company.... choosing the mushrikeen to be your friends for such reasons.... that is what is forbidden.
To choose the company of people who are not righteous and who are more interested in sinful activities... yeah, sure you will become like one of them. And that's the reason why the Prophet (saws) forbade us to settle among them... lest we became corrupted.
The point is... we don't have to take the mushrikeen as friends. But we can certainly be kind and just in our dealings with them.
Last edited by Flame of Hope; 10-25-2011 at 12:41 AM.
It is pointless to watch other people's houses crumbling when our own house is in need of repair and attention.
you are somewhat correct sister - i grew up in england - went to nursery, school, college, also studied abroad,
i am not talking about showing animosity to your neighbour or customer or business owner next to you,
i run my own small business and meet so many different types of people, i do not treat them with coldness due to their faith or lack of it - i grew up in ignorance myself and even now fall short.
what i am saying is that when you are oppressed on account of your faith (check certain laws being implemented), forbidden from practicing your faith, your women are prevented from being modest, you and your children are being forced to walk past nude posters and called a criminal for taking them down,
you tend to somehow justify to yourself reasons not to pull it down and become easier with it, when you have to shield your children's faces when walking through the tube station, look straight down at the ground and walk due to the depths the media culture has dragged people's daughters and sisters to.
it can become a little difficult - especially since man is created weak, and woman is the most alluring thing to man, confirmed in the Quran.
you do sometimes tend to sit down and wonder how Allah has given you light despite your faults,
and how much more difficult it would be for the children.
i've been to college - the majority of boys and girls from Muslim families (myself included) were far far away from Islam.
don't you tend to wonder why - and how many of their children would grow to be Kaafir?
i can remember my first day at a new job when i was around 19, i was sitting in the canteen and this asian girl starts asking me if i had a girlfriend etc, was i shy? scared?
whatever!!! - luckily for me, she was a little on the heavy side so it was easier for me to decline!
wasn't the same when i got to college - very nice girl - persistent, and engaged in pakistan! (didn't know at the time),
well - i succumbed, ended up dropping out of college in the end since we missed so many lessons and totally messed up.
alcohol, drugs, fights, fraud.
it doesn't matter how much a parent tries - children can be led astray.
even if they're Prophets:
41. So he said: "Embark ye on the Ark, In the name of Allah, whether it move or be at rest! For my Lord is, be sure, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful!" 42. So the Ark floated with them on the waves (towering) like mountains,
and Noah called out to his son, who had separated himself (from the rest):
"O my son! embark with us, and be not with the unbelievers!"
43. The son replied: "I will betake myself to some mountain: it will save me from the water."
Noah said: "This day nothing can save, from the command of Allah, any but those on whom He hath mercy!
"And the waves came between them, and the son was among those overwhelmed in the Flood. 44. Then the word went forth: "O earth! swallow up thy water, and O sky! Withhold (thy rain)!" and the water abated, and the matter was ended. The Ark rested on Mount Judi, and the word went forth: "Away with those who do wrong!" 45. And Noah called upon his Lord, and said:
"O my Lord! surely my son is of my family! and Thy promise is true, and Thou art the justest of Judges!" 46. He said: "O Noah! He is not of thy family: For his conduct is unrighteous.
So ask not of Me that of which thou hast no knowledge! I give thee counsel, lest thou act like the ignorant!" 47. Noah said: "O my Lord! I do seek refuge with Thee, lest I ask Thee for that of which I have no knowledge.
And unless thou forgive me and have Mercy on me, I should indeed be lost!"
Quran - Chapter 11
Yes. Reading those verses and hearing Nuh (alayhi salam) seeking refuge in Allah.... this line in particular:
"And unless thou forgive me and have Mercy on me, I should indeed be lost!"
This line says it all.
No matter who we are, where we may live, in whatever circumstances and situations we may be in , whether in great riches, luxury and comfort or in poverty, we all need Allah to forgive us and have mercy upon us. Each one of us has to get to that level of understanding that unless Allah forgives us and has mercy upon us, we are indeed LOST! La ilaha il Allah!
Those who live in Islamic countries aren't less in need. On the contrary, I feel that their need is greater.... for it quite possible that living in a country where Islam can be followed easily can make people ungrateful... when things get easier, people do begin to take things for granted.... and thereby, they go further and further away from the path. And not even know it.
It is pointless to watch other people's houses crumbling when our own house is in need of repair and attention.
what i am saying is that when you are oppressed on account of your faith (check certain laws being implemented), forbidden from practicing your faith, your women are prevented from being modest, you and your children are being forced to walk past nude posters and called a criminal for taking them down,
Oppressed on account of their faith? Forbidden from practicing? Women prevented from being modest? You might be thinking of France, not the UK.
i was mentioning france and considering all the hype the mass media pull up in the uk every ramadan,
they've also started these debates here,
and yes - muslims do live in france, which is relevant to the topic
when you are oppressed on account of your faith (check certain laws being implemented), forbidden from practicing your faith, your women are prevented from being modest, you and your children are being forced to walk past nude posters and called a criminal for taking them down,
It doesn't matter what the laws are.... nor how much you are prevented from practicing your faith.
You aren't successful in the Hereafter because of what you do anyway.
The Prophet (saws) told us to do what is within our capability to do. So if women are forced to comply with the laws and because of such compliance they do not wear the hijab.... then there is no blame on them.
The blame is on us only when we consciously, freely, willingly and voluntarily do things that are forbidden.
No matter how harsh and cruel an oppressor may be... and no matter how many laws may be there that prevent you from practicing your religion.... there will still remain one thing that nobody can take away from you. And that is your faith... your iman. Your firm belief in Allah and the Last Day.... which resides in the heart. The place which is most secure...
And let it be sufficient that Allah is aware whether you are a true believer or not.
In the end, it will be only matters of the heart... specifically, the intentions that will determine our fate in the Hereafter...
It is pointless to watch other people's houses crumbling when our own house is in need of repair and attention.
004:097 Khan
: Verily! As for those whom the angels take (in death) while they are wronging themselves (as they stayed among the disbelievers even though emigration was obligatory for them), they (angels) say (to them): "In what (condition) were you?" They reply: "We were weak and oppressed on earth." They (angels) say: "Was not the earth of Allah spacious enough for you to emigrate therein?" Such men will find their abode in Hell - What an evil destination!
004:097 Maulana
: (As for) those whom the angels cause to die while they are unjust to themselves, (the angels) will say: What were you doing? They will say: We were weak in the earth. (They will) say: Was not Allah's earth spacious, so that you could have migrated therein? So these it is whose refuge is hell -- and it is an evil resort.
004:097 Pickthal
: Lo! as for those whom the angels take (in death) while they wrong themselves,
(the angels) will ask: In what were ye engaged?
They will say: We were oppressed in the land.
(The angels) will say: Was not Allah's earth spacious that ye could have migrated therein?
As for such, their habitation will be hell, an evil journey's end;
004:097 Rashad
: Those whose lives are terminated by the angels, while in a state of wronging their souls, the angels will ask them, "What was the matter with you?" They will say, "We were oppressed on earth." They will say, "Was GOD's earth not spacious enough for you to emigrate therein?" For these, the final abode is Hell, and a miserable destiny.
004:097 Sarwar
: When the angels take away from their bodies the souls of those who have wronged themselves, they will ask them, "How did you live?" They will reply, "We lived on earth in weakness and oppression." The angels will say, "Was not God's land vast enough for you to go wherever you could live in peace?" The dwelling of these people will be hell fire, a terrible destination.
004:097 Shakir
: Surely (as for) those whom the angels cause to die while they are unjust to their souls, they shall say: In what state were you? They shall say: We were weak in the earth. They shall say: Was not Allah's earth spacious, so that you should have migrated therein? So these it is whose abode is hell, and it is an evil resort
004:097 Sherali
: Verily, those whom the angels cause to die while they are wronging their own souls, the angels will say to them: `What were you after?' They will say: `We were treated as weak in the land.' The angels will say, `Was not ALLAH's earth spacious enough so that you could have emigrated therein?' It is these whose abode shall be Hell, and an evil destination it is;
004:097 Yusufali
: When angels take the souls of those who die in sin against their souls, they say: "In what (plight) Were ye?" They reply: "Weak and oppressed Were we in the earth." They say: "Was not the earth of Allah spacious enough for you to move yourselves away (From evil)?" Such men will find their abode in Hell,- What an evil refuge! -
Nor (is there blame) on those who came to thee to be provided with mounts, and when thou saidst, "I can find no mounts for you," they turned back, their eyes streaming with tears of grief that they had no resources wherewith to provide the expenses.
The ground (of complaint) is against such as claim exemption while they are rich. They prefer to stay with the (women) who remain behind: Allah hath sealed their hearts; so they know not (What they miss).
There is no blame on those who are infirm, or ill, or who find no resources to spend (on the cause), if they are sincere (in duty) to Allah and His Messenger. no ground (of complaint) can there be against such as do right: and Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
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The vandals said it was a ‘sin’ for the woman to remain uncovered and they were ‘just trying to do good’.
‘Both have admitted painting over them. At first, they did not think it was a bad thing to do but they accept that it was not legal because it was not their property.’
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