Re: What was Jesus accused of that people wanted to punish him for?
format_quote Originally Posted by cs80918
What was the reason or reasons Jesus was tried?
Peace
You want to know from Islamic or Christian point of view ?
the christian concept is that there are both metaphysical and physical causes for his death
1- The metaphysical is
that it was God's plan to send him to be crucified in order to atone the sinful humans who believe in him......, hence, the crucifixion was in God's plan all along.
2-The physical is suggested to be :
1. that the Jews thought of him as committing major blasphemy in His claim of being God's Son.
2. His travel to Jerusalem where he caused a disturbance at the Temple. It was the time of Passover, when political and religious tensions were high in Jerusalem. The Gospels say that the temple guards (believed to be Sadducees) arrested him and turned him over to the Roman governor Pontius Pilate for execution.
The Islamic concept that they tried to harm,kill him (as they tried to kill other prophets before him as well ) ,but they could not
why would they try to kill him?
1. Simply cause he came with what they desire not.
The Holy Quran 1. 2:87 We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you an apostle with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!
2. He (and prophet/king David as well) was very critical of them.
Holy Quran 5:78 Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses.
3. They called him A son of adultery ,and a magician who want to led Israel astray Holy Quran4:156 That they rejected Faith; that they uttered against Mary a grave false charge. Holy Quran 5:110 and I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'
Re: What was Jesus accused of that people wanted to punish him for?
format_quote Originally Posted by cs80918
What was the reason or reasons Jesus was tried?
To reverse/undo the trespasses of Adam made when he was tried.
"Happy the nation that knows the cry of praise! They will walk in the light of your presence, Lord,
and rejoice in your name all the day – for you are the splendour of their strength,
and by your good will our standard is held high." Ps.88
Re: What was Jesus accused of that people wanted to punish him for?
format_quote Originally Posted by Al-manar
that it was God's plan to send him to be crucified in order to atone the sinful humans who believe in him......, hence, the crucifixion was in God's plan all along.
The crucifiction would not have happened if Man had not sinned. So God did not plan it anymore than He planned for Man to sin.
A simple parallel: You dont' plan to lift up your friend when he fell down unless you are planning to make him to fall down and the whole thing is a game for you. But when he fells, you lift him up if you can.
The reason for his death: Sin.
Sin is a murder of the Word of God. The physical/visible cruxifixion is just a culmination anf full manifestation of the relationship between God and Man.
Last edited by Amigo; 11-22-2011 at 05:51 AM.
"Happy the nation that knows the cry of praise! They will walk in the light of your presence, Lord,
and rejoice in your name all the day – for you are the splendour of their strength,
and by your good will our standard is held high." Ps.88
Re: What was Jesus accused of that people wanted to punish him for?
Lol.. your god seems so meek & ineffectual and not involved with the creation to even anticipate their next step. God incapable of anticipating worst yet incapable of forgiving sans drama or poor equations
Last edited by جوري; 12-01-2011 at 08:20 PM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: What was Jesus accused of that people wanted to punish him for?
It is those who are insecure who worries about that type of anticipating and pride...
"Happy the nation that knows the cry of praise! They will walk in the light of your presence, Lord,
and rejoice in your name all the day – for you are the splendour of their strength,
and by your good will our standard is held high." Ps.88
Re: What was Jesus accused of that people wanted to punish him for?
Let the Bible speak for the correct Christian answer rather than the made up reason they use to fit their dogma.
Matthew 2:1-3 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.” When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him.
Matt 2:13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.”
John 12:12-14 The next day the great crowd that had come for the festival heard that Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem. They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting, “Hosanna!” “Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!” “Blessed is the king of Israel!”
Matt 27:11-12 Meanwhile Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?” “You have said so,” Jesus replied.
John 19:14 It was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about noon. “Here is your king,” Pilate said to the Jews.
Mark 15:9 “Do you want me to release to you the king of the Jews?” asked Pilate,
Mark 15:12 “What shall I do, then, with the one you call the king of the Jews?” Pilate asked them.
Matt 27:28-29 They stripped him and put a scarlet robe on him, and then twisted together a crown of thorns and set it on his head. They put a staff in his right hand. Then they knelt in front of him and mocked him. “Hail, king of the Jews!” they said.
Luke 23:36-37 The soldiers also came up and mocked him. They offered him wine vinegar and said, “If you are the king of the Jews, save yourself.”
Matt 27:37 Above his head they placed the written charge against him: THIS IS JESUS, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
John 19:20-21 Many of the Jews read this sign, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and the sign was written in Aramaic, Latin and Greek. 21 The chief priests of the Jews protested to Pilate, “Do not write ‘The King of the Jews,’ but that this man claimed to be king of the Jews.”
Is it just me, or do we have a recurring theme among these diverse passages? Could it possibly be that he claimed to be the Messiah, the Anointed One, the King of the Jews, but his meekness did not fit their grandiose ideas for a king? Does it remind you of the passage when the Jews once before asked for a king and God provided lowly Saul whom they despised as unworthy to be their king? 1 Samuel 10:27 But some scoundrels said, “How can this fellow save us?” They despised him and brought him no gifts. But Saul kept silent.
Re: What was Jesus accused of that people wanted to punish him for?
format_quote Originally Posted by Amigo
The crucifiction would not have happened if Man had not sinned. So God did not plan it anymore than He planned for Man to sin.
A simple parallel: You dont' plan to lift up your friend when he fell down unless you are planning to make him to fall down and the whole thing is a game for you. But when he fells, you lift him up if you can.
The reason for his death: Sin.
Sin is a murder of the Word of God. The physical/visible cruxifixion is just a culmination anf full manifestation of the relationship between God and Man.
Why does God contradict himself and wants a crucifxion . He said he only needed repentance .
Ezekiel 18:21
But if a wicked man turns away from his sins and obeys my laws and does what is fair and right, he shall surely live he shall not die
Re: What was Jesus accused of that people wanted to punish him for?
format_quote Originally Posted by Amigo
To reverse/undo the trespasses of Adam made when he was tried.
format_quote Originally Posted by Amigo
The crucifiction would not have happened if Man had not sinned.
Interesting, that people believe that God made a man suffer and die for the mistake of another man who lived centuries if not thousands of years earlier.
Such unjustness should not and cannot be attributed to God.
It also implies that God did not/could not fully forgive the first man.
Such lack of forgiveness for one who commits a mistake and repents, should not and cannot be attributed to God.
Neither can a denigration of His Power to forgive at will whom He wishes.
While the Christian concept of God seems to be that God is unjust and unforgiving, the Islamic concept of God, is that He is Most Just, and He is Forgiving, Merciful for all who repent sincerely, from the very first people on earth, to all those who will ever live:
Sahih International
They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers." (7:23)
Sahih International
Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful. (2:37)
Sahih International
Then his Lord chose him and turned to him in forgiveness and guided [him]. (20:122)
All praise be to Allah, and Glorified and Exalted be He above all that is falsely attributed to Him.
Glorified be your Lord, the Lord of Honour and Power, from what they attribute unto Him!
And peace be upon the messengers.
And praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds! (37:180-182)
Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").
This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)
Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)
Re: What was Jesus accused of that people wanted to punish him for?
Also amigonote
Ezekiel 18:20
The soul that sinneth, it shall die.
(Deuteronomy 24:16)
“The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.”
The Bible is very clear that no person will be responsible for the sins of others. Each person is answerable for himself alone and cannot blame it on Adam and Eve.
This concept matches exactly the Qur’anic point on this issue.
(Quran 6:164)
“No person earns any (sin) except against himself (only), and no bearer of burdens shall bear the burden of another.”
Re: What was Jesus accused of that people wanted to punish him for?
format_quote Originally Posted by Ramadhan
And how do you know this?
I have seen it in my walks in the realm of truth.
"Happy the nation that knows the cry of praise! They will walk in the light of your presence, Lord,
and rejoice in your name all the day – for you are the splendour of their strength,
and by your good will our standard is held high." Ps.88
Re: What was Jesus accused of that people wanted to punish him for?
Sorry what I meant to say was that Jesus was a prophet of God, and he will return as the Messiah. And when he returns he will join the Muslims in prayer..
Re: What was Jesus accused of that people wanted to punish him for?
format_quote Originally Posted by Amigo
I have seen it in my walks in the realm of truth.
You still havent answered my question. Frustrated, eh? Its bound to happen cause your book is filled with these contradticons . See thats the problem, even the core belief itself is self contadictory and thereare several contradictions like these.How will you know which one to believe ie Which one was from God and which one from the devil
2 Samuel 10:18 - David slew 700 and 40,000 horsemen and Shobach the commander. 1 Chronicles 19:18 - David slew 7000 chariots and 40,000 footmen. 2 Chronicles 9:25 - Solomon had 4000 stalls for horses and chariots. 1 Kings 4:26 - Solomon had 40,000 stalls for horses. Ezra 2:5 - Arah had 775 sons. Nehemiah 7:10 - Arah had 652 sons. 2 Samuel 24:13 - SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE. 1 Chronicles 21:11-12 - THREE YEARS OF FAMINE. How did Judas die? Matthew 27:5 - Hanged himself. Acts 1:18 - And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out. 2 Samuel 6:23 - MICHAL never had a child until she died. 2 Samuel 21:8 - MICHAL had 5 sons. 2 Kings 24:8 - Jehoiachin was 18 years old when he began to reign. 2 Chronicles 36:9 - Jehoiachin was 8 years old when he began to reign. 1 Kings 16:6-8 - 26th year of the reign of Asa, Baasha reigned over Israel. 2 Chronicles 16:1 - 36th year of the reign of Asa, Baasha reigned over Israel.
Quran on the other challenges you to prove it wrong and you will never be able prove it wrong
Allah challenges you to find contradictions
Haven't the unbelievers considered if this was from other than Allah, they would find within it many contradictions?
[Noble Quran 4:82]
Another amazing challenge from Allah's Book:
If you are in doubt about it, bring a chapter like it.
[Noble Quran 2:23]
Re: What was Jesus accused of that people wanted to punish him for?
format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah
Interesting, that people believe that God made a man suffer and die for the mistake of another man who lived centuries if not thousands of years earlier.
Such unjustness should not and cannot be attributed to God.
It also implies that God did not/could not fully forgive the first man.
Such lack of forgiveness for one who commits a mistake and repents, should not and cannot be attributed to God.
Neither can a denigration of His Power to forgive at will whom He wishes.
While the Christian concept of God seems to be that God is unjust and unforgiving, the Islamic concept of God, is that He is Most Just, and He is Forgiving, Merciful for all who repent sincerely, from the very first people on earth, to all those who will ever live:
Sahih International
They said, "Our Lord, we have wronged ourselves, and if You do not forgive us and have mercy upon us, we will surely be among the losers." (7:23)
Sahih International
Then Adam received from his Lord [some] words, and He accepted his repentance. Indeed, it is He who is the Accepting of repentance, the Merciful. (2:37)
Sahih International
Then his Lord chose him and turned to him in forgiveness and guided [him]. (20:122)
All praise be to Allah, and Glorified and Exalted be He above all that is falsely attributed to Him.
Glorified be your Lord, the Lord of Honour and Power, from what they attribute unto Him!
And peace be upon the messengers.
And praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds! (37:180-182)
Peace.
Though I in no way endorse Islam (I find it to be just as obedience instead of morality based as Christianity is) I fully agree with your criticism of Chrisitan doctrine here. Vicarious redemption is one of the ugliest things about Christian thought. That I can be foregiven my wrongs for celebrating/endorsing the suffering of another innocent person, is just twisted. Why can't God just say "I forgive" without the elaborate ritual of sending Jesus to suffer for it? Why does suffering pay for sin, instead of good deeds?
Re: What was Jesus accused of that people wanted to punish him for?
No offence akhi airforce, you are a much more active and senior member here but I don't think it's fair to just present a whole bunch of contradictions like that especially since it's not what the thread topic is about. Isn't our niyyah to explain our deen to others who may have misconceptions? Wallahu'alam.. I'm just saying I don't like when people do it to us(even though it can be refuted), so I won't practice the same method.
Re: What was Jesus accused of that people wanted to punish him for?
format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce
You still havent answered my question. Frustrated, eh? Its bound to happen cause your book is filled with these contradticons . See thats the problem, even the core belief itself is self contadictory and thereare several contradictions like these.How will you know which one to believe ie Which one was from God and which one from the devil
What would that core belief be?
"Happy the nation that knows the cry of praise! They will walk in the light of your presence, Lord,
and rejoice in your name all the day – for you are the splendour of their strength,
and by your good will our standard is held high." Ps.88
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Sign Up
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Bookmarks