Would you guys say that most folks on here represent the average level of observance amongst muslims? I ask because I always thought muslims were very strict, having known a few in real life who wore burka and everything. But today a woman I know, who is very liberal, so much so that she wore a bikini at a beach I went with her to, is a muslim, or claims to be one. I did a double take when I heard this. Can she truly be a muslim? She's from the Singapore area. Maybe they are some kind of super liberal offshoot of true Islam?
I don't think she is a liberal Muslim. Liberal do not wear hijab, but I am not sure they will wear bikini in public area. I think she's just an "ID card Muslim", a Muslim who in her/his religion column in ID card is Muslim, but does not follow Islamic rule in daily life. There are many Muslim like this in Indonesia.
Belief in the shahada: "I bear witness that there is no God except Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the Messenger of Allah"
and following the 5 pillars of Islam (including 5 daily prayers, fasting in the month of Ramadaan, annual charity to the poor and needy, pilgrimage to Mecca-once in a lifetime, to those who can afford it).
So, if a person can attest to the above - then he/ she is muslim.
If they say: 'I am muslim' - then they are....we should not be questioning their sincerity about their imaan.
Only Allah knows whats in their hearts, and He is the best of Judgers, Alhamdulillah (All praise is due to Allah.)
This does not mean that they do not sin, or follow practises that fall outside the teachings of Islam.
The way I see it - imaan/ faith can be considered an 'evolution' of the self.
Some attain very high levels of piety, very early in life and seemingly without much effort.
And some - face different trials and tribulations along the way.....and may reach this point much later in life.
And some, never attain taqwa (God-consciousness) at all.
But we should never judge these people/ look down on them.
For the greatest sinner (to you and me) today, may become the greatest Wallis and lovers of Allah (subhanawataála) and his prophet (peace be upon him) oneday.
They may have performed one act in this world that was so pleasing to Allah - that He enters them into paradise, even before one who thought himself to be nearer to Allah.
Would you guys say that most folks on here represent the average level of observance amongst muslims? I ask because I always thought muslims were very strict, having known a few in real life who wore burka and everything. But today a woman I know, who is very liberal, so much so that she wore a bikini at a beach I went with her to, is a muslim, or claims to be one. I did a double take when I heard this. Can she truly be a muslim? She's from the Singapore area. Maybe they are some kind of super liberal offshoot of true Islam?
Well, there is only one Qur'aan and the teachings of the prophet Muhammad (p) which are part of Islam, and muslims are the followers.
There are unfortunately, individuals who are labeled so and so however do not abide by what they label themselves as, or either way they do not have certain knowledge, therefore they need to be taught.
If you were to ask, 'does Islam teach this?' or 'permit this', then your answer is no. Islam teaches modesty. I'm sure you've come across a number of bad apples in every society, doesnt mean they represent the whole of that society, in this case a muslim who goes around disrespecting others faith, doesnt necessarily mean that Islam teaches to be that way.
Not bothered about this 'liberal' business to be honest, either your practicing islam or either your not, however, nobody is to judge by getting angry and sticking it to people's face by calling them a kaffir or whatever it may be, it is advisable to advice them in the best of manners. Since you've been on this forum for a long period of time, i'm sure you'd know by now that Islam teaches modesty, to cover up etc, so maybe you could have atleast adviced her as it seems you were aware of this.
"Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), Al-Hayyul-Qayyum (the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists).".."[Al Qur'aan 3:2]
I don't think she is a liberal Muslim. Liberal do not wear hijab, but I am not sure they will wear bikini in public area. I think she's just an "ID card Muslim", a Muslim who in her/his religion column in ID card is Muslim, but does not follow Islamic rule in daily life. There are many Muslim like this in Indonesia.
My sentiments exactly,right on with this post brother. Not only in Indonesia but all around the world are Muslims who are just Muslims by name nor do they practise or attempt to follow Islam in any type of way. May Allah guide them all and us if we stray from our paths towards Jannah,ameen.
The woman you describe goes beyond even "liberal" Muslims, but we can't say anything about her spirituality (if or how often she prays, for example)... Although sometimes the outward can be an indication of the inward, this isn't usually the case. As for how this board represents Muslims as a whole and their level of observance, I'd have to say this board is a pretty poor example as it attracts some of the more practicing Muslims who go above and beyond what is necessary for an average Muslim, and sometimes more "strict" Muslims. (not saying that's a bad thing, just pointing out that it's not a good representation of the general Muslim population, especially the Muslims in Western lands.)
It depends really. It varies from country to country and of course person to person. As you saw this particular 'Muslim' was not observant of Islamic dress code.
Very generally, I don't think the Muslims on this forum (ones who are observant and active in Islamic activities and gaining knowledge) represent the Muslims at large in the west. Unfortunately. Allahu 'Alam (God knows best).
Muslims in Muslim countries I would expect to be more observant. In fact I did witness this in Kuwait, when the athaan (call to prayer) goes EVERYONE walks out of their houses for salah (prayer). But Islam is made easy in a way in Muslim countries, a masjid (mosque) on almost every street corner, in shopping malls, islamic book shops, being immersed in Arabic and Islamic daily life etc.
The gift of Islam that most Muslim have, passed on to them by their parents, is sometimes not taken seriously either by a lack of tarbeeyah (education and nurturing) or their surroundings or just materialism in general.
Last edited by Banu_Hashim; 12-31-2011 at 11:38 AM.
‘Say: If the ocean were ink wherewith to write out the words of my Lord, sooner would the ocean be exhausted, even if We added another ocean like it.’~Al Qu'raan (18:109)
There is difference between liberal Muslim and ID card Muslim. Liberal Muslims actually are knowledgeable people in Islam, but they interpret Islam as they want. Irshad Manji is example of liberal Muslim. ID card Muslims are very lay Muslim, which their knowledge of Islam are very low.
I hate these titles, why do people keep using them? How can you be a liberal "submitter to Allaah"? Just say she's not observant on the levels of modesty or a certain aspect of Islaam, forget the titles :/. I find it's an insult to the word Muslim. I'll never utilize these terms, but that's just me.
Someone might notbwear hijaab but if at least a level of sincerity in your deen, your salaah or level of emaan would give u the idea that you can't dress that way...
No forum will completely represent Islaam....ESPECIALLY Muslims.
Last edited by Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн; 12-31-2011 at 02:41 PM.
The woman you describe goes beyond even "liberal" Muslims, but we can't say anything about her spirituality (if or how often she prays, for example)... Although sometimes the outward can be an indication of the inward, this isn't usually the case. As for how this board represents Muslims as a whole and their level of observance, I'd have to say this board is a pretty poor example as it attracts some of the more practicing Muslims who go above and beyond what is necessary for an average Muslim, and sometimes more "strict" Muslims. (not saying that's a bad thing, just pointing out that it's not a good representation of the general Muslim population, especially the Muslims in Western lands.)
Can I ask what are some of the things that muslims on this board go above and beyond with? as I'm curious ..
"Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), Al-Hayyul-Qayyum (the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists).".."[Al Qur'aan 3:2]
I just wasn't aware that there were "ID card" muslims. It does make sense, just as there are "sunday" christians. She's the first I've met but perhaps that is simply because I don't meet many muslims. I don't live in Singapore (where she is from) or Indonesia as she does. When she told me she is muslim it surprised me very much to the point that I couldn't really find any words. Partly because I have feelings for her and was considering courting her and I have not yet told her I am an atheist. I'm a bit nervous to tell her now that I know she's a muslim, as I understand Islam forbids dating outside the faith.
(not saying that's a bad thing, just pointing out that it's not a good representation of the general Muslim population, especially the Muslims in Western lands.)
Can you explain to me what the general Muslim population in Western lands is like? I'm just curious to know your perspective on this. I live in the West so I want to see if I am noticing the same things...
I just wasn't aware that there were "ID card" muslims. It does make sense, just as there are "sunday" christians. She's the first I've met but perhaps that is simply because I don't meet many muslims. I don't live in Singapore (where she is from) or Indonesia as she does. When she told me she is muslim it surprised me very much to the point that I couldn't really find any words. Partly because I have feelings for her and was considering courting her and I have not yet told her I am an atheist. I'm a bit nervous to tell her now that I know she's a muslim, as I understand Islam forbids dating outside the faith.
"ID card" Muslim can date with anyone, but they will thinking 10 times before marry someone from other faith.
But marry an atheist?. To be honest, I am really not sure. I am sorry, buddy, I don't want to offend you, but this is honest opinion. I was one of them and I still live among them, I know how they are.
"ID card" Muslim can date with anyone, but they will thinking 10 times before marry someone from other faith.
But marry an atheist?. To be honest, I am really not sure. I am sorry, buddy, I don't want to offend you, but this is honest opinion. I was one of them and I still live among them, I know how they are
I agree.
Unless you are willing to take shahada (essentially becomeing a muslim), she will never marry you, even if she is not a practicing muslim.
However, you can take shahada just for the sake of getting married, which I see more and more muslim women are willing to do these days.
Unless you are willing to take shahada (essentially becomeing a muslim), she will never marry you, even if she is not a practicing muslim.
However, you can take shahada just for the sake of getting married, which I see more and more muslim women are willing to do these days.
Sadly this is so true. There is an interesting video I recently watched on youtube about a guy who did this, took the shahada by mouth, just to marry a "muslim" girl. The amazing thing tho is that by the Qadr of Allah (swt), he started to learn more about Islam, and instead of learning from Muslims, he went to the sources of Islam, the Qur'an and Sunnah(biography of prophet Muhammad(pbuh). And as his heart began to change, his relationship with his wife changed, they divorced as he said in his words, 'he was some coming into islam and she was someone who was going out of Islam", He is now Alhamdulillah a Muslim scholar/Da'i.
This is a unique case, but majority of those relationships don't end well.
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