Question for Western Muslims who Followed Conservative Paths to Marriage...

[Tyrion]

So, I was thinking... For those of you that grew up or spent most of your lives in western countries (Or who grew up on communities heavily influenced by western culture), how was the marriage process for you? I'm asking this to those of you who went about marriage in a really conservative way, without really ever getting to "know" your future husband/wife until shortly before or after the marriage. Was it as insanely awkward as it sounds? Is it difficult to get over the awkwardness and develop a romantic relationship, considering that you (as Muslims) have had very little exposure to relationships between members of the opposite sex? I'm just really curious.

[Who Am I?]

As a Western convert, I would like to know this myself. I'm nowhere near being ready for marriage yet, but if and when the time ever comes, this is something I would need to know.

[CosmicPathos]

the moment you start labeling certain pathways as conservative, it becomes obvious that you are not sure what you are asking for.

No, it is not awkward to marry someone and develop a relationship with them in an Islamic way.

They should do a similar video of "eastern" muslims with "western" Muslim.

[Tyrion]

the moment you start labeling certain pathways as conservative, it becomes obvious that you are not sure what you are asking for.

No, it is not awkward to marry someone and develop a relationship with them in an Islamic way.

They should do a similar video of "eastern" muslims with "western" Muslim.

Must you criticize everything? -__- Conservative is a word that has a meaning which I think was used correctly here. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm asking for, and I think only a fool would deny that there is an important distinction between "eastern" and "western" Muslims. Perhaps not as extreme as some would like to make it, but it's there. Now lets just stick to the topic and the questions that were asked, por favor.

[Who Am I?]

I don't think brother Cosmic meant that in a condescending or disrespectful manner. I at least didn't take it as such.

He is right though in that I don't know what I want, other than to be a better man.

[CosmicPathos]

Must you criticize everything? -__- Conservative is a word that has a meaning which I think was used correctly here. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm asking for, and I think only a fool would deny that there is an important distinction between "eastern" and "western" Muslims. Perhaps not as extreme as some would like to make it, but it's there. Now lets just stick to the topic and the questions that were asked, por favor.

I was not criticizing. I am not sure what you are asking for. You are a Muslim? So you should be seeking marriage in an Islamic way? So you are saying Islamic way is conservative? Or are you saying that there are less conservative ways to get married while still sticking to Islamic ways?

Ooh trust me, after being on these forums, its clear to everyone to see the "divide" between "eastern" and "western" Muslims. Sh Munajjid is not qualified to call praising HP wrong just because he is not aware of the "nuances" of British culture.

[Aprender]

I'm curious Tyrion, do the Muslims in the West practice a different brand of Islam? I've noticed from your posts here you say things that indicate that...but I'm wondering what you're noticing exactly that's different in practice? I'm new to Islam so you'll have to excuse me if I might be a little blinded here.

Now I see in regards to "proper" dress for Muslim women in the U.S. is certainly not the same that you'd see in Saudi Arabia obviously. But I feel like I might be missing something? Are Western Muslims supposed to be less conservative because of the culture we live in? I'm not so sure I see it that way.

If that is so then the Muslim community where I live must be very conservative as they pretty much stick to the deen and they're a fairly young group of Muslims from my perspective but...Allah knows if they're good or not but I tell you many of the sisters and brothers around here are very respectful and stick to the religion which can be hard in a highly sexualized environment especially at the university. Because of that behavior, I've seen some barbie party girls and guys even enter the deen because they liked the way the Muslims around here behave...

I know it's a little off topic but in regards to marriage I don't see how it can be too awkward as once you get to the university level at least, you'll be interactive with people of the opposite sex in classes somewhat so I don't know if that exposure is so "little". I don't see the complete segregation of the sexes in our society...

[esperanza]

interesting post...one obversation i have,,,many western muslims...wh ohave reverted seem to muh more conservative or true to their religion than quite a number of bron muslims who get influenced by the western way whereas reverts are turning away from the western way

[Who Am I?]

the moment you start labeling certain pathways as conservative, it becomes obvious that you are not sure what you are asking for.

No, it is not awkward to marry someone and develop a relationship with them in an Islamic way.

They should do a similar video of "eastern" muslims with "western" Muslim.

Wow.... just.... Wow.

Now I'm sitting here thinking of all the "brown" people I have met and wondering if I ever said anything that stupid to any of them.

I do want to get one of those T-shirts, though.

[Reflections]

Trust in Allah swt..that's the key point to rememeber. Theres the mixed emotions, but you'll knowfor yourself whether you see a future or not with the potential. As long as you do your istikhaara, have your parents dua's,have Allahs barakah and rahmah showering down and both parties-the girl and the guy are happy then inshaAllah it'll be fine. It isn't easy finding good proposals these days, so when you do get hold of one, don't let go of it.

[~Zaria~]

Assalamu-alaikum,

I think that the use of the term 'conservative' to describe practises followed, as prescribed in Islam - really should not raise so many eyebrows.

The unfortunate reality is, that muslims who chose to practise their deen as laid out in Quraan and Sunnah, are often labelled as 'conservative' - not just with regards to marriage, but many other aspects of life as well.

Take as examples:

- The muslim who does not watch TV/ goes to the movies/ listens to music.

- The young woman who choses to wear niqaab.

- The man who refuses to shake the hands of female collegues at work.....


The list is endless......

More often than not, these muslims - who are doing nothing more than practising their deen as commanded by Allah (subhanawata'ala) and His rasul (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) are labelled as being 'conservative'.
(I am facing this at present - needing to answer to my family/ work collegues as to why I have become so 'radical'. In actual fact, all that has changed is submitting to that which has been commanded to us all.)


With regards to the topic, Im really interested to hear the responses here.

You would expect that most muslim marriages have occured in this manner......reality, unfortunately tells a different story.....

In my opinion - when 2 people embark on marriage with the right intentions, knowing each others rights as husband and wife, and having the same goals in life - in serving Allah (subhanawata'ala) and working towards not this dunya, but the aakhirah.......then such a marriage is filled with unmentionable noor and barakat.

And loving someone - for the sake of Allah (and not stemming purely out of physical desire and infatuation) - is the most profound form of love that can exist between two people.


Salaam

[syed_z]

(I am facing this at present - needing to answer to my family/ work collegues as to why I have become so 'radical'. In actual fact, all that has changed is submitting to that which has been commanded to us all.)

Asalaam O alaikum...


The Prophet (saw) said “Islaam began as something strange and it will return to being strange as it began. So Toobaa is for the strangers.” "It was said: ‘Who are they, O Messenger of Allaah?’ He, sallAllaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam, said: ‘Those who rectify (themselves/others) when the people have become corrupt.’”

Good news is for you sister MashA'Allah


A word of advise, be humble and not harsh with those who oppose you as im sure being patient is not easy when you have several people opposing you and pray for them..... InshA'Allah your humbleness will make them realize their errors.

[Rhubarb Tart]

In my opinion - when 2 people embark on marriage with the right intentions, knowing each others rights as husband and wife, and having the same goals in life - in serving Allah (subhanawata'ala) and working towards not this dunya, but the aakhirah.......then such a marriage is filled with unmentionable noor and barakat.

No sorry I disagree. There is reason why scholars tells us to find compatible person, so factors you suggested is not enough. For instance, a brother might want a wife to stay with him and his mother. Now, you as potential do not want to, do you think that you have to accept because this brother is religious and practicing? No......

I would advise the person to get to know as much as they can.
There is Islamic way of getting to know each other via present of relative (brother, father, uncle).

[GuestFellow]

So, I was thinking... For those of you that grew up or spent most of your lives in western countries (Or who grew up on communities heavily influenced by western culture), how was the marriage process for you? I'm asking this to those of you who went about marriage in a really conservative way, without really ever getting to "know" your future husband/wife until shortly before or after the marriage. Was it as insanely awkward as it sounds? Is it difficult to get over the awkwardness and develop a romantic relationship, considering that you (as Muslims) have had very little exposure to relationships between members of the opposite sex? I'm just really curious.

Salaam,

Well I'll share my first experience, since I already shared it to other members...very recently. O___o

I'm not married but I was about to get engaged,. My parents were eager to get me married, so I was introduced to this girl. It was extremely bizarre and very awkward. My face was so red and I tried my best not to burst out laughing. It didn't help that she was giggling. Most of the time, I didn't look at her, too shy.

I didn't knew nothing about her, except that she wants to work at a hospital and her educational background.

I found the entire process extremely embarrassing and tiring.

Oh and I would have behaved like this throughout the wedding. I'm too shy.

[~Zaria~]

No sorry I disagree. There is reason why scholars tells us to find compatible person, so factors you suggested is not enough. For instance, a brother might want a wife to stay with him and his mother. Now, you as potential do not want to, do you think that you have to accept because this brother is religious and practicing? No......

I would advise the person to get to know as much as they can.
There is Islamic way of getting to know each other via present of relative (brother, father, uncle).

Assalamu-alaikum,

This is true - the couple involved can get to converse in the presence of a mahram.
But for how long?
Weeks? Months?
Even this is insufficient time to really know a person.

If a couple both have the intention for nikkah......the families as well as the couple meet.......if they are agreeable, they go back home and read Istikharaah Salaah.
If both parties are satisfied thereafter - then a date for nikkah should be set.
Simple.

This basically means that you are seeking guidance from Allah on a critical decision in your life - and then, leaving the rest to the wisdom and plan of your Creator.

No matter how long one spends in 'getting to know' their potential spouse, pre-marriage - there will ALWAYS be differences of opinions that will crop up here and there - such as living arrangements, etc.
It may not happen immediately after the nikkah......these are matters that couples face throughout their marriage.

So, its not a reason to 'get to know each other as much as they can'.
This unfortunately does not gurantee anything.

However, a marriage based on the reasons I had mentioned above, has a much better chance of success, despite lifes challenges - if Allah wills.

Salaam

[Rhubarb Tart]

Salam,

Sorry I still disagree. What do you think the father should depend on? the potential family opinion?

Most family even when the person is NOT practicing often say good think about that person.

Do you think first, second or third visit is enough for a family to know that the potential has history of violence towards previous spouse, or the fact that s/he were married before, or they just want the green card or visa? Or the person had several partners putting you at risk of STDs?

Tbh it is up to the potentials and their families to choose how long it takes.

I encourage everyone to know as much as they can, because this is lifelong commitment. And few meetings between families and potentials where both sides exaggerate are not enough.

There was actually one lecture on the subject and I remember the scholar (he apologised for having to say it, but it must be done according to him) advises potentials to make sure they and whomever they want to marry have full health check! I will find the lecture ishallah and post it here.

And another thing, these disagreements such as living arrangements can cause marriage breakdown. Both parties should know what they want other than a religious person and make it clear to their potentials. And put it on a marriage contract.

No point getting married then having a marriage crisis two weeks later ( I know of couple that got divorced within three weeks because one of them found out the other don’t and wont practice).

[GuestFellow]

Do you think first, second or third visit is enough for a family to know that the potential has history of violence towards previous spouse, or the fact that s/he were married before, or they just want the green card or visa? Or the person had several partners putting you at risk of STDs?

Salaam,

I agree that we should find out as much as we can about the potential spouse. But, there are limits. Like STDs. It does not sound practicable to learn about the other person's sexual history. It would be very awkward to raise this issue.

And another thing, these disagreements such as living arrangements can cause marriage breakdown. Both parties should know what they want other than a religious person and make it clear to their potentials. And put it on a marriage contract.

I have to agree here. I personally would not marry a women who puts her career first.

[~Zaria~]

Under ideal circumstances, someone close to You, and who has Your best interests at heart - introduces you to a potential spouse.
In this way, you can be more trusting of his/ her opinion (as they will be wanting the best for you).

I do realise, that in reality - this does not happen as often as we would like.

I am not suggesting that we consider for marriage any stranger who knocks on our door.
We have to take our own precautions, and get members of the family to research the persons background as thoroughly as possible.

BUT: do understand that even if you were to meet your potential spouse multiple times - does this mean you can not be fooled?
How many meetings will it actually take to find out about someones criminal record, how many partners they have had, or any history of violence?
10? 20? 30?

Tbh, its as easy to hide such facts for months......years......until oneday the truth is revealed.

Which is way we put our faith in Allah.
We turn to HIM for guidance - by means of Istikhaarah salaah.
We ask Allah (subhana wata'ala):

"......Oh Allah! If in Your Knowledge this action ------------------------------------------------ (which I intend to do) is better for my religion and faith, for my life and end [death], for here [in this world] and the hereafter then make it destined for me and make it easy for me and then add blessings [baraka'] in it, for me. O Allah! In Your Knowledge if this action is bad for me, bad for my religion and faith, for my life and end [death], for here [in this world] and the hereafter then turn it away from me and turn me away from it and whatever is better for me, ordain [destine] that for me and then make me satisfied with it.'


Place your trust in Allah.
Your Rabb only wants what is best for you.
Ya, SubhanAllah!

But, WE need to do our part in this as well......by seeking marriage in the correct way, and in the manner shown to us by our Nabi (sallahu alaihi wasalam).


If you do not agree with this, then this is fine.....

We can chose to agree.....to disagree here

Salaam

[Tyrion]

I agree that we should find out as much as we can about the potential spouse. But, there are limits. Like STDs. It does not sound practicable to learn about the other person's sexual history. It would be very awkward to raise this issue.

Are you joking? I think that's definitely an important and practical question to ask a potential spouse... Would you rather wake up one morning to find out that the weird feeling in your pants is some STD your wife gave you? Awkward or not, it's important.


Anyway, keep the answers coming.

[GuestFellow]

Are you joking? I think that's definitely an important and practical question to ask a potential spouse... Would you rather wake up one morning to find out that the weird feeling in your pants is some STD your wife gave you? Awkward or not, it's important.


Anyway, keep the answers coming.

Salaam,

Easy to be said than done. Imagine meeting your first potential spouse. During a conversation, you say, hey lovely, do you have Sexually Transmitted Diseases? How do you think she will react? If I was her, I would probably slap you and storm out.

How would you put this in practice without offending her?