To be a good Muslim do I have to hate Homosexuals ?

[truthseeker63]

To be honest I don't agree with Homosexuality but what about Homosexuals who are celibate should they be killed under Islamic law known as Sharia for having Homosexual desires or feelings for the same sex or are Homosexuals only killed for the act ? Many Homosexuals say it is unfair for Hetrosexuals to demand that Homosexuals be celibate when Hetrosexuals have sex in my view if Homosexuals desire sex and or a family they should marry a person of the opposite sex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celibacy

['Abd-al Latif]

Bro the distinction is as simple as this: you are either gay or you aren't. What you've done after that is only going to make things worse. It cannot be said that 'it is OK to be homosexual as long as you don't practise your desires'.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (rahimullah) said:

With regard to homosexuality some of the scholars said that the hadd punishment for it is the same as the hadd punishment for zina, and it was said that it is less than that. But the correct view on which the Sahaabah were unanimously agreed is that both are to be killed, the active and the passive partners, whether they are married or not. The authors of al-Sunan narrated from Ibn Abbaas (may Allah be pleased with him) that the Messener () said: "Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done." And Abu Dawood narrated from Ibn 'Abbaas concerning the unmarried person who commits a homosexual act that he said: He is to be stoned. And something similar was narrated from ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib (may Allah be pleased with him). The Sahaabah did not differ concerning the ruling that the homosexual is to be executed, but they differed concerning the methods. It was narrated from Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he is to be burned, and from others that he is to be executed.

It was narrated from some of them that a wall is to be knocked down on top of him until he dies beneath it.

And it is said that both should be detained in the foulest of places until they die.

It was narrated from some of them that he should be taken up to the highest place in the town and thrown down from it, to be followed with stones, as Allah did to the people of Loot. This was narrated from Ibn 'Abbaas. According to the other report, he is to be stoned. This was the view of the majority of the salaf. They said: because Allah stoned the people of Loot, and stoning is prescribed for the zaani by analogy with the stoning of the homosexual. Both are to be stoned, whether they are free or slaves, or one of them is the slave of the other, if they have reached the age of puberty. If one of them has not reached the age of puberty, he is to be punished but not stoned, and none is to be stoned except one who has reached puberty. (Al-Siyaasah al-Shar’iyyah, pg. 138)

[ardianto]

It cannot be said that 'it is OK to be homosexual as long as you don't practise your desires'.

Can we punish someone for something that is not his fault?.

No one wants to be homosexual. If they could choose they would choose become heterosexual, but life made them become homosexual. Like like this is absolutely not easy. They must struggle to eliminate their desire because they know is sin if they do sexual relationship with same gender. There are many of them failed in this matter. But there are some of them who do not give up and always try to bring themselves closer to Allah. Some of them had been failed, but they try to repent, and try to bring themselves closer to Allah too.

Should we punish those who are in trial but try to walk on the way of Allah?.

['Abd-al Latif]

Can we punish someone for something that is not his fault?.

No one wants to be homosexual. If they could choose they would choose become heterosexual, but life made them become homosexual. Like like this is absolutely not easy. They must struggle to eliminate their desire because they know is sin if they do sexual relationship with same gender. There are many of them failed in this matter. But there are some of them who do not give up and always try to bring themselves closer to Allah. Some of them had been failed, but they try to repent, and try to bring themselves closer to Allah too.

Should we punish those who are in trial but try to walk on the way of Allah?.

Being homosexual is a choice, not an innate quality. Lut said to his people: "...'Do you commit the worst sin such as none preceding you has committed in the 'Alamîn (mankind and jinn)? (80) 'Verily, you practise your lusts on men instead of women. Nay, but you are a people transgressing beyond bounds (by committing great sins).'" (Qur'an 7:80-81).

Innately we are all Muslim (submitters to Allah, His law and command) until the parents make their children a Jew, Christian or otherwise. Innately, by our natural disposition, by our common sense and natural instincts we have a desire to be with the opposite gender unless one's heart deviates and becomes perverted and corrupt.

Having said this, a homosexual should be called towards what is right and correct and given a chance to repent and mend their ways. If they refuse then the Islamic stance is clear about their affairs.

[TrueStranger]

I was watching a show where a homosexual claimed to have been a celibate for more than 25 years. The dude was old. I think the act of committing a homosexual act is a choice. As for attraction, I do not know if that is much of a choice. Can a person, whether a man or a woman, truly know why they are attracted to a certain type of beauty?

[ardianto]

Being homosexual is a choice,

Being homosexual is not a choice. But practicing homosexual, it's a choice. Yes, there's no homosexual who "born this way". They become homosexual because the bad experiences that they never expect. But then they face two choices, follow they wrong desire to same gender, or try to control their desire to prevent them fall into sin.

What Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (rahimullah) said actually about those who practicing homosexuality, not about homosexual who always try to control their desire. But you did not differentiate it in the statement that I have quoted in my first post. That's why I need to argue you.

This is discussion, isn't this.

[Abu.Yusuf]

it is a sin and deviating from nature to be homosexual [to even have the feeling or desire for it]

As for the punishment, the Shariah punishments are for those commit crime on their tongue or actions - not for their hearts. This is because as Muslims we do not judge peoples hearts, but only the persons actions. So a person would be punished based on that and not just for having desires. If he implements his desires then the punishment would apply and he could also be punished for propagating it as well.

[جوري]

Hate the sin not the sinner..

[CosmicPathos]

is hate the sin not the sinner thing mentioned in Quran? If that is teh case then why would Allah put sinners in Hellfire? Obviously Allah hates sinners (those who dont repent) as well as their sins.

[Scimitar]

From my understanding, if the homosexual repents from his sin and promises to refrain from doing it ever again, he can escape execution. Is this correct or not?

Scimi

[جوري]

is hate the sin not the sinner thing mentioned in Quran? If that is teh case then why would Allah put sinners in Hellfire? Obviously Allah hates sinners (those who dont repent) as well as their sins.

We don't really know who is sinning do we? It is indeed for Allah swt to judge.. I have posted here the story of a Muslim man who struggled with homosexual feelings, used to have SSE and feel like crap and his struggles and prayers to get over them.. he eventually got married (to a woman) had children and started a website to help other people who love Allah more than deviant sex do the same..

[KDhieb]

We don't really know who is sinning do we? It is indeed for Allah swt to judge.. I have posted here the story of a Muslim man who struggled with homosexual feelings, used to have SSE and feel like crap and his struggles and prayers to get over them.. he eventually got married (to a woman) had children and started a website to help other people who love Allah more than deviant sex do the same..

salam sister,
where have you posted this story?

[جوري]

salam sister,
where have you posted this story?

on this forum & several times. Perhaps a mod can find it on one of our numerous homosexuality threads..

[GuestFellow]

Salaam,

First, let's define some terms here.

Homosexuality means when you are sexually attracted to people of the same gender. People can be attracted to the most unusual living beings and objects. You have people that are attracted to children, some are attracted to animals while others are attracted to objects. I have head some people are attracted to dead bodies.

Sexual attraction is not a choice. You can control who you have sex with. There is a clear distinction between sexual attraction and the sexual act. As long as homosexuals do not have sex with people of the same gender, they have not committed a sin. It is as simple as that.

If you people believe sexual attraction is punishable by death, then you might as well execute all the married Muslim men who are attracted to women (other than their wife), even though they have not committed adultery.

Hope you see where I'm going with this.

[truthseeker63]

From my understanding, if the homosexual repents from his sin and promises to refrain from doing it ever again, he can escape execution. Is this correct or not?

Scimi

Can someone answer this question ?

[GuestFellow]

It cannot be said that 'it is OK to be homosexual as long as you don't practise your desires'.

So if your attracted to a girl who you are not married to, does that mean you committed a sin? Since your a guy, I'm certain you must have like many women, as most men do.

What is your definition of a homosexual anyway?

Some feelings cannot be eliminated. Like anger cannot be eliminated but it can be controlled.

[truthseeker63]

From my understanding, if the homosexual repents from his sin and promises to refrain from doing it ever again, he can escape execution. Is this correct or not?

Scimi

Is Scimi correct ?

[GuestFellow]

^ It depends. Usually homosexuals will get executed if they had sex in public...eww.

['Abd-al Latif]

Being homosexual is not a choice. But practicing homosexual, it's a choice. Yes, there's no homosexual who "born this way". They become homosexual because the bad experiences that they never expect. But then they face two choices, follow they wrong desire to same gender, or try to control their desire to prevent them fall into sin.

What Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (rahimullah) said actually about those who practicing homosexuality, not about homosexual who always try to control their desire. But you did not differentiate it in the statement that I have quoted in my first post. That's why I need to argue you.

This is discussion, isn't this.

Bro, being homosexual is a choice. No one is born homosexual nor does a human being by their natural disposition desires the same gender – ever. Allah created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. This is proven by the ayah that I quoted of Lut in my last post where the Prophet of God clearly says that it was a practise never done before; in other words the people chose this way.

Now as for one who had bad experiences, you've pretty much answered this question yourself i.e. the bad experiences is what caused them to be who they are from how Allah naturally created them, but to chose from one's heart to be a homosexual was still a choice and to continue to be this way was still a decision they made. The heart is free to choose what it wants and no one can compel it in any way or form to love or desire something. So with this understanding it can be confidently said that there is no difference between the one who is homosexual and the one who acts upon their desires (except that the latter is worse!); just as there is no difference between a man and woman dating and those who commit zina in their relationship because it is too close to the act of zina itself. Both are doing wrong but the one's who are satisfying their desires are in a worse state than just dating. No Muslim in his right mind will make dating or anything of the sort as anything less than strictly forbidden because one chooses celibacy! What would then be the case of a repugnant and abhorrent act of homosexuality?

And finally, Ibn Taymiyah's quote clearly mentions those who are passive and active are to be punished.

['Abd-al Latif]

So if your attracted to a girl who you are not married to, does that mean you committed a sin? Since your a guy, I'm certain you must have like many women, as most men do.

What is your definition of a homosexual anyway?

Some feelings cannot be eliminated. Like anger cannot be eliminated but it can be controlled.

Akhi, let's break this down.

First, attraction and even love is pretty much initiated by oneself and no one else is to blame for this. This happens by just a single look. No one asked you to look, you make a conscious decision and it resulted in feelings. If this look was unintentional and you still have feelings then Allah is testing you with it to see what you will do.

Second, when one loves someone else we never, ever have to ask "does he like the same gender or the opposite gender" because naturally it is eccentric to find one attracted to the same gender. We always expect to have feelings for the opposite gender and anything different to this is – and always has been – considered deviated. And rightly so.

Third, the 'look' can be broken down in two categories:

1 - If this was to look at the one whom you wanted to marry and it resulted in you having feelings for that person then there is nothing wrong with that. But you will be held accountable if you act upon these feelings. This is proven in the hadeeth where the Messenger asked Allah not to hold him accountable for what he is not in control of (i.e. that he loved one of his wives ('Aisha) more than the other wives);

2 - If this look was a careless gaze, then this is of the poison arrows of shaytan where he is trying to trap you into sin. Again you will not be held accountable for your feelings but you will be held accountable for what you do;

Forth, all the definitions of homosexuality that I hold are what the Qur'an and Sunnah say and that is that it is Islamically considered to be a homosexual when one acts upon the thoughts and feelings for the same gender. Anything more than that is obviously included.