So, it looks like the guy was radicalized as he seems to have been in contact with a terrorist overseas.
Just a thought, but I wonder if we can as U.S. citizens can push for banning of ISIS social media account as part of threats to the United States under some form of exception within the First Amendment.
A documentary by jeremy scahill on the practice of global assassinations carried out by the criminal ameican government, it also features interviews with the family of respected brother imam anwar al awlaki:
If we could all see one another as God's creations...
(mildly) Perhaps, we can start by looking at the sadness of the "other". What do you think, Dan, of the photo of the terrified toddler being bombed in Syria? syria attack
Please, everyone, let us not just mourn those we see as "like us". Let us mourn all those innocents who suffer. And in our grief, transcend our petty Selves.
May God, the Gentle, Help us to better know and understand one another... and ourselves.
I read this news today and was following bits a pieces of it throughout the day. I noticed that there are a lot of questions that come to one's mind. As the narrative goes, The suspect, Farook, attended the party at the hall with his coworkers and left. His wife didn't go to the party with him. Shortly after he left the party, according to the police chief, he returned with his wife and went on a shooting spree.
The couple did not have any past influence in their lives of terrorist mind set. They weren't even extremely religious couple to suspect them that the attack could be religiously motivated. The guy didn't have facebook neither twitter accounts, which these fools of Daesh/ISIS usually have and are displaying flags with Verses of Quran etc etc.
While he appeared not to have profiles on [COLOR=#D84189 !important]popular social media sites[/COLOR] like Facebook and LinkedIn http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=281256
“He was very religious. He would go to work, come back, go to pray, come back. He’s Muslim,” the father said. https://www.rt.com/usa/324501-san-bernardino-suspects-dead-identified/
...praying and going to work and coming home is a sign of a practicing muslim and not a Khawarij (Extremist).
Most important of all the couple were killed outside their apartment - far away from the place of the shooting - they were not killed or caught outside the place of party.
Burguan said that police investigating the shooting went to a house in Redlands on Wednesday afternoon, and saw the couple take off in a black SUV. Police pursued the car to San Bernardino, where the gun battle ensued that left Farook and Malik dead. http://pakobserver.net/detailnews.asp?id=281256
The shoot-out occurred after investigators went to an apartment in nearby Redlands where a vehicle was seen leaving, Burguan said. Officers pursued the vehicle and engaged in a shoot-out with the suspects, leading to the death of one male and one female. An officer was injured, but his injuries were not life-threatening, the police chief said. https://www.rt.com/usa/324501-san-bernardino-suspects-dead-identified/
...even as the investigations continue the police is still not sure if the couple whom they consider as prime suspects were really involved in the shooting or no.
A person named Syed R. Farook was employed by the San Bernardino County Health Department as an environmental health specialist, but "it was not clear if that was the same person involved in the shooting," the Los Angeles Times reported, citing public records. https://www.rt.com/usa/324501-san-bernardino-suspects-dead-identified/
Most important of all the police chief says that they are not sure if the suspect who left the party, Farook himself, was the same person who returned and did the shooting.
When asked what might have led to the shooting, Burguan said there had been some kind of dispute at the meeting, and that someone had left, but they don’t know if that person had been involved in the shooting. https://www.rt.com/usa/324501-san-bernardino-suspects-dead-identified/
About four hours after the morning carnage, police hunting for the killers engaged in a shootout two miles from the social services center that left the two suspects dead and a black SUV riddled with gunshots. Farook and Malik were found with assault rifles and semi-automatic handguns, and were wearing tactical gear, but not bulletproof vests, authorities said. http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/12/3/san-bernardino-shooting-motive-searched.html
The Carnage took place and suspects were caught after 4 hours near the Center, very conveniently they are still not far away from the place of incident?
A nearby witness had to say this...
They had indeed escaped. One witness, Glenn Willwerth, who runs a business across the street, said he heard 10 to 15 shots and then saw an SUV with tinted windows pull out “very calmly, very slowly” and drive off. http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2015/12/3/san-bernardino-shooting-motive-searched.html
...The witness didn't see who left, whether they were even the suspected couple or someone else, because the SUV windows were tinted!
Authorities pursued the SUV, and a gun battle erupted around 3 p.m. One officer among nearly two dozen involved in the shootout suffered a minor injury and spent the night at a hospital.
So after attack they're still driving around their own apartment conveniently, as if nothing happened, after 4 hours of the attack, and then they attack the police who tried to stop them.
A guy who worked hard to bring his wife and then lives peacefully and himself has been a peaceful citizen for almost entire life he spend here in US suddenly is quick second wore a gear and automatic weapons and started shooting people at his center whom he has worked with who know him for a very long time and they say he never had behavior ......
The FBI says Malik (Wife) came to the U.S. in July 2014 on a Pakistani passport and a so-called fiancée visa. To get the visa, she had to submit to an in-person interview and biometric and background checks to ensure she wasn't a threat to public safety or national security.
....both didn't have any criminal or violent background...
There are question marks all over this incident and its investigation. And I'm sure that there will be many more questions. Problem of the matter is that they were not caught, they died - so the suspects did not live to tell us why they suddenly became opposite people and did this horrific act?
Yes, with anything else, there will remain questions, but we're closer to having some answered.
I don't exactly know and therefore can't say anything with hundred-percent certainty, but it looks like the man at least was radicalized online as he seemed to be in touch with some terrorists overseas.
I feel like in cases like this usually some form of grooming phase happens that begins with the demonization of the the West, teaches hatred of the government, dulls the conscience with clamoring of how killing innocents is "okay" as vengeance because of their presumed culpability for living under that government, invites rage with pictures/videos of suffering Muslims elsewhere in the world and all of the hate-mongering is then juxtaposed with DIY cut-and-paste "Islam" that perverts Islam to justify the unjustifiable. Actually, I once read that there are Internet hubs for people just for this purpose, which as sickening as it sounds, allows extremists to recruit with "special" invitations and is subsequently followed with "sharing" and radicalization.
The radicalized persons then think they're taking some kind of justice for peoples killed elsewhere that they think has happened due to the governments that are presumed to all comprise of monsters and yet they themselves become monstrous perpetrators of horrific acts. The matter from A to Z reminds me of this Friedrich Nietzche quote: “Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”
Computer forensic experts will be able to assemble the piece of the puzzle together to tell the "story" that they [the deceased] themselves cannot tell because people leave digital footprints in ways unfathomable to the laypersons every single time they use technology to communicate or use for any other purpose.
format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
There are question marks all over this incident and its investigation. And I'm sure that there will be many more questions. Problem of the matter is that they were not caught, they died - so the suspects did not live to tell us why they suddenly became opposite people and did this horrific act?
Thank you my sister for your thoughts. Always good to read your shares, MashA'Allah.
I definitely agree with you that this phase does begin in the lives of those who are radicalized, atleast in the early stages I assume like you explained. But the question still remains, as to when did this sort of grooming took place in the lives of those 2 individuals?
There is no evidence for that, subhan'Allah. Rather the evidence we're getting is on the contrary.....
Then there is the disconnect between Wednesday’s murderous rampage and the visible behavior that preceded it. Less than three hours before he would open fire on his co-workers, Farook sat at a conference room table with six colleagues from the San Bernardino County health department where he had worked for the past five years, laughing with them as they heard the good news that their workloads would be lighter next year. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/2015/12/03/a0c7861e-99ef-11e5-b499-76cbec161973_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_shooter1010p%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
...their neighbors, friends, relatives, all had said it was unthinkable why he did this? ..again the problem is, they didn't remain alive to tell the world why!
format_quote Originally Posted by Search
I feel like in cases like this usually some form of grooming phase happens that begins with the demonization of the the West, teaches hatred of the government, dulls the conscience with clamoring of how killing innocents is "okay" as vengeance because of their presumed culpability for living under that government, invites rage with pictures/videos of suffering Muslims elsewhere in the world and all of the hate-mongering is then juxtaposed with DIY cut-and-paste "Islam" that perverts Islam to justify the unjustifiable. Actually, I once read that there are Internet hubs for people just for this purpose, which as sickening as it sounds, allows extremists to recruit with "special" invitations and is subsequently followed with "sharing" and radicalization.
The radicalized persons then think they're taking some kind of justice for peoples killed elsewhere that they think has happened due to the governments that are presumed to all comprise of monsters and yet they themselves become monstrous perpetrators of horrific acts. The matter from A to Z reminds me of this Friedrich Nietzche quote: “Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”
Computer forensic experts will be able to assemble the piece of the puzzle together to tell the "story" that they [the deceased] themselves cannot tell because people leave digital footprints in ways unfathomable to the laypersons every single time they use technology to communicate or use for any other purpose.
I agree that NY Post is inconsistent, but keep in mind: journalism in the US is profit-driven. Headlines are chosen primarily to sell newspapers, much secondarily to educate or inform. This is what the people want to read. Islam is the popular enemy. 9/11, ISIS, Al Queda, etc., feeds this popularity. That's just how it is.
They used to have some semblance of balanced reporting some time in history, but then, that was just after they'd finished supporting khattab in his efforts against the soviets, they even had obituaries for mujahideen:
BBC NEWS
Friday, 26 April, 2002, 00:05 GMT 01:05 UK
Obituary:
Chechen rebel Khattab
Khattab's vow has been to drive Russia out of Chechnya
The death of the Chechen rebel commander known as Khattab may be the rebel side's heaviest loss since their leader Dzhokhar Dudayev died in a missile attack in 1996.
Chechen rebel sources have confirmed his death, saying he was killed by a poisoned letter slipped him by Russia's Federal Security Service (FSB).
The FSB has displayed pictures of his body, which they say were intercepted in Chechnya after the warlord's funeral.
His large frame and shaggy mane of beard and hair had become a familiar sight on both rebel websites and in the Russian media, where he was viewed as a symbol of Islamic extremism on a par with Osama Bin Laden.
For the FSB, he was an "international terrorist... an ideologist and organiser of terrorist activity".
For the Chechen rebels, this fighter from the Middle East may in time be remembered mainly for his skill in leading the guerrilla war against Moscow.
But for Khattab himself, the fight in Chechnya was always a struggle against enemies of his vision of Islam - a vision which took him around Afghanistan and the former Soviet Union in pursuit of battle.
Afghanistan to Chechnya
Khattab, whose real name is said to be Omar Ibn al Khattab, is believed to have been born in Jordan to a tribe living near the border with Saudi Arabia.
He spoke of fighting the Soviet army in Afghanistan and is believed to have gone on to take part in wars fought in mainly Muslim parts of the former Soviet Union such as Tajikistan and Azerbaijan.
Moscow says Khattab played a key role in leading an Islamic rebellion in Dagestan
But it was in Chechnya that he made his name to the wider world, moving there in 1995 to fight Moscow's attempts to reclaim the separatist region, first in the 1994-1996 war and then after Russian troops returned in force in 1999.
Moscow says Khattab played a key role that summer in leading a rebellion by Islamic militants in Chechnya's neighbouring region of Dagestan.
He was also said to have founded a training camp for Islamic fighters along the lines of camps in Afghanistan.
"Tens of thousands of Muslims perish daily worldwide - not thousands, but millions of Muslims are killed," Khattab said in a recent website interview.
The Russian Government has accused Khattab of links with Osama Bin Laden's group but the commander said he had not seen him since his years in Afghanistan.
Asked about 11 September, he said the principal reason for it appeared to be US foreign policy.
"In the eyes of the entire world, Israelis are killing Muslims, occupying their lands, don't act even upon resolutions of United Nations, and America helps Israel in it," he said.
reminds me of this Friedrich Nietzche quote: “Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.”
Well, from what I understand, there was a shoot-out with the police, which is why they are dead.
Also, as to him, for example, "laughing" and acting like an everyday normal person even three hours before the actual tragic event, with any "grooming" (even for example, predators' grooming of little girls) the first order of business is always secrecy, and in fact that secrecy is the currency by which these people are able to perpetrate the heinous actions in the first place.
And as to why he was acting "normal" (if that's your question if I'm not mistaken), during the phase of their grooming/brainwashing whatever, I'm sure their conscience is dulled or deadened to at least the degree that they have at least a bit of the sociopath emerge in them so that any common empathy they had/have for people is almost nonexistent (especially for peoples they now see as "enemies" and complicit in the actions of their government). That is why, I think, they are able to act "normal" even with nefarious intentions in their heart much as the infamous Ted Bundy was able to go through the workday being his "normal" self even when he had a part-time sadistic hobby of raping and murdering women as a serial-killer.
As to the exact why and wherefores, we'll only know what is uncovered through digital footprints or whatever other evidence we are able to amass on them.
So, unfortunately, unlike you, I don't see a disconnect, just this troubling phenomena which makes radicalization harder to spot in an individual (because of how well they are able to act out "normal" actions before the event that are not congruent with their ill intentions).
Anyway, I don't know.
This story makes me upset because even the U.S. government says that we're to expect such incidences to happen more, not less; and I can't accept that, because that is not a solution, more like resigned forbearance towards what is seen as inevitable.
Just my thoughts.
format_quote Originally Posted by syed_z
Thank you my sister for your thoughts. Always good to read your shares, MashA'Allah.
I definitely agree with you that this phase does begin in the lives of those who are radicalized, atleast in the early stages I assume like you explained. But the question still remains, as to when did this sort of grooming took place in the lives of those 2 individuals?
There is no evidence for that, subhan'Allah. Rather the evidence we're getting is on the contrary.....
Then there is the disconnect between Wednesday’s murderous rampage and the visible behavior that preceded it. Less than three hours before he would open fire on his co-workers, Farook sat at a conference room table with six colleagues from the San Bernardino County health department where he had worked for the past five years, laughing with them as they heard the good news that their workloads would be lighter next year. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/2015/12/03/a0c7861e-99ef-11e5-b499-76cbec161973_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_shooter1010p%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
...their neighbors, friends, relatives, all had said it was unthinkable why he did this? ..again the problem is, they didn't remain alive to tell the world why!
Yeah, apologies in advance, as I'm quoting myself here because I wanted to clarify something:
format_quote Originally Posted by Search
This story makes me upset because even the U.S. government says that we're to expect such incidences to happen more, not less; and I can't accept that, because that is not a solution, more like resigned forbearance towards what is seen as inevitable.
When I say the U.S. government says we're to expect such incidences more, they do talk in the context of gun control; and for those who are not Americans here on IB, in the U.S. gun control is a highly politicized issue. That said, the idea of expecting attacks like Black Church shooting, Virginia Tech Shooting, or San Bernardino is a crazy, crazy thing for us Americans to accept. President Obama once said some time ago that such incidences in our time have come to be the "new normal," which is again just unacceptable, as he himself said.
So, anywhoo, I don't know if we're any closer to solutions, but surely, there is one? I don't know if it is gun control, but I do know that I want the issue to not exist because we deserve better than to live in a world where this is the "new normal."
Again, I want to spare some thoughts for the people who are suffering here because of things like this, as the victim's families that have lost their loved ones and their lives will never be the same without the light and smile of their loved ones: In-sha-Allah (God-willing), they find healing and peace and are able to come out braver and stronger from this tragedy. They didn't deserve this heartache (especially from someone whom they trusted as their fellow man and American).
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