Though I consider the Prophet s.a.a.w. marriage to Aisha r.a. an exception due to him being who he is, I also don't want the kuffar dictating what they feel is the right age for girls to marry. And in Islam, the age that separates adolescence from maturity is puberty. Because this is the time when the angels start recording deeds and when that person is held accountable for their actions REGARDLESS what the kuffar think. And Allah Knows Best
Though I consider the Prophet s.a.a.w. marriage to Aisha r.a. an exception due to him being who he is, I also don't want the kuffar dictating what they feel is the right age for girls to marry. And in Islam, the age that separates adolescence from maturity is puberty. Because this is the time when the angels start recording deeds and when that person is held accountable for their actions REGARDLESS what the kuffar think. And Allah Knows Best
I too had similar thoughts and agree with what u said. As for what the cleric said, i personally do not think he is right at all. I think islam does have an age limit and that is puberty as you said. Some people may argue about mental maturity not being the same as physical maturity, but since there is no legitimate way of measuring the mental maturity of an individual thus far (at least not that i know of) the age limit that should dictate whether one is eligible for marriage should be puberty.
I too had similar thoughts and agree with what u said. As for what the cleric said, i personally do not think he is right at all. I think islam does have an age limit and that is puberty as you said. Some people may argue about mental maturity not being the same as physical maturity, but since there is no legitimate way of measuring the mental maturity of an individual thus far (at least not that i know of) the age limit that should dictate whether one is eligible for marriage should be puberty.
And this is where the responsible wali or father should be able to distinguish if their daughter is ready or not. But we know that wali abuse has been going on unfortunately.
Genesis 20:12
And moreover she is indeed my sister, the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and so she became my wife.
And the bible permits child marriages as well as incest, and if you study the history of Europe you will find that incest and child marriages were not only common but encouraged, and for the descendants of such people to come along and cast judgement over affairs they know nothing of, while calling our pure Islamic faith "inferior" and "barbaric" is hypocritical and pathetic.
يا قافلة الخير "The Persian aggression against Iraq was a result of the arrogant, racialist and evil attitudes of the ruling clique in Iran."
-Saddam Hussein Abd al-Majid at-Tikriti - العراق جمجمة العرب ورمح الله في الأرض
If that saudi cleric is suggesting child marriage in a similar fashion then obviously it's not acceptable. If he is suggesting in the Islamic context way then it is allowed.
The Saudi cleric speaks the truth and truth cannot be denied. By the way there is no marriage age in Christianity, Judaism, Hindoo and other pagan religions. Marriage age laws are a relatively modern feminist socialist concept. Only liberal lefties would have a problem with no age restrictions on marriages. Marriage is a domestic private matter not a matter of state but commies can't keep their noses out of other peoples business and there lies the problem.
I too had similar thoughts and agree with what u said. As for what the cleric said, i personally do not think he is right at all. I think islam does have an age limit and that is puberty as you said. Some people may argue about mental maturity not being the same as physical maturity, but since there is no legitimate way of measuring the mental maturity of an individual thus far (at least not that i know of) the age limit that should dictate whether one is eligible for marriage should be puberty.
Its up to the people to dictate when people are allowed to marry as it has always been. In the UK the ages to have sex (not marry) start at 16. The cleric is giving his opinion in his own country - it has nothing to do with anyone else. People in poor countries have child workers because of economic issues, they marry young and are generally illiterate. How can one use the laws of Canada and UK to govern Mauritania, Pakistan or Yemen?
The same applies in Human history including Islamic and non Islamic cultures.
Its just left wing Outrage with zero solutions, as always.
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format_quote Originally Posted by Karl
The Saudi cleric speaks the truth and truth cannot be denied. By the way there is no marriage age in Christianity, Judaism, Hindoo and other pagan religions. Marriage age laws are a relatively modern feminist socialist concept. Only liberal lefties would have a problem with no age restrictions on marriages. Marriage is a domestic private matter not a matter of state but commies can't keep their noses out of other peoples business and there lies the problem.
Its virtue signalling and nothing more from the left wingers.
Last edited by Zafran; 04-08-2018 at 02:33 AM.
Do you think the pious don't sin?
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
Bible: Child Marriage in Ancient Israelite times – Paedophilia? – Discover The Truth
In Biblical times people were married at a very young age. Girls were usually betrothed before they reached puberty – majority of the time the marriage would have consummated when the girl reached puberty, and that was usually between the ages of 8, 9 or older,(Note: when a girl reached puberty prior to the 20th…...
I too had similar thoughts and agree with what u said. As for what the cleric said, i personally do not think he is right at all. I think islam does have an age limit and that is puberty as you said. Some people may argue about mental maturity not being the same as physical maturity, but since there is no legitimate way of measuring the mental maturity of an individual thus far (at least not that i know of) the age limit that should dictate whether one is eligible for marriage should be puberty.
You have got it wrong there, it is womanhood (after first menses) that must be attained to fully consummate the marriage by coitus. So a child can be married at any age if approved by the father. Erotic non coital love making can be performed after marriage regardless whether she is prepubescent or not. Islam is not a hysterical prudish religion, it's tenets are to protect the health of the wife. The reason Islam proscribes against coitus before puberty is because it can be seriously physically damaging to the girl.
First off, non of us should be using other scriptures or religions to justify rulings in islam. I mean some of these scriptures have child rape and incest in them, so how can we bring islam to that level and justify its rulings through them?
Secondly, though the cleric didnt specifically mention whether there is a specific age limit or not, the question was specifically about the sharia and what it says about this matter. Best answer that he could have delivered (in my humble opinion) is to state that "the sharia is silent upon this matter and doesnt give a specific age limit to marriage"
Finally, with regards to whether or not it should be ok for a father to marry off his daughter without her consent, even though it may have benefit to her in the future is still unacceptable. There must be consent from the daughter herself for the father to marry her off to her spouse to be. And this consent is best given after puberty as it would be more reliable than if the girl was to give it before she becomes a teen. Similarly for a boy as well, though the boy has more freedom in this after marriage than girls.]
@Karl Its true that a girl should only consummate her marriage by coitus after her first menses, but what guarantee does she have when nikkah is already done between her and her husband? I mean we all know how much islam emphasizes on how separate men and women should be from one another from fear of temptation, yet here we are saying that its ok for a guy and girl to be together in full temptation of marriage yet not allowed to have coital love making. This is very contradicting to what islam teaches.
The age for marriage is puberty. Islamically all other marriages are void. To use the prophet saw's marriage to aisha as a method of justifying it is weird, as aisha ra had already reached puberty then
The age for marriage is puberty. Islamically all other marriages are void. To use the prophet saw's marriage to aisha as a method of justifying it is weird, as aisha ra had already reached puberty then
You know, I was beginning to worry about you not seeing you on here. I was hoping those waswas were not getting to you too much. Happy to see you back on.
You know, I was beginning to worry about you not seeing you on here. I was hoping those waswas were not getting to you too much. Happy to see you back on.
Aww, thank you! Alhamdulilah the waswas has gone down a lot, its still there mind you, but im not repeating my salah anymore alhamdoulilah. I was away on holiday and was with family etc. Hope all is well inshallah
First off, non of us should be using other scriptures or religions to justify rulings in islam. I mean some of these scriptures have child rape and incest in them, so how can we bring islam to that level and justify its rulings through them?
Secondly, though the cleric didnt specifically mention whether there is a specific age limit or not, the question was specifically about the sharia and what it says about this matter. Best answer that he could have delivered (in my humble opinion) is to state that "the sharia is silent upon this matter and doesnt give a specific age limit to marriage"
Finally, with regards to whether or not it should be ok for a father to marry off his daughter without her consent, even though it may have benefit to her in the future is still unacceptable. There must be consent from the daughter herself for the father to marry her off to her spouse to be. And this consent is best given after puberty as it would be more reliable than if the girl was to give it before she becomes a teen. Similarly for a boy as well, though the boy has more freedom in this after marriage than girls.]
@Karl Its true that a girl should only consummate her marriage by coitus after her first menses, but what guarantee does she have when nikkah is already done between her and her husband? I mean we all know how much islam emphasizes on how separate men and women should be from one another from fear of temptation, yet here we are saying that its ok for a guy and girl to be together in full temptation of marriage yet not allowed to have coital love making. This is very contradicting to what islam teaches.
You are over thinking this, just follow the Quran. You don't need scholars it is very simple, just read the Quran all the guidance is there. Gods law no marriage age, father decides if marriage is appropriate, if daughter is silent she consents. People that have converted to Islam but they don't really know what it is really about and have hang ups about the age of marriage in Islam should join the lefty liberal feminists and leave Islam. It is pointless to try and change the religion as that shows you can't submit to Allah and make a fool of yourself.
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format_quote Originally Posted by ChosenTCO
First off, non of us should be using other scriptures or religions to justify rulings in islam. I mean some of these scriptures have child rape and incest in them, so how can we bring islam to that level and justify its rulings through them?
Secondly, though the cleric didnt specifically mention whether there is a specific age limit or not, the question was specifically about the sharia and what it says about this matter. Best answer that he could have delivered (in my humble opinion) is to state that "the sharia is silent upon this matter and doesnt give a specific age limit to marriage"
Finally, with regards to whether or not it should be ok for a father to marry off his daughter without her consent, even though it may have benefit to her in the future is still unacceptable. There must be consent from the daughter herself for the father to marry her off to her spouse to be. And this consent is best given after puberty as it would be more reliable than if the girl was to give it before she becomes a teen. Similarly for a boy as well, though the boy has more freedom in this after marriage than girls.]
@Karl Its true that a girl should only consummate her marriage by coitus after her first menses, but what guarantee does she have when nikkah is already done between her and her husband? I mean we all know how much islam emphasizes on how separate men and women should be from one another from fear of temptation, yet here we are saying that its ok for a guy and girl to be together in full temptation of marriage yet not allowed to have coital love making. This is very contradicting to what islam teaches.
Another reason why age laws are meaningless. My race is adult by the age of twelve. Females enter puberty at around eight years old and are full grown adults by twelve years old. So using "teens" as a benchmark for everyone is ridiculous and that is why it is not in the Quran. As a father I cannot tolerate any commie busy bodies that get into my domestic affairs, if they trespass they will be shot.
"the sharia is silent upon this matter and doesnt give a specific age limit to marriage"
This is true - other then that the cleric is basically just rehashing his own view by his own country/cultures standards. There are plenty of Muslims countries on the planet that don't have any Ijma on the marriage age - Just google marriage ages by country.
They merely:
Veiled themselves and didn't flaunt it
Sought forgiveness and didn't persist
Took ownership of it and don't justify it
And acted with excellence after they had erred - Ibn al-Qayyim
Some of the Muslim shaikhs have actually left the Holy Quraan and Hadeeth at their backs therefore our Ummah and our religion both are suffering. The Holy Quraan and Hadeeth both have given the age limit for marriage of both girls and boys. This limit is not 18 years of the un-Islamic rule. In Hadeeth only the saying: " Take his consent and her consent" is enough to give an understanding of the age of marriage in both sexes.
Someone may think that a small girl can give her consent. For this I am writing a true story that happened in my relatives.
My cousin, when she was very small (may be 7 years old, I am not sure about her age at that time) got engaged to her cousin (the son of her father's brother). It was only her engagement, she was married in her twenties. When she got engaged, her aunt (father's sister) said: "I wish that she was engaged to my son". My cousin who was standing there and listening to her aunt said abruptly: " Aunt, don't worry, I will also marry your son".
This is the consent of a small girl. Islam doesn't want this type of consent. So the age of a girl and boy for giving their consent must be such that they understand the meaning of marriage and consent for marriage. That will be the age of maturity.
Again see the following verse, here is its translation:
Surah Al-Nisaa verse 6 (translation):
(4:6) Test the orphans until they reach the age of marriage,9 and then if you find them mature of mind hand over to them their property,10 and do not eat it up by either spending extravagantly or in haste, fearing that they would grow up (and claim it). If the guardian of the orphan is rich let him abstain entirely (from his ward's property); and if he is poor, let him partake of it in a fair measure.11 When you hand over their property to them let there be witnesses on their behalf. Allah is sufficient to take account (of your deeds).
************************************************** **********************************************
Here in this verse you can see that Allah ordered to watch and test orphans until they become
mentally
so much mature that they can handle their affairs, that is given the name of the age of marriage. It is then that their wealth and property is to be handed over to them in the presence of witnesses.
As I am emphasizing again and again that the verses of the Holy Quran are vast in meanings. Here in this verse a direct command comes about the inheritance of orphans but the verse also has pointed out the age of marriage.
If a shaikh or scholar keeps this verse and hadeeth in mind and also fears Allah believing that he is going to stand in front of Allah for his accounting when the Hell-Fire will be raging shouting, "hal mim-mazeed (are there some more)?" then he will be very careful about his words. May Allah guide us and them all.
Last edited by OmAbdullah; 04-09-2018 at 06:03 AM.
For the translation and short explanation of the surahs / verses of the Holy Quraan go to
You are over thinking this, just follow the Quran. You don't need scholars it is very simple, just read the Quran all the guidance is there. Gods law no marriage age, father decides if marriage is appropriate, if daughter is silent she consents. People that have converted to Islam but they don't really know what it is really about and have hang ups about the age of marriage in Islam should join the lefty liberal feminists and leave Islam. It is pointless to try and change the religion as that shows you can't submit to Allah and make a fool of yourself.
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Another reason why age laws are meaningless. My race is adult by the age of twelve. Females enter puberty at around eight years old and are full grown adults by twelve years old. So using "teens" as a benchmark for everyone is ridiculous and that is why it is not in the Quran. As a father I cannot tolerate any commie busy bodies that get into my domestic affairs, if they trespass they will be shot.
"My race is adult by the age of 12" im assuming your white from your previous posts right?
Puberty isnt a thing which is the same for all folk though. Environment, nutrition and genetics play a part too, so we cant really say the age is 12( looking at girls)
"My race is adult by the age of 12" im assuming your white from your previous posts right?
Puberty isnt a thing which is the same for all folk though. Environment, nutrition and genetics play a part too, so we cant really say the age is 12( looking at girls)
Yes, I belong to a North European race. I agree with you that nutrition and environment also play a part, although they are nonetheless secondary to race itself. What I meant is that the vast majority of those of my race (both male and female alike) are fully grown adults by age 12, and we attain puberty a few years before that age.
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