Immigrants may have to sign new EU contract
By David Rennie in Brussels
(Filed: 24/03/2006)
New migrants to Europe could be forced to sign "integration contracts", pledging to learn the languages of their host countries and respect Western freedoms, under plans announced yesterday.
Interior ministers from the six largest EU states agreed that: "The values of our societies - democracy, respect for other faiths, free speech, the rule of law, free media and so on - are values we would expect everybody wanting to settle in these countries to respect."
The meeting, in Germany, brought together ministers from Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Poland.
The host, Wolfgang Schaeuble, said the idea was to make clear that immigation was a "reciprocal" process, and that "successful integration is always something that presupposes mutual rights and obligations".
Asked if immigrants who broke the proposed contracts could be deported, Charles Clarke, the Home Secretary, said: "That would be an issue that could arise."
The proposal was put by the French interior minister, Nicholas Sarkozy, seen as a hardliner on immigration.
A senior French official told reporters that the key points were that prospective immigrants should learn the local language, be familiar with their new host country's institutions and have the financial means to support themselves.
A Home Office spokesman said Britain was "interested in learning about the French approach, though we have just set up our own system, with the citizenship test and language requirements".
The French proposal appeared to apply to all migrants at the point of arrival, whereas Britain's tests apply only when a migrant seeks to obtain citizenship, at least four years after arriving.
English language tests may soon be extended to cover those applying for permanent residence in Britain, under a "five-year strategy for asylum and immigration" published late last year, said Home Office officials.
But Britain would take part in European working groups on studying integration contracts, as part of Mr Clarke's desire to "pool knowledge".
There was agreement in Europe about the need for migrants to sign up to the values of their new home nations. "It's about respect for Western values, especially democracy, the rule of law and human rights," said the Home Office spokesman.
Ministers at the meeting in Heiligendamm also agreed to pool intelligence and information on suspects expelled from G6 countries for preaching racial or religious hatred.
They called for increased "inter-faith dialogue" with Muslim communities. There have been protests that Muslims are singled out by cultural tests imposed on migrants in Holland and Germany.
Holland this month began testing new migrants on their knowledge of Dutch and basic Dutch values.
New arrivals will also have to watch a government video presenting the difficulties and challenges they may face in Holland. This includes scenes of topless women on a beach, and gay men kissing.
Immigrants from other EU countries, North America, Australasia and Japan are exempted from the exams.
Two German states sparked a controversy by proposing detailed questionnaires on culture and general knowledge for those seeking citizenship.
A senior French official told reporters that the key points were that prospective immigrants should learn the local language, be familiar with their new host country's institutions and have the financial means to support themselves.
Pretty damn sensible. I am surprised Europe is finally waking up to this challange. But you know they will never have the cajones to enforce such laws ie deportation.
I am surprised Europe is finally waking up to this challange. But you know they will never have the cajones to enforce such laws ie deportation.
It is only the British that have that problem. The French have actually stripped people of their citizenship and deported them. Imagine turning up in Algeria with a cancelled French passport stamped "Unwanted Islamist Extremist"?
The rest of mainland Europe is talking of following suit. The Netherlands is about to deport someone who used to have Dutch citizenship I believe.
Le coeur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connait pas. - Blaise Pascal
Imagine turning up in Algeria with a cancelled French passport stamped "Unwanted Islamist Extremist"?
That is the biggest problem. With most ME regimes very *cough* unimpressed with violence/terrorism which can threaten their power, booting some troublemakers obligates europeans to think of the deportee's punishment upon arrival in said "homeland". So, to some, export of terror agitator to assad jr.= bloody european hands . That is kind of what I was getting at with the "no cajones" banter.
I think this is a very bad way trying to integrate people in the "new country" – by force.
From what I learned is it really not many people not wanting to be a part of the society they coming to in some degree anyway. But the welcome is not very "integrate able".
I take a local example: In my city people coming from other parts of the world get their own satellite TV with news from the "home-countries" IF they are settling down in the segregated parts of the city. Then they live in a part of the city not likely to meet any Swedish people accept from teachers, and people having their work in that area and who will disappear every afternoon. They do not have many and in some cases any Swedish neighbours. 99,9 % of all people living in that area is not Swedish as their origin. Then they are not likely getting any jobs since they are not Swedish.
How will the adult learn Swedish under those circumstances? They are already today very dependent of their children since they are the ones knowing the language.
Demanding people to learn Swedish ex. is putting the integration problem on the people arriving in this country. It had been better if the community planned the integration first of all by not "deport" people coming here to segregated parts of the city and to give them jobs. I can guarantee that Sweden has one of the most well educated bus drivers in the world. Why not let people get into the community in their homes and by the work they educated in?
It is really bad when you can read ads in the paper were they searching Swedish people get paid to get to these areas to "speak to people in Swedish".
I think the countries ought to take responsibility in the integration question, not letting all the responsibility be on the ones coming here.
Government can't do EVERYTHING! Why can't individual applicants be held RESPONSIBLE for their choice to live where they seek?
No they can not do everything but they can do a lot more then today They do not really have much of a choice when they come here as it is today. Even if people are willing to learn and live else were there are not many other apartments available since they have planned this kind of “integration” from the beginning.
And to demand from people to live in places they do not have access to and work with jobs they do not have access to and at the same time acquire a language when there are no way of doing this – is not really fair – I think.
Maybe - but now they have and the question is how to do it in the best way for everyone?
I do not believe in forcing people to integrate and showing chocking videos about some part of the society that not even all of their own members approve with.
The point of the pre-entrance education and 'potential immigrant' screening is to weed out people that will have problems with the society in question and cause trouble. It is a rational thing to do. All countries should do this. Saudi for example could show the weekly public punishment of offenders of islam in a video. That way even visitors would have no excuse if they were flogged for offending. Same goes foe Sweden, etc.
I do not believe in forcing people to integrate and showing shocking videos about some part of the society that not even all of their own members approve with.
Maybe their own members do not approve, but how many attack the people for the things they do not approve of.
I think it is clear that the screening does not screen out people that don't approve, only shows them what they might encounter and says,"this is what you might see, can you handle it? Will you cause trouble over this? You must be tolerant if you want to come to our country."
[QUOTE I do not believe in forcing people to integrate and showing chocking videos about some part of the society that not even all of their own members approve with.[/QUOTE]
I don't like to think of others getting offended. However, this is a stark reality of the society they are wishing to become a member of. Perhaps it would give those wishing to immigrate "food for thought", or bring them to the realization that relocation isn't in their best interest.
I think that learning new languages is good but to accept the western standard of morality is out of the question.
Accepting gays and lesbian's as acceptable is terrible
To say that you will accept immodesty and other aspects of western life that is contradictory to Islamic teaching is not acceptable.
this all falls on the individual,how much is Islam for them,how much will they sacrifice to be accepted as a European.
How much of Islam and its teaching do a person have to sacrifice to be accepted as an European or as a westernet?
Do we have to parade our daughter aand son in skimpy clothing?
Do we have to force them to ahve sex before marriage?
Do we allow them to take drugs and alchohol?
Man may Plan but Allah is teh best of Planners.
inshallah as more and more westerner accept Islam so will that coutnry become an Islamic state.Inshallah.
I think that learning new languages is good but to accept the western standard of morality is out of the question.
Then why relocate to the West? Why not stay in an Islamic state?
Accepting gays and lesbian's as acceptable is terrible
To say that you will accept immodesty and other aspects of western life that is contradictory to Islamic teaching is not acceptable.
I don't believe they are asking anyone to become homosexual, or even agree with homosexuality. The immigrants are just being asked to tolerate it as a lifestyle for others.
this all falls on the individual,how much is Islam for them,how much will they sacrifice to be accepted as a European.
How much of Islam and its teaching do a person have to sacrifice to be accepted as an European or as a westernet?
Do we have to parade our daughter aand son in skimpy clothing?
Do we have to force them to ahve sex before marriage?
Do we allow them to take drugs and alchohol?
Again, I believe the immigrants are only being asked to respect the lifestyle of other people. No one is asking the immigrants to change their personal conduct, as long as it does not break laws.
Man may Plan but Allah is teh best of Planners.
inshallah as more and more westerner accept Islam so will that coutnry become an Islamic state.Inshallah.
Well, to be quite honest, the majority of Westerners do not want an Islamic state, and will fight until death to prevent one from forming. People wishing to create Islamic states in the West will not be welcome, and should not expect to be treated with much respect.
Muslim move around and even when there are no muslim some of them will convrt to Islam and from there Islam grows and expands life a seed that has flown far aways from the tree.
Like i say,accepting such will not be acceptable,we will not tolerate it,nor will we allow our children to fall prey to such.If they ar that way,we cant do anything about it.
And the Immigrant are not asked to accept other lifestyle they are slowly to be Europianised.Muslim must respect the laws of the land but we wont assimilite to follow the errors in society.
Finally you will be an Islamic state will ye nil ye.If you die then so be it for your death is but a stepping stone.
We do not seek to convert the west but the west will come on its own.
Muslim move around and even when there are no muslim some of them will convrt to Islam and from there Islam grows and expands life a seed that has flown far aways from the tree.
Even a convert/revert needs to consider the implications of conversion if they wish to remain in a Western country.
Like i say,accepting such will not be acceptable,we will not tolerate it,nor will we allow our children to fall prey to such.If they ar that way,we cant do anything about it.
Therefore, people of such thought such not relocate to a Western country.
And the Immigrant are not asked to accept other lifestyle they are slowly to be Europianised.Muslim must respect the laws of the land but we wont assimilite to follow the errors in society.
Therefore, people of such thought such not relocate to a Western country.
Finally you will be an Islamic state will ye nil ye.If you die then so be it for your death is but a stepping stone.
We do not seek to convert the west but the west will come on its own.
This is doubtful.
I think immigration boils down to having respect for the country in which one wishes to immigrate. Would it be fair for me to move to an Islamic country and expect Muslims to accept my sexy attire, liberal views, and lustful actions? I don't think so. Therefore, out of respect, and intelligence I would never relocate to an Islamic country.
Muslim move around and even when there are no muslim some of them will convrt to Islam and from there Islam grows and expands life a seed that has flown far aways from the tree.
Like i say,accepting such will not be acceptable,we will not tolerate it,nor will we allow our children to fall prey to such.If they ar that way,we cant do anything about it.
And the Immigrant are not asked to accept other lifestyle they are slowly to be Europianised.Muslim must respect the laws of the land but we wont assimilite to follow the errors in society.
Finally you will be an Islamic state will ye nil ye.If you die then so be it for your death is but a stepping stone.
We do not seek to convert the west but the west will come on its own.
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They do not really have much of a choice when they come here as it is today. Even if people are willing to learn and live else were there are not many other apartments available since they have planned this kind of “integration” from the beginning.
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