Jilbab

[raniya]

Asalaamu alykum, it clearly states in the Qur'an and Hadith that women have to wear the jilbab, it is fard. When you live in a western society and living in a area where you are unlikey to find muslim brothers or sisters and u wear the full hijab isnt it more likey that u are looked at and spoken of and are a target rather than when u are decently covered, with ur hijab and body fully covered?

The in the Qur'an, verse 33:59 (sura Al-Ahzab)

O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their [jalabib] over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

The word jilbab is also found in some hadith (oral traditions later recorded). One such hadith follows:

Narrated Umm Atiyya: We were ordered to bring out our menstruating women and screened women to the religious gatherings and invocation of the Muslims on the two Eid festivals. These menstruating women were to keep away from the musalla. A woman asked, "O Messenger of Allah! What about one who does not have a jilbab?". He said, "Let her borrow the jilbab of her companion". (Sahih Bukhari, Book 8, #347)

[Protected_Diamond]

Alhamdulilah! Jazahka Allah kahir for sharing!

[NahidSarvy]

Was that ayâ intended for the situation of the early Believers, when they were being harassed and appearing as a respectable woman might save a woman grief or rape or death? That is how I understood that verse.

[Maimunah]

salaam
jazakaallah khayr
alhamdulilaah am wearin it
wasalaam

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Was that ayâ intended for the situation of the early Believers, when they were being harassed and appearing as a respectable woman might save a woman grief or rape or death? That is how I understood that verse.

no answer to this in 17 minutes? :eek:


anyway the pertaining hijaab was made for all women and for all times. Men dont change wiv time, trust me! The prophet (saws) made it clear that all women must wear it.

Volume 7, Book 65, Number 375:
Narrated Anas:

I know (about) the Hijab (the order of veiling of women) more than anybody else. Ubai bin Ka'b used to ask me about it. Allah's Apostle became the bridegroom of Zainab bint Jahsh whom he married at Medina. After the sun had risen high in the sky, the Prophet invited the people to a meal. Allah's Apostle remained sitting and some people remained sitting with him after the other guests had left. Then Allah's Apostle got up and went away, and I too, followed him till he reached the door of 'Aisha's room. Then he thought that the people must have left the place by then, so he returned and I also returned with him. Behold, the people were still sitting at their places. So he went back again for the second time, and I went along with him too. When we reached the door of 'Aisha's room, he returned and I also returned with him to see that the people had left. Thereupon the Prophet hung a curtain between me and him and the Verse regarding the order for (veiling of women) Hijab was revealed.


sahih bukhari!


this clearly shows women must veil themselves properly in front of non-mahrams

[NahidSarvy]

this clearly shows women must veil themselves properly in front of non-mahrams

Peace, Abd Majid.

No, it doesn't. It says that the Prophet's wives are to be left alone. Sûra 33: 53:

O Believers, enter not the dwellings of the Prophet, unless invited... And when you ask of his wives anything, ask from behind a hijab. That is purer for your hearts and their hearts.

At the time, Muhammad's wives lived in the masjid around the main courtyard.

Fadwa el Guindi writes in Veil (p. 154),

The Sura (33:53) is ultimately about privacy of the Prophet's home and family and the special status of his wives in two ways - as Prophet's wives and as leaders with access to Islamic information and wisdom who are increasingly sought by community members. There was need to protect women's right to privacy by regulating the flow of visitors and the comportment of the men who entered upon the women's quarters. It is not about women's clothing. Men entering the wives' quarters are required to ask permission or only enter when invited and, even then, to talk to the Prophet's wives from behind a partition or curtain. The non-ordinary statys of the Prophet's wives is evident in the passage:
O wives of the Prophet, you are not like other women (Sura 33:31)

Therefore your conclusions are not correct about either the Verse of the Veil (33:53) or about what Anas was saying in that hadith - you are reading an interpretation that inserts conclusions about the meanings, skewing the reading. "I know more about the hijab" has the modern commentator's words "(the order of veiling of women)" added in, but they are a conclusion and not part of the hadith itself.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ are you denying jilbab is fard upon you?

[raniya]

When you live in a western society and living in a area where you are unlikey to find muslim brothers or sisters and u wear the full hijab and jilbab isnt it more likey that u are looked at and spoken of and are a target rather than when u are decently covered, with ur hijab and body fully covered??

[NahidSarvy]

^ are you denying jilbab is fard upon you?

Yes. I quote el Guindi again for her precise analysis of 33:59 (p.139), the verse about the jilbâb, the loose dress of Abyssinian origin:

O Prophet, tell your wives, daughters and believing women to put on their jilbabs so that they are recognised and thus not harmed.

Jilbab refers to a long loose shirtdress. (...) This passage refers to women directly connected to the Prophet (wives and daughters) in order to distinguish their status, and it extends the enjoinder of wearing al-jilbab to all believing Muslim women. (...) In the context of the early Islamic community I contend that the intent was to mark group identity (the community of believers), to achieve social distance for the Prophet's Wives and to project an image of respect to avert harassment.

(...)The two dress parts mentioned for women are khimar (the head veil) and jilbab (a long gown), which had not been newly introduced by Islam but were likely already to be part of the wardrobe of the time. Various forms of jilbab for men and women are items of Arab dress. Islam attached specific and characteristic meaning to their use, pertaining to privacy, respect and status.

The ayât about dress considers that which is the normal dress of the day and age of Muhammad and speaks to how the Believers wear those clothes. I don't think God wants me in a headcloth to protect me from the sun and a loose dress to keep me cool - I live in the semi-frozen wasteland of New England. I think rather that the verses are rather:

1. Specific to the clothing of one's climate and culture - I am not an Arab! It is not the 6th century of the Common Era! I do not live in the desert!
2. May regard specific persons (i.e. the Wives of the Prophet, who were a special class of person in history) or specific periods (when Believing women were being harassed and so were told to dress like powerful women, not slaves).
3. When applicable to all times and place, are intended to convey content and not specific sartorial rules.

So yes, I do not agree it is fard in the sense that I must wear a loose shirt-dress, plus this aya is about a specific situation, time and place.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^

The Qur'an - An-Nur 24:30

Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts (from illegal sexual acts, etc.). That is purer for them. Verily, Allâh is All-Aware of what they do.



"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what (must ordinarily) appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms..."

"And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests..."

"And say to the believing women that they cast down their looks and guard their private parts, and display not their ornaments, except those which are outside; and let them pull their kerchiefs over their bosoms..."

-[24:31]


what you make outta dat?

[NahidSarvy]

what you make outta dat?

I will quote from my post here:

The Holy Qur'an says: "Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and protect their private parts. That will make for greater purity for them. Verily, Allah is well acquainted with all that they do. And tell the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their private parts and not to display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof and to draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands..." (Holy Qur'an, 24:30-31)

1. A woman should not show her beauty or adornments except what appears by uncontrolled factors such as the wind blowing her clothes.
2. The head covers should be drawn so as to cover the hair, the neck and the bosom.

I disagree with your interpretation of the words. What is actually said? That translation - which is comparatively close to the Arabic - says the following:

• men and women should both cover their private parts
• women should cover their jayb (pl. juyûb), or cleavage, with their khimar.

Now, in these days and times, it is understood that this orders believing women to wear a head-veil, which is what a khimar was in ancient times. The khimar was worn by both women and by men; it was an outer garment worn to protect the head from the hot sun.

This verse does not order the Believers to wear khimar; it orders us to cover our jayb - with the commonly-worn piece of clothing of the day, a large piece of cloth to protect the head from the sun. If we are not wearing a khimar, we can cover the jayb with something else.

The issue here, for men and women alike, is modesty, and the words of the Qur'ân indicate that for women, the breasts are also to be covered in public, just like the genitals are.

Often forgotten is the fact that modern Western dress is a new invention. Looking at the clothing of women as recently as seventy years ago, we see clothing similar to hijab. These active and hard-working women of the West were not inhibited by their clothing which consisted of long, full dresses and various types of head covering.

I disagree again. Ask my grandmother about trying to work while dressed in those outfits - this is why working women adopted jeans and pants and the like, because traditional clothing was impractical, designed to highlight their sexual attractiveness rather than enabling work and very, very uncomfortable.

Muslim women who wear hijab do not find it impractical or interfering with their activities in all levels and walks of life. Hijab is not merely a covering dress but more importantly, it is behavior, manners, speech and appearance in public. Dress is only one facet of the total being.

I agree! Modesty (rather than the limiting term hijab, which is not a Qur'ânic term for modesty but for a sheet or curtain) is about dress and action - and is for both sexes. I choose not to cover my head, but I am a respectful person who dresses modestly. I wear jeans, because they are plain, loose, practical and not sexualised - they are plain clothing, tough, cheap and egalitarian. I speak with respect to others and I do not treat others as sexual objects, nor do I present myself as one. This is the heart of the commandment to modesty.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I will quote from my post here:I disagree with your interpretation of the words. What is actually said? That translation - which is comparatively close to the Arabic - says the following:

• men and women should both cover their private parts
• women should cover their jayb (pl. juyûb), or cleavage, with their khimar.

Now, in these days and times, it is understood that this orders believing women to wear a head-veil, which is what a khimar was in ancient times. The khimar was worn by both women and by men; it was an outer garment worn to protect the head from the hot sun.

This verse does not order the Believers to wear khimar; it orders us to cover our jayb - with the commonly-worn piece of clothing of the day, a large piece of cloth to protect the head from the sun. If we are not wearing a khimar, we can cover the jayb with something else.

The issue here, for men and women alike, is modesty, and the words of the Qur'ân indicate that for women, the breasts are also to be covered in public, just like the genitals are.I disagree again. Ask my grandmother about trying to work while dressed in those outfits - this is why working women adopted jeans and pants and the like, because traditional clothing was impractical, designed to highlight their sexual attractiveness rather than enabling work and very, very uncomfortable.I agree! Modesty (rather than the limiting term hijab, which is not a Qur'ânic term for modesty but for a sheet or curtain) is about dress and action - and is for both sexes. I choose not to cover my head, but I am a respectful person who dresses modestly. I wear jeans, because they are plain, loose, practical and not sexualised - they are plain clothing, tough, cheap and egalitarian. I speak with respect to others and I do not treat others as sexual objects, nor do I present myself as one. This is the heart of the commandment to modesty.

i lost you....

sis the hijaab is an essential part of faith. Covering up completes HALF YOUR IMAN!

[NahidSarvy]

i lost you.... sis the hijaab is an essential part of faith. Covering up completes HALF YOUR IMAN!

Wait, I wrote a whole discussion about the issue, and all you can respond with is that I am giving up half of my faith by disagreeing with you? That's not useful, that's just rhetoric.

You can't just argue, "BECAUSE I SAY SO!" when someone writes a thoughtful post and expect them to take you seriously! I raise serious issues here, and all you can say is that "wearing the hijaab (sic) (...) completes HALF [MY] IMAN!"

Nuh-uh.

[NahidSarvy]

i lost you....

sis the hijaab is an essential part of faith. Covering up completes HALF YOUR IMAN!

Also, if my faith is based upon wearing Magical Garments (tm) like the Mormon "magical underwear", there is a bigger issue at hand here. Faith is about belief and practice, not Special Magic Outfits (tm).

[- Qatada -]

Brother Abd'Majid, if they wanted to follow the sunnah - they could easily do it. For some reason, whenever the mentioning of the ayat:

Qur'an 4:59. O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is best, and most suitable for final determination.

80. He who obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah. But if any turn away, We have not sent thee to watch over their (evil deeds).



Most don't respond. And if you were to ask how people perform salaah without the sunnah, people won't respond either. So its upto them if they want to learn, or choose their desires.


Allaahu a'lam.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Also, if my faith is based upon wearing Magical Garments (tm) like the Mormon "magical underwear", there is a bigger issue at hand here. Faith is about belief and practice, not Special Magic Outfits (tm).

Astagfirullah ffended:

im sry. clearly i dont hav enough knowledge on this issue.

[NahidSarvy]

im sry. clearly i dont hav enough knowledge on this issue.

I'm not sure why you are offended, my point was that you offended me by not responding to anything I said except to repeat the opinion you believe - and now admit you don't have the tools to discuss.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but if you want to quote scripture at me and then I answer your concerns, you can't just ignore my response. I mean, you can, but it's obnoxious.

Whatever. If anyone wants to discuss this issue, I'm genuinely interested. After all, the subject is interesting and complex.

Maybe someone female who has dealt with these issues in her daily life might want to chime in. I reckon every single Muslima has an opinion on the subject, one way or another, and their own interpretation of what things mean.

[raniya]

no one has even answered my question or had any comment on it...i was asking....will u not be more of a target when u were the jilbab in an environment where there arent many muslims?? can u not cover urself but not wear the actual jailbab???

[IbnAbdulHakim]

does anyone kno where the hadith where it saws that rasullulah saws mentioned that:

any woman who doesnt cover up and shows off her body figure wont come within 500 years of the scent of jannah.

i will really appreciate it if someone can giv the source.

[Sunflower]

Thx for sharing that with us i will use it to the best of my knowledge!