Transition from atheist to theist

[glo]

This is really a thread for anybody who once called him/herself an atheist, and is now a theist (obviously, most of those will be Muslims, given the nature of this forum, but thoughts from all faiths are welcome!)

The step from not believing in the existance of God at all to being convinced that God is real (and, in the case of monotheists, also the all-powerful, all-knowing creator of the universe) seems enormous!

Without going into complete conversion accounts (I know there is already a thread for those!), can you tell me what in the end convinced you??
Was it a divine experience?
Was it rational reasoning?
Anything else?

Was it a sudden process?
Or a long one?

Oh, I do like to ask questions!!!

Thank you

[Abdul Fattah]

Oh Glo
Nice question, but what can I say in 5 lines? I'm writing a book to answer that question. I'm at 88 pages right now, and I feel that I still haven't been able to capture the essence of it on paper.
(First three chapters are on the link under my signature)

[glo]

Oh Glo
Nice question, but what can I say in 5 lines? I'm writing a book to answer that question. I'm at 88 pages right now, and I feel that I still haven't been able to capture the essence of it on paper.
(First three chapters are on the link under my signature)

LOL
I had a slightly more condensed reply in mind, Steve. ( I do allow 6 or 7 lines, if absolutely necessary!)
But thank you for the link. I will be very interested to read it.

Peace.

[Snowflake]

Good idea Glo! Can't wait to read people's experience of 'that moment'.

[syilla]

i don't think they want to share

[Abdul Fattah]

Ok I'll try to give you a short version. Once as an atheist, I made a prayer. I didn't direct it to any specific God. I just said something among the lines of "the one who is there". And at the time I realised how hypocrite it would be to pray at that moment of distress, and then continue to be an atheist afterwards. So I added to the prayer: "If you answer my prayer, I will be forever thankfull for it, and respectfull for it, but I still won't believe. Because there's some things in religion that don't seem to make sense. But If you can show me an answer to those questions. If you can show me how I'm wrong, then I wil believe." Then next day it turned out the prayer was miracoulously answered. I was thankfull, but as I said, there were still some questions that kept me from believing. Than some three years past by, and suddenly I got all the answers to my questions, which by itself was something of a miracolous thing, considering the method I got those answers in. It was not like a straight answer, but more like a whole series of events, independent of one another, quickly following each other, all in teh same theme all pointing to the same direction. So I honoured my agreement.

[glo]

Thank you, Steve.

Once as an atheist, I made a prayer. I didn't direct it to any specific God. I just said something among the lines of "the one who is there".

I've got to stop you right here.
I am puzzled as to why an atheist would pray to (any) god. Surely, if you were at a stage, where you even contemplated the idea of God's existance, you were not an atheist any more, but instead an agnostic, or perhaps better out a seeker. Do you agree with that statement?

Did you, at that point, have a deep inner yearning for God to be real, but not really wanting to go as far as believing in him? (A bit like children not really believing in Father Christmas, but still writing a wish list 'just in case he's real'?)
Or feeling embarrassed that you should wish for him to be real, and then find that he isn't and you had fallen for some fairy-tale story?

And at the time I realised how hypocrite it would be to pray at that moment of distress, and then continue to be an atheist afterwards. So I added to the prayer: "If you answer my prayer, I will be forever thankfull for it, and respectfull for it, but I still won't believe. Because there's some things in religion that don't seem to make sense. But If you can show me an answer to those questions. If you can show me how I'm wrong, then I wil believe." Then next day it turned out the prayer was miracoulously answered. I was thankfull, but as I said, there were still some questions that kept me from believing. Than some three years past by, and suddenly I got all the answers to my questions, which by itself was something of a miracolous thing, considering the method I got those answers in. It was not like a straight answer, but more like a whole series of events, independent of one another, quickly following each other, all in teh same theme all pointing to the same direction. So I honoured my agreement.

Thanks for sharing. Very interesting!

peace.

[Abdul Fattah]

Thank you, Steve.

I've got to stop you right here.
I am puzzled as to why an atheist would pray to (any) god. Surely, if you were at a stage, where you even contemplated the idea of God's existance, you were not an atheist any more, but instead an agnostic, or perhaps better out a seeker. Do you agree with that statement?

Well perhaps at that specific time I was more of an agnostic then an atheist. But I don't think it's that rare for an atheist to pray. Drastic times call for drastic measures. In times of desperation even the strongest disbeliever might give prayer a shot. Thinking: "you never know"....

Did you, at that point, have a deep inner yearning for God to be real, but not really wanting to go as far as believing in him? (A bit like children not really believing in Father Christmas, but still writing a wish list 'just in case he's real'?)
Or feeling embarrassed that you should wish for him to be real, and then find that he isn't and you had fallen for some fairy-tale story?

No, I don't think I yearned for God to be real. At that point religion didn't seem to make any sense to me, so it really didn't apeal to me. I looked towards believing people as ignorant fools who followed the manipulations of powerhungry institutions. I did have a strong desire however at that point. That which I asked for in my prayer. At that specific time, it felt so important, that I didn't mind trying to pray for it, even if I didn't believe anyone heared me. (So it's not like I had a yearning for Santa to be real, but I had a yearning for the presents to be real).

Thanks for sharing. Very interesting!

peace.

Welcome
Now if I understand corectly you haven't been a believer always either, so is there a lil story from your expieriance to?

[glo]

Now if I understand corectly you haven't been a believer always either, so is there a lil story from your expieriance to?

'Fraid not.
You see, I may not always followed a Christian path, but I have always believed that there is a deity.
I cannot begin to imagine life without God, and have no concept whatsoever what it would be like to live life without believing in God!

That's why I am so intrigued by what changes an atheist to a theist.

So are you saying that, if the need is great enough, even the most hardened atheist will utter a prayer .. just in case there is somebody out there who will hear it??

[duskiness]

can you tell me what in the end convinced you??

i really don't know how this happend . for sure it took some time...
My parents are atheists, but they baptised my when i was infant. To do this thay had to make oath that thay will bring me up as a christian. to fullfil it i had to attend a religion classes for 13 years (since 6 till 19).
thats enough to make atheist of anyone! (sample from one of my teachers: "John Lennon is a satanist because in "Imagine" he sings "Imagine there no heaven, no hell below us..")
To sum up when i came to an age i was able to think it was quite obvious for me that well-educated, reasonable, independent and strong people are atheist. Only people who couldn't face the world on their own believed in God.
The older i get the more radical i was (like all teenagers). Faith for me was a mental and psycholgical immaturity.
Around 18 i went hiking in italian alps. i stood on the top of the summit and there were all aroud me other mountains. i was so small there. those mountains were there long befor me and they will be there long after me. And i felt i was missing something.
In our group we had aslo a prist. He behaved in a very "un-pristly" manner, and even spoke once how it s possible from scientific pov that jews crossed red sea.
I came to conclusion that not all belivers are idiots.
At that time i was aslo reading some book about christianty (of course written by from antichristian point of view)
Few weeks after coming back from italy it came out i have a brain toumor.
evertime i went on some kind of medical examination i saw cars with bumper sticker "<><"( = fish sign, it's a christian symbol). I was going to have surgery in germany and on my way there i made a bet "if You exist i want to see car with fish befor borded".
I haven't seen any, so i went to sleep. i woke up few hours later on a german high way in a jam. the car befor us had a fish sign. It seemed to me like if He was saying "you are not the one to set condition when, or how, or whether I'm am to give a sign". I got really scared. I didn't pray, i thought it was too silly to be an atheist and turn to God when one was in trouble.
In hospital i had time to think. i was no longer strong, nor independent. My biggest ambition in that time was to be able to walk to toilet on my own. And i was so proud of my independence befor!
I the end i wasn't "better" than any believer. Mybe even worst because all people i knew that believe in God seem to cope we situation better than nonbelievers (me included).
I come back to health and i started to call myself "agnostic". I started reading not only antichristian books. i had a mess i my head. i told the story with the fish to my friend. I said that it seems a huge gullibility to believe in god because of one silly bumper sticker. She said it's not gullibility but hope.
Since then i started to believe more often than doubt. But it wasn't any firm believe and it was changing quite often. I needed about 2 more years to say francly "i believe in God"

oh....it's so long.. And in the end it seems i even can't answer you ...

[Abdul Fattah]

'Fraid not.
You see, I may not always followed a Christian path, but I have always believed that there is a deity.
I cannot begin to imagine life without God, and have no concept whatsoever what it would be like to live life without believing in God!

Oh ok

That's why I am so intrigued by what changes an atheist to a theist.

So are you saying that, if the need is great enough, even the most hardened atheist will utter a prayer .. just in case there is somebody out there who will hear it??

Yep that's exactly what I think.
In the qur'an an example is given.

017.066: Your Lord is He That maketh the Ship go smoothly for you through the sea, in order that ye may seek of his Bounty. For he is unto you most Merciful.
017.067I: When distress seizes you at sea, those that ye call upon - besides Himself - leave you in the lurch! but when He brings you back safe to land, ye turn away (from Him). Most ungrateful is man!
017.068: Do ye then feel secure that He will not cause you to be swallowed up beneath the earth when ye are on land, or that He will not send against you a violent tornado (with showers of stones) so that ye shall find no one to carry out your affairs for you?
017.069: Or do ye feel secure that He will not send you back a second time to sea and send against you a heavy gale to drown you because of your ingratitude, so that ye find no helper. Therein against Us?

[glo]

Thank you, Steve and Duskiness!

I realise that both of you had 'religious upbringings' in some way, shape or form.
That leaves me to wonder whether you were real atheists at any stage at all (by atheist I mean somebody who genuinely believes there is no god)?
Or whether you still thought that God was real, but you were rebelling against him?
Or rebelling against those authorities who seemed to represented him on earth?

Peace.

[snakelegs]

oh....it's so long.. And in the end it seems i even can't answer you ...

don't apologize for the length - i found your story interesting.
i have known several people who, through a near death experience or very major health issue, have come close to god for the first time in their lives.
sometimes it is easier to "see" god, when everything else is stripped away - as it is when you are facing death.

[glo]

Interesting thought, snakelegs.

I wonder how many conversions/ experiences of God's presence involve or coincide with times of pain, illness or other hardship?

[جوري]

don't apologize for the length - i found your story interesting.
i have known several people who, through a near death experience or very major health issue, have come close to god for the first time in their lives.
sometimes it is easier to "see" god, when everything else is stripped away - as it is when you are facing death.

That is very interesting you should mention and certainly very true... I have known in my life at least two people who have learned of God from a very trying situation they faced... and I believe this verse in particular applies to someone I know...
هُوَ الَّذِي يُسَيِّرُكُمْ فِي الْبَرِّ وَالْبَحْرِ حَتَّى إِذَا كُنتُمْ فِي الْفُلْكِ وَجَرَيْنَ بِهِم بِرِيحٍ طَيِّبَةٍ وَفَرِحُواْ بِهَا جَاءتْهَا رِيحٌ عَاصِفٌ وَجَاءهُمُ الْمَوْجُ مِن كُلِّ مَكَانٍ وَظَنُّواْ أَنَّهُمْ أُحِيطَ بِهِمْ دَعَوُاْ اللّهَ مُخْلِصِينَ لَهُ الدِّينَ لَئِنْ أَنجَيْتَنَا مِنْ هَـذِهِ لَنَكُونَنِّ مِنَ الشَّاكِرِينَ
[Pickthal 10:22] He it is Who maketh you to go on the land and the sea till, when ye are in the ships and they sail with them with a fair breeze and they are glad therein, a storm-wind reacheth them and the wave cometh unto them from every side and they deem that they are overwhelmed therein; (then) they cry unto Allah, making their faith pure for Him only: If Thou deliver us from this, we truly will be of the thankful.

[Woodrow]

Can't say about a transistion from atheist, I never could convince myself to be an atheist. Closest I could get was agnostic. Reading through these bring up an interesting point. I just recalled a thought.

"There are no atheists in fox holes"
Anybody who has ever been in combat can relate to that. People sure do learn how to pray fast when death looks imminent.

[Abdul Fattah]

Thank you, Steve and Duskiness!

I realise that both of you had 'religious upbringings' in some way, shape or form.
That leaves me to wonder whether you were real atheists at any stage at all (by atheist I mean somebody who genuinely believes there is no god)?
Or whether you still thought that God was real, but you were rebelling against him?
Or rebelling against those authorities who seemed to represented him on earth?

Peace.

Well the thing is people change a lot. I don't think there is any atheist who never considers teh posibility of a God. Usually people consider themselves atheist because they don't believe in teh existance of God "most of the times". I also don't think there is any single person out there who is convinced that there is no God, simply because that makes the most sense. I think each atheist will have it's motives and/or causes. People don't just hold an opinion out of nothingness.

[duskiness]

That leaves me to wonder whether you were real atheists at any stage at all (by atheist I mean somebody who genuinely believes there is no god)?

if remember correctly - then yes. i thought that there was no god, no higher power, no spirit, nothing supernatural

Or whether you still thought that God was real, but you were rebelling against him?

no, i had no reason to rebell agains Him

Or rebelling against those authorities who seemed to represented him on earth?

oh i did that for sure, but i doubt that was the "source" of my atheism. i think it was rather "inherited" (= all people i looked up to were atheists). my dislike for church made it only more emotional and stronger

sometimes it is easier to "see" god, when everything else is stripped away - as it is when you are facing death.

i agree (but i probably wouldn't be able to wrap it in words in english). it reminds me of this qoute (one of my favorite):

Then a great and powerful wind tore the mountains apart and shattered the rocks before the LORD, but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake, but the LORD was not in the earthquake. 12 After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper. 13 When Elijah heard it, he pulled his cloak over his face and went out and stood at the mouth of the cave

Life is often such a "noise" that we can't hear this whisper...Or at least mine was
n.