It’s pretty clear to me that one of the things the West fears/ opposes to is the setting up of an Islamic state/ government run and controlled by students/Scholars/ learned people who follow Islam. The question on my mind is why?
Is this a threat to them in some way? Do they assume that any Islamic state would send terrorists against them? Would they do that without a reason? Is Somaila really threat to them in some way? Why accuse the Islamic freedom fighters there to be training al-Qeada recruits?
If Nigeria executes someone according to Shari’a, y is it big world news in a negative way? Don’t other ppl in the US and other countries have the death penalty carried out on them?
Was Taliban a threat to the US? I know they were accused of hiding Bin-Laden so they bombed them. But isn’t fact that the Taliban was going to give up Bin-Laden if they provided them with proof? This seemed to be a reasonable request, especially since in my country a person is put on trial b4 he is extradited to the US for a crime. Or maybe proof wasn’t important and this man was guilty no matter what? How come all the negative propaganda about the Taliban on the western news just before 9-11? Did they need to turn the western public against the Taliban even b4 9-11 so what ever they had planned for them would seem justified?
Don’t drugs kill more ppl in the US than the 9-11 events? Isn’t drugs a bigger terror and the drug dealer a bigger terrorist killing more ppl around the world? I am sure drugs affects us a lot closer to our homes and lives more than any terrorist.
So with this in consideration, y don’t the US demand that the drug lords of Colombia and other countries be handed over and if not, then invade them also since they are a bigger threat to the US and the World than the Taliban or Hamas?
Don’t drugs kill more ppl in the US than the 9-11 events? Isn’t drugs a bigger terror and the drug dealer a bigger terrorist killing more ppl around the world? I am sure drugs affects us a lot closer to our homes and lives more than any terrorist.
So with this in consideration, y don’t the US demand that the drug lords of Colombia and other countries be handed over and if not, then invade them also since they are a bigger threat to the US and the World than the Taliban or Hamas?
What are your thoughts on this topic?
Yeah drugs are really big here in the U.S. tons of kids in highschool do it, especially pot. Alcohol to kills a lot of people every year. Don't really know why America doesn't acknowledge the fact that drugs are definitely a much greater problem to America. Some people very strongly believe It's a War On Islam.
Yeah drugs are really big here in the U.S. tons of kids in highschool do it, especially pot. Alcohol to kills a lot of people every year. Don't really know why America doesn't acknowledge the fact that drugs are definitely a much greater problem to America. Some people very strongly believe It's a War On Islam.
Sadly, although any one of is many times more likly to be killed by a crack head looking for money to buy crack, than by a terrorist. We do not see the threat because it seldom occurs enmass. The law and the government can only do what the people will support and so far the majority of the people do not see the drug lords in South America as affecting the average American. It is known that there are many drug related deaths, but the attitude seems to be, who cares it is only crack heads killing crack heads. Too many people see the drug problem as being a victimless crime.
muslims must fight to end oppression and injustice, that means where it could an islamic state would stop the west and especially the US oppressing people around the world. therefore it is a threat to the present world order and must be stopped at any cost.
however the more they fight islam, the more muslims see the truth behind the lies from their enemies, the more publicity there is the more people around the world revert to islam, so their war on terror / islam is backfiring big time and making what they fear the most more not less likely.
Don’t drugs kill more ppl in the US than the 9-11 events? Isn’t drugs a bigger terror and the drug dealer a bigger terrorist killing more ppl around the world? I am sure drugs affects us a lot closer to our homes and lives more than any terrorist.
So with this in consideration, y don’t the US demand that the drug lords of Colombia and other countries be handed over and if not, then invade them also since they are a bigger threat to the US and the World than the Taliban or Hamas?
I totally agree but its not just that west should think what they are doing and y they r doing ,its time for us(muslims) to unite and stand firmly against these oppressions .
Don’t drugs kill more ppl in the US than the 9-11 events? Isn’t drugs a bigger terror and the drug dealer a bigger terrorist killing more ppl around the world? I am sure drugs affects us a lot closer to our homes and lives more than any terrorist.
So with this in consideration, y don’t the US demand that the drug lords of Colombia and other countries be handed over and if not, then invade them also since they are a bigger threat to the US and the World than the Taliban or Hamas?
What are your thoughts on this topic?
Salam, Some facts on Drugs in America,
America has only 5% of the world population but consumes 60% of ALL illegal drugs produced in the world
There are 47 million school age kids in America, currently over 27 million of them try drugs and alcohol each year.
Alcohol kills about 80,000 each year in America
1,360,000 Drug Prisoners in America
1.7 million Americans are incarcerated in prisons or jails, more per capita than any other nation.
After reading this, I wonder why there is a war on terriosm and not on drugs....
wow.
So its clear that the "war on terror" is really a war on Islam or rather a war against Shari'ah and a true Islamic state. When all the terror in the world is taken into perspective it seems to be pretty obivious.
They may not fear individual praticing muslims, but rather a group of praticing muslims. But y would they fear this? Is it a war of ideology/religion vs islam..where one side is trying to survive the influence/spread of islam?
I don't think the U.S. cares whether an Islamic state exists or not, as long as it isn't oppressive towards its people and is a force of stability. Anyone who thinks President Bush and Tony Blair get together to discuss ways to "kill all those blasted Muslims" is suffering from delusions of grandeur.
So its clear that the "war on terror" is really a war on Islam or rather a war against Shari'ah and a true Islamic state. When all the terror in the world is taken into perspective it seems to be pretty obivious.
They may not fear individual praticing muslims, but rather a group of praticing muslims. But y would they fear this? Is it a war of ideology/religion vs islam..where one side is trying to survive the influence/spread of islam?
I really don't think it is a war against Islam. Most Americans are quite ignorant about what Muslims are. They have a lot of confusion as to it being a Religion, Culture or Race. I believe what happened with the war on terror is that they wanted an identifiable enemy with distinuishing features. It just so happened that the immediatly associated terrorists were mid-eastern and readily seen as identifiable from the typical Westerner. The Arab population became a recognisable face and something the label of terrorist could be placed on. Americans want to put a face on a name. The majority of Americans believe that all Arabs are Muslim and that all Muslims are Arab. The 3 became synonamous. Arab=Muslim=Terrorist.
I would not call it a war against Islam. I would call it prejudice against Arabs. Has anybody noticed that non-Arab Muslims have not been targeted? The war on Terror has been confined to Arabic nations. Non-Arab Muslims are not harassed. The problem is not that Americans are anti-Muslim, the problem is Americans are very racialy biased. Racial discrimination is still very much alive and active. I would say that virtually every non-white citizen in the USA has experienced prejudice, no matter what his religion is.
Obviously there are many racists in the U.S., just as there are in Arab countries, but you can't discuss this issue honestly by mentioning race and not terrorism. This situation didn't happen in a vacuum. That being said, many Americans don't understand Arab culture, not to mention the Muslim religion that comes with it in most cases. Americans know that we have enemies who fit that criteria. It makes it really difficult for the average Arab Muslim living in the United States and Western Europe. I think the problem is lack of communication. I think more Muslim leaders in the U.S. need more exposure to the American public in general, more time on T.V news, more T.V. programs that show average American Arab Muslims living in the U.S. The problem is just a lack of understanding, and that usually leads to fear and hatred.
So with this in consideration, y don’t the US demand that the drug lords of Colombia and other countries be handed over and if not, then invade them also since they are a bigger threat to the US and the World than the Taliban or Hamas?
What are your thoughts on this topic?
they do... mexico and columbia and other parts of south america have been destroyed in the US drug war... the drug lords are bad people and something should be done about it but the united states sometimes goes too far...
i think that is the same think like in afghanistan or in iraq... they have a good purpose in mind and something has to be done but they reck everybody elses life in the process... you should see what has happened to tijuana
It’s pretty clear to me that one of the things the West fears/ opposes to is the setting up of an Islamic state/ government run and controlled by students/Scholars/ learned people who follow Islam. The question on my mind is why?
Well, the same reason why America and its allies clashed with communism, the ideologies on both sides appear incompatible. So there is a natural tendency towards resistance, on both sides. Many in the West hope there will be a world wide acceptance of their values, which they associate with liberty and prosperity. Similarly, clearly many of those who profes political Islam have a global outlook on life, they hope to spread their truth to all, so that all societies can achieve social justice and freedom from domination by other men, by following Gods laws.
But of course, this incompatibility does not explain it all. There are historical circumstances that led us to this open clash and these hostilities. In my opinion Americans didn't care at all about Islam in politics or Islamic states until 1979, when the Islamic revolution took place in Iran and American embassy personel was taken hostage. This was the first time American foreign policy really started to take into account political Islam IMHO. Yet, even after 1979 the importance of 'Islam' in American policy was limited. The US didn't approach the Middle East and its dictators any differently than it approached dictators in other parts of the world, everything was viewed in the context of the Cold War. With the fall of the Wall and the removal of the communist threat American policy could focus clearly on the new threat that emerged, partly because of it's own actions in the region, actions that were IMHO never before framed as a 'fight against Islam'. For example the first Gulf War and the containment of Saddam. Heck, not even the support of Israel was framed in an Islamic context, but rather in one of arab nationalism. The same goes for the Somalia intervention in 1993, I don't remember anyone back than talking about the possibility of an Islamic state. The same goes for Bosnia. All that changed in 2001, suddenly all that mattered was Islam and everything in the region was related to it.
Muslims often act as if the resistance to Islam is an old phenonemon, a continuation of the crusades in the Middle Ages, but it was simply not a political issue, certainly not before 1979, but hardly even between 1979 and 2001. Muslim fanatism was not seen as a particular threat, it was only discussed in the context of, say, the civil war in Algeria. This war against a certain political interpretation of Islam is a new phenonemon.
Is this a threat to them in some way? Do they assume that any Islamic state would send terrorists against them?
They consider it likely, yes. Mainly because of their experience with the Taliban. Pious Muslims tend to protect and help their Muslim brothers, especially if that brother is disliked by kaffirs. While certainly even idealistic Islamic politicians are limited by some 'real politik', it is clear there is more support for 'freedom fighters' resisting 'zionist-crusaders' among those who favour an Islamic state. Such a state is simply more likely to protect and shelter those willing to conduct martyrdom operations against the perceived enemy, namely the US. Because lets be clear about this, it's not just Americans distrusting these regimes, it's also these regimes distrusting America. The hate goes both ways.
Would they do that without a reason? Is Somaila really threat to them in some way? Why accuse the Islamic freedom fighters there to be training al-Qeada recruits?
Because of the many contacts between Bin Laden and those around him and the Islamic Courts Union in Somalia. Like I said, these organizations share the same hope in the establishment of a caliphate and the destruction of non-Islamic government in the Muslim world. They are revolutionaries and thus a threat to the status quo and stability. For example, they have in the past sheltered those who were held responsible for the attacks on the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 in which over 300 people died.
If Nigeria executes someone according to Shari’a, y is it big world news in a negative way? Don’t other ppl in the US and other countries have the death penalty carried out on them?
Yeah, I agree on that. But it is related to the perceived incompatibility of ideology and thus values. Sharia law is different from Western law, which many Westerns think is 'universal'. So they are angry about it, some punishments are often seen as injust and 'barbaric'.
Was Taliban a threat to the US? I know they were accused of hiding Bin-Laden so they bombed them. But isn’t fact that the Taliban was going to give up Bin-Laden if they provided them with proof? This seemed to be a reasonable request, especially since in my country a person is put on trial b4 he is extradited to the US for a crime. Or maybe proof wasn’t important and this man was guilty no matter what?
The US was angry after 9/11. And impatient. The taliban were not even the recognized government of Afghanistan, only Saudi-Arabia and Pakistan recognized them. I doubt they had 'proof' in the legal sense right after the 9/11 attacks, but a US court of law had already indicted him for his supposed involvement in the 1998 embassy bombings. Remember that Bin Laden had already formally declared war against the United States a few years earlier, only now did they return the favor. After all he had openly declared he intended to attack the US:
format_quote Originally Posted by OBL
[t]he ruling to kill the Americans and their allies civilians and military - is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque (in Jerusalem) and the holy mosque (in Makka) from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty Allah, 'and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together,' and 'fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah'.
Before 9/11 this declaration was taken seriously, but not serious enough to warrant military action in response to the threat. After 9/11 this changed. In this context of an open declaration of war and a connection to earlier attacks against US targets, 'legal proof' was insufficient for the Americans. They wanted him, dead or alive, he was their public enemy #1. He wanted war, and he got war. The US no longer viewed the problem as one of law enforcement, but as one of defense, so it has now become a military matter. As Bush made clear in one of his speeches, the US considered anyone an enemy that was associated with him or that harbored him or associates.
How come all the negative propaganda about the Taliban on the western news just before 9-11? Did they need to turn the western public against the Taliban even b4 9-11 so what ever they had planned for them would seem justified?
The Americans hardly cared about the Taliban pre-9/11, there was also little interest in Afghanistan in general in the Western press and among the public. The Taliban got negative press, not because of a propaganda campaign by the US government, no mostly after reports by organizations like Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International and the UN. Again, there was a clash between the values espoused by the Taliban, especially their view on the role of women in society, and Western values. They appeared to be complete opposites. That led to negative press.
Don’t drugs kill more ppl in the US than the 9-11 events. Isn’t drugs a bigger terror and the drug dealer a bigger terrorist killing more ppl around the world? I am sure drugs affects us a lot closer to our homes and lives more than any terrorist.
Thats a bit silly. Thats a bit like saying: "Don't more Palestinians die in car accidents than of Israeli bullets, if so, why do so many Muslims criticize Israel?". The issue is the political agenda and the deliberate criminal act with the intention to undermine and disrupt society. Drugsellers want money, they do not have a political agenda, in their mind they are not involved in a 'war' with the society they sell drugs to.
So with this in consideration, y don’t the US demand that the drug lords of Colombia and other countries be handed over and if not, then invade them also since they are a bigger threat to the US and the World than the Taliban or Hamas?
Actually, the US is very much engaged in what the call the 'war on drugs', so they are certainly attempting to prosecute those who use or sell drugs. However, they don't invade, say, Columbia, because the country is itself actively hunting down drug traders. So any comparison with the Taliban is quite ludicrous, because:
1. There is no politics involved (i.e. a declaration of war)
2. The country in question is already attempting to eradicate the problem
Yeah drugs are really big here in the U.S. tons of kids in highschool do it, especially pot. Alcohol to kills a lot of people every year. Don't really know why America doesn't acknowledge the fact that drugs are definitely a much greater problem to America.
Ehm, are you serious? The US has one of the toughest anti-narcotics laws and enforcement in the developed world. They most certainly take it serious. Just because one problem is bigger than another doesn't mean the smaller problem should be ignored.
I really don't think it is a war against Islam. Most Americans are quite ignorant about what Muslims are. They have a lot of confusion as to it being a Religion, Culture or Race. I believe what happened with the war on terror is that they wanted an identifiable enemy with distinuishing features. It just so happened that the immediatly associated terrorists were mid-eastern and readily seen as identifiable from the typical Westerner. The Arab population became a recognisable face and something the label of terrorist could be placed on. Americans want to put a face on a name. The majority of Americans believe that all Arabs are Muslim and that all Muslims are Arab. The 3 became synonamous. Arab=Muslim=Terrorist.
To the 'common man' perhaps. But those who direct American foreign policy are not that ignorant and don't use simplistic logic like that.
Certain interpretations of Islam became the enemy, because those who attack the US do it in name of Islam, simple. When you write pages of stuff like: "This is in accordance with the words of Almighty Allah, 'and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together,' and 'fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah'.". Well, lets just say you get the impression Islam has something to do with it.
I would not call it a war against Islam. I would call it prejudice against Arabs. Has anybody noticed that non-Arab Muslims have not been targeted? The war on Terror has been confined to Arabic nations. Non-Arab Muslims are not harassed. The problem is not that Americans are anti-Muslim, the problem is Americans are very racialy biased. Racial discrimination is still very much alive and active. I would say that virtually every non-white citizen in the USA has experienced prejudice, no matter what his religion is.
I disagree. While this may be true for some bigots, but overall even Americans realize this is about Islam, not Arabs.
they do... mexico and columbia and other parts of south america have been destroyed in the US drug war... the drug lords are bad people and something should be done about it but the united states sometimes goes too far...
The US war on drugs destroyed Mexico and Columbia? Could you elaborate?
i think that is the same think like in afghanistan or in iraq... they have a good purpose in mind and something has to be done but they reck everybody elses life in the process... you should see what has happened to tijuana
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Some questions on my mind.
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