as many of you may be aware of Bush's statements regarding God spoke to him and told him to do certain things:
'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'"
Now this poses a new avenue of questions for Christians in SPECIFIC:
- Do you believe what he said?
- Does God really speak to people 1-on-1 and tell them to go around doing things?
- If yes then would you believe me if I told you God told me to do something?
What if tomorrow people started killing others and said "God told me to"
Is this an acceptable excuse?
What about vigilanti justice? Should it be carried out because someone said "God told me to?"
What justification is there in this world for "God told me to" in the legal and logical sense?
These are important questions because they demonstrate 1 out of 3 possibilities:
A) Either George Bush is a liar
B) Either George Bush is a lunatic (mentally insane)
C) God is really speaking to George Bush
====================================
So to get to my question (in particular to Christians on his board) - what do you believe out of the 3 choices above and most importanly how can you confirm that "god is speaking to someone" and its not lunacy or lies? Please provide solid evidence to back your claims.
6:93. And who can be more unjust than he who invents a lie against Allâh, or says: "I have received inspiration," whereas he is not inspired in anything; and who says, "I will reveal the like of what Allâh has revealed." And if you could but see when the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong*doers, etc.) are in the agonies of death, while the angels are stretching forth their hands (saying): "Deliver your souls! This day you shall be recompensed with the torment of degradation because of what you used to utter against Allâh other than the truth. And you used to reject His Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) with disrespect! "
“Do not argue with your Lord on behalf of your soul, rather argue with your soul on behalf of your Lord.” - Dhul-Nun
"It is the very pursuit of happiness that thwarts happiness." - Victor Frankl
This man is so ignorant the you would be hard pressed to find some one that doesn't critisice him. You know times are hard when a man like Bush leads one of the most powerful nations on earth.
In fact what he says is used by many as an entertainment source. Many accuse him of butchering the english language and fear the new form of the language known as Bushism!:
Let me come out with this plain and simply: yes, many Christians believe that God speaks to them directly! (The truth is out now! )
I am not sure I have met anybody who has actually heard God speak to them audibly. Instead most people I have discussed this with, will say that this has come in the form of a prompting of the Holy Spirit:
a strong persistent thought forming inside their heads, or
situations prompting them into a certain direction repeatedly, or
Bible passages standing out in particular, or
sermons touching the heart in a special way, or relating particularly to a situation, or
having particularly vivid dreams
Does any of this make sense?
Now it has to be made clear, that any such occurance has to be weighed up very carefully!!!
Otherwise, somebody may follow the first angry thought that pops into their head, and go out to kill their neighbour because 'God told him so'! Or somebody may go and start a war because 'God told him so'!! (And occasionally that really does happen!)
To weigh the truth of such occurances up, people need to
Wait for 'confirmation' - i.e. is this a one-off occurance, or does it repeat itself?
Check and discuss the situation with other, more mature Christians, and get their opinion
It has to be confirmed in the Bible
I would say that at least the latter two have to be done, before I would take any 'word of God' seriously at all.
Otherwise what you believe to be the 'word of God', may be from Satan or just wishful thinking on behalf of the person himself!
Do I feel God speaks to me directly? Yes, I do!
Do I think God told Bush to wage war in the Middle East? Most definitely not!
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
Let me come out with this plain and simply: yes, many Christians believe that God speaks to them directly! (The truth is out now! )
So technically, wouldn't that make every christian a prophet?
I am not sure I have met anybody who has actually heard God speak to them audibly. Instead most people I have discussed this with, will say that this has come in the form of a prompting of the Holy Spirit:
a strong persistent thought forming inside their heads, or
situations prompting them into a certain direction repeatedly, or
Bible passages standing out in particular, or
sermons touching the heart in a special way, or relating particularly to a situation, or
having particularly vivid dreams
Does any of this make sense?
How does this relate to a revelation? these are just normal signs.
So technically, wouldn't that make every christian a prophet?
Not in the sense of adding to God's word ... but yes, some Christians refer to these as 'prophetic words'.
(I'm very hestitant to enter any further into this debate, because I can see that it will lead to misunderstandings ... )
How does this relate to a revelation? these are just normal signs.
So these are signs Muslims would also consider to be from God? We are in agreement then!
Don't know what you mean by revelation? A burning-bush-type-thing?
I don't know of any Christian in my circle of friends who has claimed to ever have had one of those ...
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
Quote:
'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'
That sounds just like something from the mouth of a schitzophernic.. the voices told me to do this and do that and I did it! Only in Bush's case it wasn't God.
Not in the sense of adding to God's word ... but yes, some Christians refer to these as 'prophetic words'.
(I'm very hestitant to enter any further into this debate, because I can see that it will lead to misunderstandings ... )
Ok fair enough, that case I suggest you don't. Rather safe then sorry right?
So these are signs Muslims would also consider to be from God? We are in agreement then!
Don't know what you mean by revelation? A burning-bush-type-thing?
I don't know of any Christian in my circle of friends who has claimed to ever have had one of those ...
Well the difrence is. The things that you listed, I would interpretet that as guidance, not as prophetic. In fact I shall refer to it as revelation rather then prophecy, because I'm uncomfterble using the word like this. The difrence between those two is:
1. A revelation (with words) would be like a clear cut advice/command , whereas the other is more like arrow pointing you in a direction.
2. A revelation would make God's existance obvious (thus changing believing into knowing) whereas signs still give atheism teh benefit of the doubt. They can be denied as coincedential, so to follow them takes faith.
Signs are something every nation in the past has searched for wether from their Prophets or on a personal basis....
Quoting a verse from the Bible, I think it would show what kind of people are always seeking after signs - it is something to think about indeed...
Mathew:12
35: A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
36: But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
38: Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.
39: But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given it but the sign of Jonah the prophet:
Ok fair enough, that case I suggest you don't. Rather safe then sorry right?
Well the difrence is. The things that you listed, I would interpretet that as guidance, not as prophetic. In fact I shall refer to it as revelation rather then prophecy, because I'm uncomfterble using the word like this. The difrence between those two is:
1. A revelation (with words) would be like a clear cut advice/command , whereas the other is more like arrow pointing you in a direction.
2. A revelation would make God's existance obvious (thus changing believing into knowing) whereas signs still give atheism teh benefit of the doubt. They can be denied as coincedential, so to follow them takes faith.
Hi Steve
That's why I was hestitant about entering the 'prophecy' issue - because I think we don't disagree on how God 'speaks' to or 'gives signs' to his people, we may merely disagree on the use of the word 'prophecy' ...
Back to the thread topic, I think it would be interesting to find out just what Bush means by God having spoken to him ...
I very much doubt that it was a revelation as you define it.
peace
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
I highly doubt it was "God." I think it's just him telling himself...
God has left it up to us now with what we do. The steps we take. God has completed this idea of telling His people a long time ago...
Even if God was to do this...I think He would chose a more "pious" person...not Bush...>.<
*Without Allah, without Islam, life would be meaningless. If I've ever learned patience, it's because of this. Alhamdulillah...*
well, i knew a guy who shot someone because (he said) god told him to do it.
he spent 10 years in prison, which seems like a good thing to me.
unfortunately, some people are above the law.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
I highly doubt it was "God." I think it's just him telling himself...
God has left it up to us now with what we do. The steps we take. God has completed this idea of telling His people a long time ago...
Even if God was to do this...I think He would chose a more "pious" person...not Bush...>.<
I think that there are people who pray so hard for an answer that they decide that they received an answer and the answer is to do what they wanted to do in the first place.
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