"He who does not have a sheikh"

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I heard a man esteemed due to his knowledge to say

"he who does not have a sheikh, surely his sheikh is the shaytaan"

what do the brothers and sisters of this forum have to say about this? is it very true? surely sheikhs are important but i dont have one...

[lolwatever]

that's pure madh-habism and sectarianism subhanallah!!
Since when was knowledge localised or restrictred to a particular sheikh or individual!

[IbnAbdulHakim]

that's pure madh-habism and sectarianism subhanallah!!
Since when was knowledge localised or restrictred to a particular sheikh or individual!

lol bro now you just went off the boat into extreme vill try to understand where its coming from first. Without a sheikh we're all just using our own understanding right? We're all just using various different books which could lead into confusion and thus misleading ourselves and others?

So i think theres much knowledge in this statement, because if theres no man of knowledge to guide us then surely we will be lost because even the quran said "and if you dont know then ask the learned men" and NOTE he did NOT say, "turn to books and read read read" lol, theres a difference...

[lolwatever]

lol bro now you just went off the boat into extreme vill try to understand where its coming from first. Without a sheikh we're all just using our own understanding right? We're all just using various different books which could lead into confusion and thus misleading ourselves and others?

So i think theres much knowledge in this statement, because if theres no man of knowledge to guide us then surely we will be lost because even the quran said "and if you dont know then ask the learned men" and NOTE he did NOT say, "turn to books and read read read" lol, theres a difference...

But since when was the quran adn books of hadith suppose to be encrypted voodoo that needed to be deciphered by some specialised person There's a very big difference between learning to make fatwa and learning to understand your religion....

Also even bigger evidence agains that, is the hadith that "towadrs end of time people (around maqdis) will come across papers and raed these papers, and love me based on reading these papers, they are the best of their time" it deosnt say they went and found a shaykh to make them undersatnd wat those papers mean...

MIND YOU our scholars are VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY valuable becasue of their extensive knowledge and undersanding in fiqh etc, but it doesnt take a brainer or a sheikh to learn the main points of your religion from quran and sunnah and books that are compatable with them.

salams

[IbnAbdulHakim]

lol mashaAllah, bro subhanAllah i must admit that hadith shocked me could you perhaps show me the exact hadith?

but still can we really say that self-learned people learn better or understand better then those who learn from someone more wiser?

[Umar001]

I think personally for alot of things you'll need people there, but I don't know if you just have to have one shaykh.

For example, to learn Qu'ran you'll need someone, since you need your tajweed corrected. To learn from books and so on and manners, it is best to have a teacher too, 1 for the same reason they have one at school, plus because you'll learn more if you have a shaykh with you.

I have heard similar statments from that of the one at the start of the Post, though I must say aparently shaykh Al Albani in his early days didn't have a shaykh. And learned by himself in a library to the point that the library even ended up givin him his own room

MashAlah

[IbnAbdulHakim]

of course, we dont just take one person then blindly follow him lol thats not very smart, we take people that are experts in area's and learn from the area's they've mastered.

Also even the khalifa rashideen and the four imams had sheikhs right? so...

[lolwatever]

lol mashaAllah, bro subhanAllah i must admit that hadith shocked me could you perhaps show me the exact hadith?

but still can we really say that self-learned people learn better or understand better then those who learn from someone more wiser?

salams bro i actually ehard it when i was at a hereafter lecture a year or so ago.. im tryign to remember the wording i heard in arabic, if i find ill let u know insh!

salamz

[lolwatever]

found it alhamdulilah

ولنعلم ان رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم يقول :
"أي الناس أعجب إيمانا؟ قالوا: أنت يا رسول الله، فقال: ومالي لا أؤمن والوحي يتنزل علي، قالوا: فنحن يا رسول الله قال: وما لكم لا تؤمنون وأنا بين ظهرانيكم، قالوا :فمن يا رسول الله؟ قال: قوم يأتون بعدكم فلا يرون إلا صحفا فيؤمنون بها فأولئك أعجب الناس إيمانا " رواه الترمذي

its not xaclty wat i was lookn 4, but its xactly same point:

the prophet said "who's the most amazing in iman",

they said "you o messenger of allah", he said "and why wouldnt i believe when the revelation is actually coming to me?",

they said "then it is us o prophet of allah?",

he said "and why wouldnt u believe and i'm amognst you?"

they said: "then who o messenger of allah?"

he said: "A people who will come after me, they will only find documents and they will believe in them, they are teh most amazing in iman"

Narrated by tirmidhi...

salamz

[FBI]

I disagree with the original statement, just cause someone might not be studying under a shiek doesn't mean he's taking advice from shaytan.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

lol bro mashaAllah i read that lol but still we ask for proof for everything and believe once its been authenticated, i still think a sheikh is extremely important to hav...

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I disagree with the original statement, just cause someone might not be studying under a shiek doesn't mean he's taking advice from shaytan.

True but if you think about it everyone needs someone to keep them in line. Even the khalifa Abu Bakr RA asked for his people to keep him in line, Umar RA said Alhamdulillaah when someone stood up and said they'll straighten him wiv their swords if he goes astray...

[lolwatever]

lol bro mashaAllah i read that lol but still we ask for proof for everything and believe once its been authenticated, i still think a sheikh is extremely important to hav...

yeh ofcourse, but if you're reading sahih bukhari/muslim and the quran just to learn about ur religion, why do you need a sheikh there

I'm not understating the role of sheikhs in explaining to us many important fields of fiqh, but not having a sheikh is no excuse for not becoming a top Muslim

just incase im being misunderstood... i'm not saying once we read hadith and quran we qualify as scholasr to give fatwa... there's dfif between learning about the most important aspects of ur religion and gaining rewards, and making fatwa. The former doesn't need a certified trainer to take you through that, the latter probably does.

[Curaezipirid]

I don't have any problem with Madhabism, and in fact support that each we need to find that discipline, among those available in Islam, which best supports our mentation.

I believe also that we each need a leader, and in fact, am certain in believing that we all each need each other so as to sustain any work effort, and that leaders are a significant social function. Whom can sustain themselves in Islam without the authority of an external individual?

But as for needing to follow a Sheik so as to not fall to the shaytan . . .
well, I reckon my sons were whom I followed so as to awaken, and they surely are not the shaytan.

Whom did they follow? masha Allah my sons believe in a positive future.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

lol bro because the sheikh may know more about the hadith your studying and may know other hadith which emcompass that hadith.

Also its hard to become a top muslim wivout a sheikh because theres many things we may get wrong, also if we are considered the top sheikh then there still maybe many things which is wrong wiv us but we just dont know it...

[lolwatever]

lol bro because the sheikh may know more about the hadith your studying and may know other hadith which emcompass that hadith.

Also its hard to become a top muslim wivout a sheikh because theres many things we may get wrong, also if we are considered the top sheikh then there still maybe many things which is wrong wiv us but we just dont know it...

lol ok bro my point is, where's the evidence that says u need a sheikh or ull be misguided

[Malaikah]

"he who does not have a sheikh, surely his sheikh is the shaytaan"

I would agree it would be awesome to learn from a shiekh but to suggest that if you dont have one that your sheikh is the shaitan is just going too far!!!!!

Learning from an educated person is the best, it just sinks in so much better when its explained by speech rather than just reading.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i dont know bro i dont have evidence i came here to collect opinions.

But through history we see that the khalifaa always had people to learn from, the four great imaams learnt from great scholars right? Ibn Taymiyyah must have had a sheikh and we know the sheikhs of ibn katheer and qayyim etc. So it seems to me that all the great scholars of the past had sheikhs and even Musa AS when he knew that theres someone wiser went in search for him (dhul-kifl), this shows that when you understand that your intelligence isnt the best then you should look for others to learn from right?

im not saying you will be misguided if you dont have a sheikh (even though maaaany people do get misguided) im saying that its better to have a sheikh and veeery risky to not have one... right?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

I would agree it would be awesome to learn from a shiekh but to suggest that if you dont have one that your sheikh is the shaitan is just going too far!!!!!

Learning from an educated person is the best, it just sinks in so much better when its explained by speech rather than just readying.

mashaAllah, i 200% agree !

[Umar001]

Yea but guys in some ways we are learning from shaykhs not in the way the original poster meant though.

But it is good to have mentor a person or people you can learn from directly, because through that then you get the specific knowledge and it is easier, for example, you have a shaykh, you come to a wrong conclusion, he'd correct you inshaAllah, if you didnt have him there, you might have that wrong conclusion for a while before you are corrected. Same with reading books and so on, your mentors can tell you which books are good and why, and so forth.

The benefits are endless.