why are the muslims losing if islam is the truth?

[aqonsi]

everywhere around the world the kufar r killing us, and having the upper hand over us, why is this the case if islam is the truth, and didn't allah promise us vicotry if we believe?

im very confused at why this is happening.

[- Qatada -]

If you look in islamic history, you'll notice that Allaah grants victory to those who strive hard to earn it. If you look at the lives of the companions of the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) - you'll see that they were tortured at the beginning and put under heavy trials - all these trials were to strengthen their emaan [faith] so they would hold onto their islaam tighter, they love it more - and in return with this hardship - Allaah soon granted them victory. Why? Because now they were fit enough to apply islaam due to the fact that they had sacrificed so much for it already.


There are two stages within the life of Muhammad (peace be upon him) - the Makkan Period and the Medinan Period, we as muslims in the west are still in the Makkan period where we don't have an islamic state to make hijrah to, and we are humiliated. The reason for this humiliation is due to the fact that we turned away from the religion of Allaah, and now you can look in the islamic world and the muslims are turning back to Allaah, they are fighting back to defend their faith, the victory will come soon inshaa'Allaah, but this can only come through striving hard, being patient and placing our trust in Allaah.


Here's a top lecture by Imaam Anwar al-Awlaki:


Allah is preparing us for victory-Part I:
http://www.salaattime.com/downloads/...0Part%2001.mp3

Allah is preparing us for victory-Part II:
http://www.salaattime.com/downloads/...0Part%2002.mp3



You can find more of his lectures here inshaa'Allaah:

Imaam Anwar al Awlaki - Lot's of Downloadable Lectures - Free insha'Allaah.

[aqonsi]

i understand what you said brother but...
im saying why do we ever face defeat if we have believed?

[aqonsi]

doesn't the fact that we have believed in allah mean anything?
or do we have to get technology to help us.

[- Qatada -]

You mean when fighting in the battlefield? Do you mean that if we believers, we should gain victory all the time? If so, i think this aayat explains it well:


If a wound (and killing) has touched you, be sure a similar wound (and killing) has touched the others. And so are the days (good and not so good), We give to men by turns, that Allah may test those who believe, and that He may take martyrs from among you. And Allah likes not the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong*doers). [Qur'an 3:140]



(So do not become weak), because of what you suffered,



[وَلاَ تَحْزَنُوا وَأَنتُمُ الاٌّعْلَوْنَ إِن كُنتُم مُّؤْمِنِين


َ]
(nor be sad, and you will be triumphant if you are indeed believers), for surely, the ultimate victory and triumph will be yours, O believers.



[إِن يَمْسَسْكُمْ قَرْحٌ فَقَدْ مَسَّ الْقَوْمَ قَرْحٌ مِّثْلُهُ]


(If a wound has touched you, be sure a similar wound has touched the others) [3:140].


Therefore, the Ayah says, if you suffered injuries and some of you were killed, then your enemies also suffered injuries and fatalities.
[وَتِلْكَ الاٌّيَّامُ نُدَاوِلُهَا بَيْنَ النَّاسِ


]
(And so are the days, that We give to men by turns) , and at times -- out of wisdom -- We allow the enemy to overcome you, although the final good end will be yours.



[وَلِيَعْلَمَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ]


(and that Allah may know (test) those who believe,) meaning, "So that We find out who would be patient while fighting the enemies,'' according to Ibn `Abbas.


[وَيَتَّخِذَ مِنكُمْ شُهَدَآءَ]


(and that He may take martyrs from among you) those who would be killed in Allah's cause and gladly offer their lives seeking His pleasure.


[وَاللَّهُ لاَ يُحِبُّ الظَّـلِمِينَوَلِيُمَحِّصَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ
]
(And Allah likes not the wrongdoers. And that Allah may test those who believe) [3:140,141], by forgiving them their sins if they have any. Otherwise, Allah will raise their grades according to the losses they suffered.


http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=3&tid=9419

[aqonsi]

ok, then why does allah give victory to the Zalimun, if he doesn't like them?

[aqonsi]

so defeat is actually a good thing?

[glo]

everywhere around the world the kufar r killing us, and having the upper hand over us, why is this the case if islam is the truth, and didn't allah promise us vicotry if we believe?

im very confused at why this is happening.

The idea that God protects 'his people' is a very simplistic one - and one that's used by Christians too.

I find it very hurtful when people explain political situations and natural disasters as 'God's punishment for certain groups of people' - for example the tsumani and the earth quake in Pakistan, which largely affected Muslim communities, and Hurricane Kathrina, which largely affected Christian communities.

We have to ask ourselves, who do we think we are to assume to know God's ways and purposes???
Thing is, God's plan and purpose is much more complex than we as humans can ever see and understand.
Bad things happen to good people, and vice versa.

We have to trust that we will receive our reward when God's timing is right - be that is this life or in the next.

Peace, brother

[- Qatada -]

Yep, defeat in islaam is more wide ranged compared to how others think it. Victory is also, for instance the tafsir of the verses i posted above is from surah aal imraan [3rd surah in the qur'an] and the scholars differ on if the battle was a victory or defeat, even though there was so much loss for the muslims in matters of men. Yet Allaah took martyrs from among them, and it is a like a gold mine of lessons for the whole ummah to reflect on.


If i get the time, i'll post up the different definitions of defeat and victory in islaam inshaa'Allaah

[Abdul-Raouf]

In islam there is a difference between a muslim and a mu'min....... If all the muslims are mu'min we wouldn have faced any difficulties... but that isnt the case...... Masha'allah

[netprince]

This whole 'argument' was so eloquently put in Allama Iqbals Shikwa (complaint). When no-one could provide an answer to his complaint he himself had to provide the answer with Jawab-e-Shikwa. If you are an urdu reader then have a read of it.

Brother, the muslims have left the truth of islam, they have left the ideals of islam. People only pay 'lip service' to islam in this day, the truth rarely sinks into peoples hearts.

[aqonsi]

Yep, defeat in islaam is more wide ranged compared to how others think it. Victory is also, for instance the tafsir of the verses i posted above is from surah aal imraan [3rd surah in the qur'an] and the scholars differ on if the battle was a victory or defeat, even though there was so much loss for the muslims in matters of men. Yet Allaah took martyrs from among them, and it is a like a gold mine of lessons for the whole ummah to reflect on.


If i get the time, i'll post up the different definitions of defeat and victory in islaam inshaa'Allaah

so brother are you telling me, that your brothers being killed your sisters being raped and their children killed is a good thing?

we are muslims, doesn't that mean anything?

and the way ur saying it, means that we can be the best muslims in th world, yet allah can give us defeat, then what is the point of being good muslims?

[aqonsi]

The idea that God protects 'his people' is a very simplistic one - and one that's used by Christians too.

I find it very hurtful when people explain political situations and natural disasters as 'God's punishment for certain groups of people' - for example the tsumani and the earth quake in Pakistan, which largely affected Muslim communities, and Hurricane Kathrina, which largely affected Christian communities.

We have to ask ourselves, who do we think we are to assume to know God's ways and purposes???
Thing is, God's plan and purpose is much more complex than we as humans can ever see and understand.
Bad things happen to good people, and vice versa.

We have to trust that we will receive our reward when God's timing is right - be that is this life or in the next.

Peace, brother

i understand what you are saying, but god is with those who believe in him right?

[aqonsi]

In islam there is a difference between a muslim and a mu'min....... If all the muslims are mu'min we wouldn have faced any difficulties... but that isnt the case...... Masha'allah

who are you to judge the muslims?

just becuase you see the muslims in this situation you come to strange conclusions like that, without any proof.

[aqonsi]

This whole 'argument' was so eloquently put in Allama Iqbals Shikwa (complaint). When no-one could provide an answer to his complaint he himself had to provide the answer with Jawab-e-Shikwa. If you are an urdu reader then have a read of it.

Brother, the muslims have left the truth of islam, they have left the ideals of islam. People only pay 'lip service' to islam in this day, the truth rarely sinks into peoples hearts.

with all due respect, who are you to judge the muslims like this?

we believe in allah, that is a big deal, we don't commit shirk!!

that makes us muslim.

[- Qatada -]

I never said that its a good thing, infact its the ummah's duty to protect the muslims being harmed. At the same time, if we reflect on the lives of the companions of the Messenger of Allaah, Muhammad (peace be upon him) - they even tasted defeat in the battle of uhud, yet they were the best people among mankind after the prophets.


Allaah has raised the levels of the martyrs/shuhadaah in paradise because they have sacrificed their wealth and their lives for His cause. What better sacrifice is there than that? To the enemy this seems like victory for them, yet its victory for the believer because He has been killed for the sake of Allaah.

Virtues of the Martyrs
http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=3&tid=9857


If the muslims had victory all the time, the disbelievers would even join the ranks of the muslims, while pretending to be muslims because they would feel that without a doubt the muslims will win. And therefore get a share of the wealth earned within the war.

This means there would be loads of hypocrites among the muslims, which would actually worsen the muslim situation - because hypocrites are a worser enemy than a person who clearly shows his disbelief and enmity towards the believers.


And Allaah Almighty knows best.

[Abdul-Raouf]

OOPs sorry i meant in a different way.......dont misunderstand.. OMG

[aqonsi]

I never said that its a good thing, infact its the ummah's duty to protect the muslims being harmed. At the same time, if we reflect on the lives of the companions of the Messenger of Allaah, Muhammad (peace be upon him) - they even tasted defeat in the battle of uhud, yet they were the best people among mankind after the prophets.


Allaah has raised the levels of the martyrs/shuhadaah in paradise because they have sacrificed their wealth and their lives for His cause. What better sacrifice is there than that? To the enemy this seems like victory for them, yet its victory for the believer because He has been killed for the sake of Allaah.

Virtues of the Martyrs
http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=3&tid=9857


If the muslims had victory all the time, the disbelievers would even join the ranks of the muslims, while pretending to be muslims because they would feel that without a doubt the muslims will win. And therefore get a share of the wealth earned within the war.

This means there would be loads of hypocrites among the muslims, which would actually worsen the muslim situation - because hypocrites are a worser enemy than a person who clearly shows his disbelief and enmity towards the believers.


And Allaah Almighty knows best.

so im confused.... deafeat is good yet muslims being harmed is bad?

[- Qatada -]

Muslims being harmed is bad, being defeated fits under alot of categories which i said i would post later inshaa'Allaah.

Defeat & Victory have more meanings than what we have simply heard. And an example I gave was when a muslim who is killed for the sake of Allaah; while to the disbeliever it seems like victory, yet the believer gains victory because he has gained a high rank in paradise inshaa'Allaah.

I never said defeat was always a good thing, what i've stated is that victory and defeat have more meanings than what you may have simply heard of. Therefore what may seem as defeat to you may not be defeat according to Islaam.


And Allaah knows best.

[waji]

ok, then why does allah give victory to the Zalimun, if he doesn't like them?

so defeat is actually a good thing?

remember Loosing Hope is Defeat