Made from light Made from clay.
No Mistakes. Makes mistakes All the time.
Cannot do bad only good. Does sins continously.
They don't have desire (hawa). Everyone has desire.
Always worshipping Allah. Worships Allah sometimes.
Always submitted to Allah's will. Deficient in submission.
From the above it may be clear that the Angels won...But think again
Lets look at ayat of Qur'an.
Imam Ahmad says man can do bad or good and he has a free choice. We have desire (hawa) and fight desire to follow commands of Allah. To overpower that hawa and submit the commands of Allah makes us better than Angels so humans are better.
Sura Al-Mu'minun ayah 5-7.
Also look at Sura Al-Baqqarah ayah 34.
"And (remember) when We said to the Angels: "Prostrate yourselves to Adam." And they prostrated except Iblis (Satan), he refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers." (2:34).
Man is better than Angels because of this ayah...right
There is another opinion that refutes this opinion. We as humans have to bow down facing the Kaaba. Obviously no human is better then the Kaaba a stone. We bow down towards to Kaaba to symbolize obedience to Allah commands just like the angels, not because it is better than us. So it does not mean Kaaba is better than Adam. And so Humans are not better than Angels because of prostration alone.
Look at Sura Isra 61:
"And (remember) when We said to the angels: "Prostrate unto Adam." They postrated except Iblis (Satan). He said: "Shall I prostrate to one whom you created from clay?"
Obviously Adam is better since Iblis 'slogic of material creation being better is meaningless.
Another look at how Adam was created and How Angels were created.
Allah created Angels from words (Kun faya Kun..Be and it is). But Allah created Adam with his own two hands (SubhanAllah) and gave Adam a soul.
"So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him." (Surah Sad:72)
So Adam is better because of how he was created. Word vs. Hands of Allah Ta'ala.
The debate b/w scholars will continue...There is more but what do you guys think so far..... I thought it is one of the most interesting things ever. I will finish later.
It is an interesting discussion... may I ask if you have any sources for those opinions?
Regarding this point:
Another look at how Adam was created and How Angels were created. Allah created Angels from words (Kun faya Kun..Be and it is). But Allah created Adam with his own two hands (SubhanAllah) and gave Adam a soul.
"So when I have fashioned him and breathed into him (his) soul created by Me, then you fall down prostrate to him." (Surah Sad:72)
So Adam is better because of how he was created. Word vs. Hands of Allah Ta'ala.
We also have the following verse to consider:
Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allâh is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was. [3:59]
It is an interesting discussion... may I ask if you have any sources for those opinions?
Regarding this point:
We also have the following verse to consider:
Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allâh is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was. [3:59]
The evidence can be found in Tafsir Ibn Kathir in the famous debate with Musa and Adam. Musa supplicated to Allah to meet Adam..."O my Lord! Show me Adam who caused us and himself to be thrown out of Paradise.'' When Musa met Adam, he said to him, "Are you Adam whom Allah created with His Own Hands, blew life into and commanded the angels to prostrate before''
The debate continued:
"'You are Adam who led people astray and brought them out of the Garden.' Adam said to him, 'You are Musa to whom Allah gave knowledge of everything and whom he chose above people with His message.' He said, 'Yes.' He said, 'Are you blaming me for a matter which was decreed before I was created? "
Next argument that Man is better is that man is Khalifa on earth not angels
As stated in Al-Baqarah:30
"Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth."
Angels were not given this special Khalifa status.
When Allah created angles did Allah teach them the names of everything under the heavens or did Allah teach Adam the names of everything under the heavens. Allah taught Adam the names. Angels thought they were the most learned of Allah's creation as stated in. It was not stated with their tongues but was kept inside their hearts. Allah revealed that it was what they were thinking if you read Al-Baqarah: 31-33
"And He taught Adam all the names (of everything), then He showed them to the Angels and said "Tell me the names of these things if you are truthful." They (angels) said: "Subhanaka, we have no knowledge except what you taught us. Verily, it is You, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise."
He said: "O Adam! Inform them of their names," and when he had informed them of their names, He said: "Did I not tell you that I know the unseen in the heavens and the earth, and I know what you reveal and what you have been concealing?"
When it comes to knowledge who is better one with more knowledge or one without or less knowledge. Obviously one with more knowledge as rhetorically stated in Quran.
Surah Az-Zumar:9
"...Say 'Are those who know equal to those who know not...?'"
And the winner is the Humans...
No says Ibn Taymiyah he states that "Angels are better in this life and human beings are better in the next life." The reason being is because angels do not make any mistakes in this present world and humans do. In the next life, the day of recompense of deeds, muttaqeen will be better than the angels because they will be rewarded with eternal paradise. The angels will not have this unique reward.
Surah An-Naba:30
"Verily, the Muttaqun, there will be success (Paradise).
That concludes the debate...What do you think?
Moral of debate:
Lets us all be amongst the Mutaqeen who will enjoy paradise and be the best creation of Allah (swt). Wouldn't we all love that...To be the best creation of The Creator of Everything.
Moral of debate:
Lets us all be amongst the Mutaqeen who will enjoy paradise and be the best creation of Allah (swt). InshaAllah! Wouldn't we all love that, Sure! ...To be the best creation of The Creator of Everything. Alhamdulilah!
Moral of debate:
Lets us all be amongst the Mutaqeen who will enjoy paradise and be the best creation of Allah (swt). Wouldn't we all love that...To be the best creation of The Creator of Everything.
Moral of debate
Let us be the amongst the men who try to understand their unique duty on this earth. Let's behave like the deputies of Allah and look after his earth as long as we're here. Let's enjoy the blessings of Allah and make this world a happy and cheerful place to live for everyone. Allah would be happy if he sees us happy and making positive use of his blessings.
Never try to lower your status and never try to behave like angels. It's like getting the salary of a high class engineer but doing the job of a machine operator.
Faith, to my mind, is a stiffening process, a sort of mental starch.
Do we literally believe that Allah made Adam (P) by His own hands ?
Allah ordered Jinn & Angels to bow down to Adam (P). It's a clear proof that human being are better /more respected than angels & jinn
I think every Muslim knows this point very well but still they're mislead by some people who try to prove that angels are superior to man. Any man who tries to look like an angel is not better than a man who acts or walks like a real man.
Faith, to my mind, is a stiffening process, a sort of mental starch.
Do we literally believe that Allah made Adam (P) by His own hands ?
Allah ordered Jinn & Angels to bow down to Adam (P). It's a clear proof that human being are better /more respected than angels & jinn
Yes read the 4th post.
The evidence can be found in Tafsir Ibn Kathir in the famous debate with Musa and Adam. Musa supplicated to Allah to meet Adam..."O my Lord! Show me Adam who caused us and himself to be thrown out of Paradise.'' When Musa met Adam, he said to him, "Are you Adam whom Allah created with His Own Hands, blew life into and commanded the angels to prostrate before''
Ibn Taymiyah said "Angels are better in this life and human beings are better in the next life." Read my other post to get the full debate...It is so interesting.
Ibn Taymiyah said "Angels are better in this life and human beings are better in the next life." Read my other post to get the full debate...It is so interesting.
Give evidence from Quran or Hadith. If there's no clear cut evidence, then use the simple logic and common sense.
Faith, to my mind, is a stiffening process, a sort of mental starch.
Give evidence from Quran or Hadith. If there's no clear cut evidence, then use the simple logic and common sense.
Obviously you need to read the whole post...All the evidence is from Quran and Sunnah.
The reason being is because angels do not make any mistakes in this present world and humans do. In the next life, the day of recompense of deeds, muttaqeen will be better than the angels because they will be rewarded with eternal paradise. The angels will not have this unique reward.
Let me explain further...In the day of Judgement you cannot buy your way to paradise or out of hell-fire, and if you backbite, slander, hit some Muslim in this world then you pay with your good deeds (yamul deen = day of recompense). There is evidence from Sunnah for that statement I just made if you want I can look it up for you. After Allah has either forgiven us for our mistakes and/or we pay others with our good deeds then in after life we become the best of Allah's creation. The angels are the best of Allah's creation in this present world because they make no mistakes and are completely sinless. As Allah said in
Sura An-Nahl:49-50
"And to Allah prostrate all that is the heavens and all that is in the earth, of the living creatures and the angels, and they are not proud. They fear their Lord above them, and they do what they are commanded."
prophet Muhammed(SAW) is a human being and his the best of all Allah's(SW) creation.
Ooohh Nice... I did not think of that. No questions there.
But we are not talking about Prophets/Messengers we are talking about the Angel (vs) Normal Mutaqi.
Whats the point of this whole debate, angels havn't got free will we have, they can't disobey allah, we have a choice to, so them not disobeying allah doesn't make them better then us.
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist
^ thats what i was thinking- angels dont have a free will and they always obey Allah. However humans have a free will and the opportunity to disobey Allah's commands, so if they remain on the straight path and obey Allah then they are better than the angels.
^ thats what i was thinking- angels dont have a free will and they always obey Allah. However humans have a free will and the opportunity to disobey Allah's commands, so if they remain on the straight path and obey Allah then they are better than the angels.
That's right. Only those who follow Allah path are better than angels. But the question is that who knows about Allah's path? Mullahs claim that it's only they who know everthing about Allah's path. On the other hand scientists are doing a lot of research to find what different paths and patterns the forces of nature follow. They're doing a lot of research on social sciences also to find out which is the normal human bahiour or path. Most of their findings are different than those of mullahs. Mullahs always object when they hear about new scientific findings, then later on when the scientific findings are confirmed and become popular in Muslims, then the Mullahs also change their stand and make a U-turn by attempting to prove that those facts were already described in Quran. They not only differ with new findings of the scientists, they differ a lot with each other too. Every mullah claims that his point of view or his interpretation of Quran about Allah's path is 100% correct, and terms every other finding as 100% wrong. There's nothing between these two extremes. Every mullah claims that only his true followers are on the right path of Allah and every other mullah's followers or the scientists are on the wrong path.
Faith, to my mind, is a stiffening process, a sort of mental starch.
If you guys read the whole debate without your assumptions you would really enjoy it. I myself loved the conclusion of the debate and was amazed with what Ibn Taymiyah rahmatuallahi alay said. This is great debate in who is better Human or Angel. Before I heard this I though angels were better creation of Allah. Now I agree with Ibn Taymiyah's point of view.
Iqbal soofi saab....What are you talking about "propoganda forum"?? Your idea of "mullahs" students starting forum is bogus. You just need to chill out. I think your just mad because a mod. deleted your post...don't put your anger out on this forum. I think some you had some bad experiences with the 'mullahs' in your country.
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than angels & jinn
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