B-u-m-p
Are morals derived from religion/God??
If so, I have 2 questions:
1.) How come there are different religions with different moral codes?
2.) How come atheists are moral beings?
Thanks
B-u-m-p
1) Some religions may have codes which were created by the people, other religions may have had moral codes which were distorted because they weren't preserved authentically. We also know that some Messengers of God came with laws which were different in some social aspects to the laws revealed to God's final Messenger, Muhammad (peace be upon him.) The reason for this was because the previous Prophets were sent to their people, so the laws were for that certain time period, and for that specific set of people. So due to these factors - the social aspects may have been different. However - all the Prophets had similar moral codes; i.e. to worship none but God Alone, to shun all false deities (no idols, humans, man-made philosophies etc.) To enjoin family ties, to establish the prayer, to help the needy etc.
God's final Messenger is Muhammad (peace be upon him) who recieved the revelation, and his message would be for all of mankind. There wouldn't be any more prophets after him. So the laws revealed to him would be for all of humanity till the Day of Ressurection.
We sent not a messenger except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom. [Qur'an 14: 4]
"Say (O Muhammad): 'O mankind! ! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided." (Qur'an 7:158)
Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Last of the prophets: and Allah has full knowledge of all things. [Qur'an 33: 40]
2) The Fitrah - Allaah has created us all upon the fitrah [the natural disposition.] Our fitrah is to understand the concept of good and bad, so if someone was to force you to hit someone when you were a child, you would know that it's evil, since Allaah has created you in the state of knowing the difference between good/bad.
However, as time progresses - your fitrah can be altered depending on the society you live in. I.e. In a country where violence is more of the norm, you may be taught that hitting someone is okay. The first time you try to hit someone, you'll have an urge not to hit the person, because your fitrah tells you otherwise. But without divine guidance, you don't have a solid basis to tell you that what you're doing is the wrong thing.
This is why Divine Revelation is required. Divine Revelation is the Guideline, and this fits in with your natural disposition hand in hand. I.e. If someone tells you to hit so and so, you might say NO! They'll ask why? You'll then bring proof from the Divine Guidance;
The Messenger of God (peace be upon him) said:
"A Muslim is the one from whose hands and tongue other Muslims are safe." [Recorded in Tirmidhi]
Now you have a solid basis to tell the person why you won't hit the innocent person, and they can't object if they accept God and His Messenger. You have a foundation to stand on, and your morals are equal since you have something you can agree on together without dispute. And Allaah Almighty knows best.
Whereas those who reject the Messenger, and reject God - then they have to question where the limits are? Who sets these limits? What is your true purpose without a true guidance?
format_quote Originally Posted by Ruggedtouch
Yeah, i know.
The vast majority of the world rejects your beliefs.
They're in doubt about their own beliefs, whereas we're not, and the praise is for Allaah due to that.
1.8 billion Muslims and the fastest growing religion-- at one point will be the dominant religion insha'Allah.. go ahead fi throw in some stats.format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_SabilillahYeah, i know.
They're in doubt about their own beliefs, whereas we're not, and the praise is for Allaah due to that.
Is this some kind of joke?How come atheists are moral beings
I suppose the ideals of people who "hate our freedom" and the incessant need to import democracy to other nations is indeed a form of insecurity enhanced ever more in gitmo or stripping people nude in Abu Gharib ... I am so glad it is out in the open for all to see.
The greatest mass murder in history is said to have been committed by an atheist - Josef Stalin.Atheists just haven't been convinced of the morality of mass murder / suicide bombings.
format_quote Originally Posted by Ruggedtouch
No, its those who are confident in their faith to actually put it forward to others to show how it is the truth. Otherwise they wouldn't be confident enough to actually spread it to others.
I seriosly don't want to argue with you, because its not part of Islaam to have bad manners. So i won't mention where the irony is in your post.
It's those whose religious belief is tenuous who are the ones who compell others to believe as they do under threat of death.
The Praise is for Allaah that that's not a part of Islaam.
Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. [Qur'an 2: 256]
format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia1.8 billion Muslims and the fastest growing religion-- at one point will be the dominant religion insha'Allah.. go ahead fi throw in some stats.
I cant find that specifically, but i found this:
Listen What the World says about the Fastest Growing Religion
"Islam is the fastest-growing religion in America, a guide and pillar of stability for many of our people..." [HILLARY RODMAN CLINTON, Los Angeles Times, May 31, 1996, p.3]
Already more than a billion-people strong, Islam is the world’s fastest-growing religion. [ABCNEWS, Abcnews.com]
"Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the country." [NEWSDAY, March 7, 1989, p.4]
"Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the United States..." [NEW YORK TIMES, Feb 21, 1989, p.1]
Moslems are the world's fastest-growing group..." [USA TODAY, The Population Reference bureau, Feb. 17,
1989, p.4A ]
"Muhummed is the most successful of all Prophets and religious personalities. " [Encyclopedia Britannica]
"There are more Muslims in North America then Jews Now." [Dan Rathers, CBSNEWS]
"Islam is the fastest growing religion in North America." [TIMES MAGAZINE]
"Islam continues to grow in America, and no one can doubt that!" [CNN, December 15, 1995]
"The Religion of Islam is growing faster than any other religion in the world." [MIKE WALLACE, 60 MINUTES]
"Five to 6 million strong, Muslims in America already outnumber Presbyterians, Episcopalians, and Mormons, and they are more numerous than Quakers, Unitarians, Seventh-day Adventists, Mennonites, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Christian Scientists, combined. Many demographers say Islam has overtaken Judaism as the country's second-most commonly practiced religion; others say it is in the passing lane." [JOHAN BLANK,
US NEWS (7/20/98)]
"In fact, Religion experts say Islam is the second-largest religion in the United States... Islam has 5 million to 6 million members, followed by Judaism, with approximately 4.5 million..... And Islam is believed to be fastest-growing religion in the country, with half its expansion coming from new immigrants and the other half from conversions." [By ELSA C. ARNETT Knight-Ridder News Service]
http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...ion-earth.htmlAlso view:
Fastest Growing Religion?
indeed Atheist philosophy is more familiar with mass extinction than any unrest created sectarian violence..Which wouldn't have escalated to this point anyhow had the true axis of evil had not gone on to imperialize half the world and rob it of their natural resources. I think the world has seen its most profound ethnic cleaning under Atheism and communism -- if not actually Christianity a la mode of the (crusades) & the ( holocaust) --
Thanks akhi-- as so it was decreed by the divine--format_quote Originally Posted by Fi_Sabilillah
Morals are products of law. This can be God's Laws, or it can be secular law. Usually the two overlap without meaning to in many ways. Meaning the laws against murder, theft, etc. An atheist can be just as moral as a religious person when it comes to following secular law, if not more or vice versa.
format_quote Originally Posted by Ruggedtouch
Nah
Allaah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said:
“This community of mine is a community blessed with mercy. It is not punished in the Hereafter. Instead, it is punished in this world with strife, instability, and bloodshed.” [Musnad Ahmad, Sunan Abî Dâwûd, and Mustadrak al-Hâkim] It is an authentic hadîth. It indicates that Allah has shown mercy on the Islamic community and that its punishment will be in this world instead of the Hereafter.
middle east is home to only 20% of the worlds Muslims--- nonetheless was the cradle of civilization... desperation really comes with thievery-- people who think they can go colonizing other nations under the guise of democracy... good will toward man, only to rape, murder, imprison-- build bases and steal oil and spread propaganda which is easily picked up by the small minded.... And there is no shortage!
Last edited by جوري; 05-10-2007 at 01:19 AM. Reason: typo
I'm not sure they are all that different, are they? They all contain much the same things. If you observed the moral behaviour (without any other religious observation, ritual, etc) I doubt you could tell a devout muslim from a devout Christian or a devout Buddhist. The same rules are there; don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, avoid improper sexual conduct and so on. All of the things observation of which helps society to function smoothly. Which is, of course, why morals evolved in the first place among people of every religion and no religion and, to answer your second question, why atheists are every bit as 'moral' as theists.format_quote Originally Posted by Philosopher
There is, sadly, no shortage of exceptions among either group.
Last edited by Trumble; 05-09-2007 at 09:22 PM. Reason: typo
How many wars did Mohammed lead?format_quote Originally Posted by Talha777
between Stalin and Mao Xedong.. you'd think the Atheists would shut their trap-- instead of kibitzing!format_quote Originally Posted by Talha777
Last edited by جوري; 05-10-2007 at 01:22 AM. Reason: two typos (gasp)
Of course atheists have morality. How else would God protect us from those who deny His existence.
Not forgetting Mao Zedong..Talha777: The greatest mass murder in history is said to have been committed by an atheist - Josef Stalin.RuggedTouch: Atheists just haven't been convinced of the morality of mass murder / suicide bombings.
Atheism and communism are two different things.
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