Just more evidence that our Sisters are, indeed, protected. This is not in relation to covering, but rather the commands to the brothers and how they act/deal with Women.
I'm not sure the sick nature of some of todays films point to some major "collapse" in society, at least no more than at any other time in history. Take the writings of Marquis De Sade back in the 1700's. There was a segment of French society that simply ate this stuff up. The same is true today. I also don't see how this ties into women being "liberated" or not. Would the movie be acceptable if it showed a man being tortured with a flame torch? This is just an example of how sick some people in the world are, regardless of geography or the majority faith of the nation.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
The way to truly liberate women is honor killings.
Want to protect them? Lock them in the house and paint the windows black.
Given a choice, some will make good choices, some will make bad choices.
The only solution to people making bad choices is to eliminate choice.
No thank you.
In what sense did you mean that? No really, enlighten me. When you don't give proper recommendation, how would you expect people to make the right choices? Who's talking about honor killings? Besides you of course.
Last edited by Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн; 05-23-2007 at 04:17 AM.
Reason: added more
*Without Allah, without Islam, life would be meaningless. If I've ever learned patience, it's because of this. Alhamdulillah...*
Wait, what?
What has freedom of speech and expression in the media got to do with women's rights in the west? lol.
Gore films repeatedly try to push the boundries, the limits of society's acceptance. I love a good horror film and gore, but I personaly draw the line at rape scenes - they disturb me far too much. But, you know, that's just me. Nobody's forcing anyone to go see these films, it's everyone's personal choice.
Directors using the "damsel in distress" angle is nothing new - it dates back to the very beginning of film, in fact. This is just the new extreme. And while I'm not too fond of the notion of a film devoted entirely to depicting women in suffering, I certainly don't think it affects my rights.
Nice poem here by a saudi woman, including some stuff on womens rights.
Must sound better in Arabic.
In February, 2007, reformist Saudi author Wajeha Al-Huwaidar published a satirical poem titled "When" that lamented conditions in the Arab world; now she has written a sequel, which was posted on the Arab liberal website Aafaq on May 13, 2007.
The following are excerpts:
"When your neighbor throws trash in your path, and calls you foul names, and urges his sons to accost your sons at school and in the street, and incites the men and women of the neighborhood against you so that they will harass your wife and daughters - and the reason [for all this] is that you are from a minority that doesn't belong - this is ugly racism that has taken root. And you can be sure that it is not a Western conspiracy that has been hatched against you; this is a product of your own country.
"When you feel that whenever you leave your house there are hidden eyes that spy on you, follow your movements, watch you with suspicion and misgiving, and make you return quickly back from where you came - this is part of the culture of fear. And without the least bit of doubt, it is not a Western conspiracy that was hatched against you; this is a product of your own country.
"When your young children come home from school and tell you that they learned that day that the 'others' are despicable people who do not deserve any respect, acceptance, or appreciation, and that God commanded them to hate ['the others'] and to fight them, at all times and everywhere - this is an institutionalized plan for disseminating hatred. Don't worry, this is not a Western conspiracy against you; this is a product of your own country…
"When you are banned from many of the opportunities given to others, like studying, working, and the basics of living in dignity, just because you do not make hypocritical displays [of loyalty] to corrupt high officials and do not flatter the clerics who enjoy the favors of the regime - beware not to think that this is a Western conspiracy that has been hatched against you; this is a product of your own country.
"When all the years of your life are stolen from you… and your vitality, your mind, and your soul are wrested away, all in the name of religion, customs, traditions… and an outmoded heritage - and you know that this has usurped your right to life - don't weep and don't cry, and don't imagine that this is a Western conspiracy against you; these are actions and behaviors that are a product of your own country.
"When everything around you, around the clock, reminds you that you are a worthless human being in the view of the political or religious powers, and that you and the soil on which your shoe treads are equals, for the sole reason of your being the citizen of an Arab land - this is the height of arbitrary [rule]. But know that this is not a Western conspiracy that has been hatched against you; this is a product of your own country…
"When the number of those wanting to emigrate is twice that of those who wish to live in the country, and everyone [who can] takes up their belongings and leaves, and there is no place for intellectuals, artists, or even for regular people - you should be very sad, because this is premeditated debasement and deportation. But please don't think that this is a Western conspiracy that has been hatched against you; this is a product of your own country.
"When your diligent university-student daughter informs you that she received a one-week suspension from her studies because she did not fully cover her face when leaving campus - something the country's laws [consider] disgraceful - whereas in the palaces of high and influential officials there are evenings of debauchery, where *****s and harlots are brought in from all over - well, this is 'mastery of one's soul' and 'breaking [the desires of] one's soul.' This is not a Western conspiracy that has been hatched against you; this is a product of your own country…
"When everything you hear, see, feel, and perceive tells you that women were created to be a receptacle for you, and that [a woman] is an incubator for your pure offspring, and that you can replace this receptacle whenever you want, and do with her whatever you see fit, and when your friends add a harem of miserable women to their lairs, and think of them as their very private possessions, like hens in a coop or ewes in a pen… don't be surprised. Know that this is not a Western conspiracy that has been hatched against you; this is a product of your own country.
"When you see poverty and hunger gaining ground… and the ruler tells the people to tighten their belts and to not waste electricity and water, claiming that the country has been going through an economic crisis for [several] long decades, and then all of a sudden you hear that the venerable ruler, may God keep him, has bought an island, with all its palaces, in the Indian Ocean, for millions of dollars - this is theft of the country's resources. But don't take it hard, please, don't take it hard. Just believe that this is not a Western conspiracy that has been hatched against you; this is a product of your own country.
"When you, an adult in your full senses, have your pen intentionally taken away from you, and are treated as a person not responsible [for their own actions], and you are not allowed to be under your own charge, and everyone becomes your legal guardian, and it is they who determine your political, religious, and national morals - this is abasement of a human… And this is not a Western conspiracy that has been hatched against you; this is a product of your own country.
"When the political and religious establishment ignites your feelings over things that take place beyond the borders of your country, and urges you to demonstrate your rage… over what is going on here or there, and you hold up signs, and organize marches, and walk in long demonstrations throughout the day and the night, and you forcefully condemn and criticize - and then after the event ends, you feel tired and sluggish, and you go home to your sagging, broken-down house, and there isn't a slice of bread there to give to your young children - but you don't have the right to go out and protest, or march, or even to write a two-line petition - this is the worst kind of iniquity. And this is not a Western conspiracy that has been hatched against you; this is a product of your own country…"
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
Watching Grindhouse, I felt fundamentally depressed: who would seek out this experience as entertainment? What is more depressing is the fact that such films seem to be part of a wider trend towards the mainstream depiction of women as highly sexualised bait and prey: meat, as Roth had it. Over the past year, for example, we've seen mainstream fashion images that have shown highly made up, designer-clad women being brutalised (Italian Vogue), apparently about to be gang raped (a Dolce and Gabbana ad), and shot, stabbed and electrocuted (America's Next Top Model). On shows such as CSI and its many spin-offs and imitators, the victims of each weekly murder case are, disproportionately, nubile young women. Lisa de Moraes of the Washington Post came up with an apt shorthand for such series in 2005, dubbing that year's programmes the "season of Die, Women, Die!".
Of course, watching one of these films won't turn a sane, decent individual into a killer or a torturer, but you have to wonder what effect this widespread meshing of sexuality and graphic violence will have on the young men at whom they are primarily aimed. The clear logic behind all these films, TV shows and images appears to be that if a young, good-looking, barely-clad woman is sexy while alive, she's even sexier when she's being tortured, or when she's a bloody corpse.
Regardless of what you say, or what your personal beliefs are, movies play a huge role in societies views and perspective.
If you don't believe me, I suggest you start researching.
Because it's really all about shutting the reality of the Middle East off from us. It's to prevent the British and American people from questioning the immoral and cruel and internationally illegal occupation of Muslim lands. And in the Land of the Free, this systematic censorship of Middle East reality continues even in the country's schools. Now the principal of a Connecticut high school has banned a play by pupils, based on the letters and words of US soldiers serving in Iraq. Entitled Voices in Conflict, Natalie Kropf, Seth Koproski, James Presson and their fellow pupils at Wilton High School compiled the reflections of soldiers and others - including a 19-year-old Wilton High graduate killed in Iraq - to create their own play. To no avail. The drama might hurt those "who had lost loved ones or who had individuals serving as we speak", proclaimed Timothy Canty, Wilton High's principal. And - my favourite line - Canty believed there was not enough rehearsal time to ensure the play would provide "a legitimate instructional experience for our students".
We really have to change the law so that Women have half the validity of men. After all they are deficient in religion and the main occupiers of hell. Why the heck are we letting them run buisnesses and drive cars. Next they'll be prime minister of the country!
Lets get those human rights standards down folks!
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
Nice poem here by a saudi woman, including some stuff on womens rights.
Must sound better in Arabic.
In February, 2007, reformist Saudi author Wajeha Al-Huwaidar published a satirical poem titled "When" that lamented conditions in the Arab world; now she has written a sequel, which was posted on the Arab liberal website Aafaq on May 13, 2007.
The following are excerpts:
"..."[/B]
Don't worry, these are Islamic forums, not Saudi/Arab forums. Islam didn't teach men to use women as 'receptacles' and in fact the things this women has written about are hints of practises from pagan times - the exact kind of crap Islam liberated women from.
For example, the ruler thing. Saudi doesn't follow an Islamic system. The concept of an "Islamic Royal Family" is a oxymoron. The Prophet was offered mountains of Gold and extensive areas of land, yet he refused and continued to go days without food.
We really have to change the law so that Women have half the validity of men. After all they are deficient in religion and the main occupiers of hell. Why the heck are we letting them run buisnesses and drive cars. Next they'll be prime minister of the country!
Lets get those human rights standards down folks!
Haha. Yeah, the system right now supports them heaps man.
Women that work part-time jobs have the same workload as men working FULL-TIME. God, I bet they just love the rush of all that work, don't they?
In addition to their family responsibilities, other factors also tend to make women more vulnerable to work-related stress. These include:
* lower levels of control in their jobs, since the great majority of women still tend to occupy less senior jobs than men;
* the higher proportion of women who work in precarious forms of employment;
* the proliferation of women in high-stress occupations, such as nursing, teaching and work with visual display units (VDUs); and
* the prejudice and discrimination suffered by many women who are in more senior positions, such as managerial jobs, both as a result of organizational and corporate policy and from their colleagues at work.
Congratulations.
I also love how research shows that by the age of 30+ most women are sick of work and feel the need, rather, to have babies tehe. It's just a natural thing man, stop using them to do crap men should be doing.
Yes, beespreeteam, I read the article. And it's nothing I havn't heard before.
The ills of society have been blamed on everything from the effect comic books has on the young, to rock n' roll, to video games, to, now, films and movies.
As was said in the article you provided for us, no sane person who wouldn't otherwise already have done so, will go on a murderous rampage against women after seeing this movie.
"Regardless of what you say, or what your personal beliefs are, movies play a huge role in societies views and perspective."
Mm, it's true that the media's purpose is not only to entertain, but to inform and influence. But if you honestly think that "torture porn" is in any way indicative of the way women are treated in the west, or if you think that it will suddenly turn western men into raping, woman-murdering psychos, I'd like to see what proof you have to back these beliefs.
We really have to change the law so that Women have half the validity of men. After all they are deficient in religion and the main occupiers of hell. Why the heck are we letting them run buisnesses and drive cars. Next they'll be prime minister of the country!
Lets get those human rights standards down folks!
Funny how that has NOTHING to do with Islam. DOH, I think u made a booboo.
I think I'd choose being covered head to toe rather than succumbing to the so called morals and rights of Western society. At least I dont need to expose myself or beautify myself for the sake of people as no one has the right to lay their eyes on me for free
Last edited by Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн; 05-23-2007 at 05:19 AM.
*Without Allah, without Islam, life would be meaningless. If I've ever learned patience, it's because of this. Alhamdulillah...*
Yes, beespreeteam, I read the article. And it's nothing I havn't heard before.
The ills of society have been blamed on everything from the effect comic books has on the young, to rock n' roll, to video games, to, now, films and movies.
As was said in the article you provided for us, no sane person who wouldn't otherwise already have done so, will go on a murderous rampage against women after seeing this movie.
"Regardless of what you say, or what your personal beliefs are, movies play a huge role in societies views and perspective."
Mm, it's true that the media's purpose is not only to entertain, but to inform and influence. But if you honestly think that "torture porn" is in any way indicative of the way women are treated in the west, or if you think that it will suddenly turn western men into raping, woman-murdering psychos, I'd like to see what proof you have to back these beliefs.
Rofl. Dude, I was born in a Western country and I've lived here my entire life. I think the stats speak for themselves in regards to rape - last I heard it was like once every 3 minutes, in America alone, a woman is sexually assaulted. And half aren't even reported or something. I think that's far too much. Rape statistics are unreliable.
Having said this, something like 90% of rape victims are female. To treat women, as quoted above, is probably not the best thing. Like the person who wrote the article, I ponder the effects it has on the people watching it. Also, as you stated, media does play a role in informing and influencing, which would explain why many Americans don't know jack all about the world :cuteface:.
Also, I posted a link to Women in the workforce and their unfair treatment already.
TBH habibi i do not think they are liberated. I think muslim women are the truly liberated who act in the guidance of Allah.
As my knowledge of Islam has grown i find more and more disgusting what i see out in the streets and am now convinced that the muslim way is the better liberated way.
One example. I have women friends (non-muslim) that are constantly wearing small garments of clothing.
Me: Seriously do you like wearing these so called garments?
Her: If i was honest with you no.
Me: So why do you?
Her: Society tells me too (media etc) and its the only way to attract a man.
Me: aki no it isn't. Do you like men looking at you all the time?
Her: No
Me: How would you dress without societies pressure on you?
Her: Long clothing not revealing anything, tbh that's my true nature.
Me: But we live in a 'free' society that can do what you wants (within the bounds of the law), so why don't you?
Her: I can't. I will not be fashionable.
etc
They are trapped in a cage and they don't know it! The muslim way is the best way.
Do I reaaalllly want to follow a society that took soo darn long to give women their due rights, which is still not there btw, and give up mine that I had even before I was born? Mmmm, lemme think, no thanx! A religion that cares about the person I am, the best I can be in the sight of my Lord and that cares about my integrity tops everything I could ever own .
Last edited by Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн; 05-23-2007 at 08:58 AM.
*Without Allah, without Islam, life would be meaningless. If I've ever learned patience, it's because of this. Alhamdulillah...*
Directors using the "damsel in distress" angle is nothing new - it dates back to the very beginning of film, in fact. This is just the new extreme. And while I'm not too fond of the notion of a film devoted entirely to depicting women in suffering, I certainly don't think it affects my rights.
I tend to agree. It might be more indicative of misogyny on the part of individual directors, rather than an example of a social ill. People go and see 'Grindhouse' not because of the cruelty so much as the butt-kicking heroines which are in vogue at the moment. Actually, butt-kicking heroines have always been in vogue, though not always for the right reasons in what is still a male-dominated culture.
I'm not saying there are no social ills, mind you. Just that perhaps this particular form of fiction is the wrong place to look for it.
Rofl. Dude, I was born in a Western country and I've lived here my entire life. I think the stats speak for themselves in regards to rape - last I heard it was like once every 3 minutes, in America alone, a woman is sexually assaulted. And half aren't even reported or something. I think that's far too much. Rape statistics are unreliable.
Having said this, something like 90% of rape victims are female. To treat women, as quoted above, is probably not the best thing. Like the person who wrote the article, I ponder the effects it has on the people watching it. Also, as you stated, media does play a role in informing and influencing, which would explain why many Americans don't know jack all about the world :cuteface:.
Also, I posted a link to Women in the workforce and their unfair treatment already.
So you say. But pause for a moment to consider the sheer number of people in the US. Over 300 million. So essentially everything is happening in america every 3 minutes. :P
I'm in england, and I'm a woman. And this may shock you, but I've never been raped. Or sexually abused, or beaten. Neither have any of my female friends or relatives, that I know of, at least.
(And yes, I'll agree with you that the majority of Americans are somewhat ignorant of the outside world.)
I'll be the first to admit that while the woman's rights movement in the west has come a long way, it stopped short of complete equality.
Woman are still paid less for the same work as men, and may work more for a variety of reasons.
Still, I am thankful to the feminist movement for giving me the freedom, choice and right to work. I am free to do as I choose, unrestricted by the confines of religious conformity. So yes, I am liberated.
Rofl. Dude, I was born in a Western country and I've lived here my entire life. I think the stats speak for themselves in regards to rape - last I heard it was like once every 3 minutes, in America alone, a woman is sexually assaulted. And half aren't even reported or something. I think that's far too much. Rape statistics are unreliable.
Having said this, something like 90% of rape victims are female. To treat women, as quoted above, is probably not the best thing. Like the person who wrote the article, I ponder the effects it has on the people watching it. Also, as you stated, media does play a role in informing and influencing, which would explain why many Americans don't know jack all about the world :cuteface:.
Also, I posted a link to Women in the workforce and their unfair treatment already.
Dude, you make me laugh. You talk as if muslims are all virgins. I mean Muslim men. They rape as much as other men too, it's just, muslim countries don't like to reveil the stats as it is unislamic.
Please read this, if you don't mind.
Im Always Right,Its Like,When Im Right,Im Right,And When Im Wrong,I Could've Been Right,So Im Still Right,'Cause I Could've Been Wrong!
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Getting entirely fed up with the foolishness
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