I pose these questions to the fellow Muslims and non-Muslims on this forum.
Has Islam played a major role in the development of western civilization? In teaching history, is it imperative to mention Muslim presence in the West? What was Islam's role in shaping the advanced world we live in today?
Please refer to the 10th C. to early 20th C.
"Faisbir sabran jameelan".Therefore endure with a goodly patience (70:05)
Alot of Islamic discoveries pre 13th century (science and medical, legal) were implemented in Western society as we know as today
Fight in the way of God, against those who fight against you, drive them out of the places they have drove you out, for persecution is worse than slaughter. Fight them, until persecution is no more, and Religion is for God. But if they stop, let there be no war.
i am weak in history, but i would say yes.
i think the muslims were an important bridge - they brought much of the older knowledge to the europeans and added to it themselves.
each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
question authority
The Hellenistic era, which was of course pre-Islam, was the first truly "globalized" period in world history. This period had a major impact on the middle east and beyond. I would think that Western culture, meaning mainly Greek and Roman culture, had more of an impact than any other on the world as a whole. The point being, Western civilization pre-dates Islam by a good stretch of time. Now if you are simply referring to modern Western civilization, then I would say Arabs and Persians have obviously had an impact on certain aspects of life in the modern age. Not sure Islam as a religion has impacted Western civilization in any significant way, besides the militant contact beginning in the 9th century. That doesn't take away from Arab and Persian contribution however.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
if we are going to go by impact and a long stretch of time.. then frankly pharonic, babylonian, phoenician, Mesopotamia, Persia, India all have had great contributions to history that very much pre-date the 'Hellenistic period' -- but who is counting I still say Islamic contributions have been the absolute best and Islam predominates those parts mentioned above, it fostered refined and calibrated their contributions.. Enough what Ibn Rushd contributed let alone the rest of the Muslim scholars to a very dark medieval west!
peace!
Last edited by جوري; 10-14-2007 at 09:29 PM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
if we are going to go by impact and a long stretch of time.. then frankly pharonic, babylonian, phoenician, Mesopotamia, Persia, India all have had great contributions to history that very much pre-date the 'Hellenistic period' -- but who is counting I still say Islamic contributions have been the absolute best and Islam predominates those parts mentioned above, it fostered refined and calibrated their contributions.. Enough what Ibn Rushd contributed let alone the rest of the Muslim scholars to a very dark medieval west!
peace!
Okay, what Islamic contributions have been the "absolute best"?
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
Muslims contribution to Europe's history or civilization not only should be noticed but it is noticed. We learn about Arabs and their civilization in primary school and also in secondary school.I think that we shouldnt make it bigger than it was and we also shouldnt make it smaller than it was. The way it is shown now in school (at least in place where i was taught) is the most balanced i think.
This country is dying because of a lack of men, not a lack of programs.
Muslims contribution to Europe's history or civilization not only should be noticed but it is noticed. We learn about Arabs and their civilization in primary school and also in secondary school.I think that we shouldnt make it bigger than it was and we also shouldnt make it smaller than it was. The way it is shown now in school (at least in place where i was taught) is the most balanced i think.
What contributions were you taught about in school?
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
What contributions were you taught about in school?
Well, now you are checking my poor memory .
But seriously, in school in Poland we have about 2 lessons in school year about muslim prophet Muhammed and Arabs. The same amount in primary school as in secondary school as i remember.So as far as i remember we learn that Arabs made some inventions in maths, especially alghebra, in medicine, and in astronomy (forgive me but i dont remember exactly).Since Arabs conquered Spain, they brought there greeks' philosphers books. This is all that i remember.
This country is dying because of a lack of men, not a lack of programs.
I have also made tons of posts about gifts given to Charlagmagne by Harun Ar-Rachid, I have made posts about IBn Rushd, Ibn Sina etc, I don't know if I have not made a post yet about 'Zeryab'. I doubt any of you have even heard of him.. anyhow there were many and too numerous to count for you to take a stab at each and make them an object of ridicule of low rank or importance.. Anyone familiar with history that isn't Daniel pipe or his ilk will attest that volumes of Islamic contributions can't be summed up in a paragraph on some random forum..
peace!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
here is a list of others, you may certainly teach yourself through google.. sometimes google is a substitute for school-- unfortunate for some who write before they read.. but that is what one gets in a poor country like Poland-- subpar folks who think by confabulating publically that they are making well-informed contributions...
Jabir Ibn Haiyan died 803
Mohammad Bin Musa al-Khawarizmi died 840
Yaqub Ibn Ishaq al-Kindi 800
Thabit Ibn Qurra 836
Ali Ibn Rabban al-Tabari 838
Abu Abdullah al-Battani 858
Al-Farghani 860
Mohammad Ibn Zakariya al-Razi 864
Abu al-Nasr al-Farabi 870
Abul Hasan Ali al-Masu'di died 957
Abu al-Qasim al-Zahrawi 936 (see also)
Abul Wafa Muhammad al-Buzjani 940
Abu Ali Hasan Ibn al-Haitham 965
Abu al-Hasan al-Mawardi 972
Abu Raihan al-Biruni 973
Ibn Sina 980 (see also)
Omar al-Khayyam 1044
Abu Hamid al-Ghazali 1058
Abu Marwan Ibn Zuhr 1091
Al-Idrisi 1099
Ibn Rushd 1128
Ibn al-Baitar died 1248
Nasir al-Din al-Tusi 1201
Jalal al-Din Rumi 1207
Ibn al-Nafis 1213
Ibn Khaldun 1332
Ibn Sina - doctor of doctors
El Zahrawi - father of surgery
Ibn Battuta - the great traveller
Caesarean Birth
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Arabic numerals is the most obvious influence that I can think of. I know thats technically Arabic & not "islamic" no more than Fish and Chips is English and not "Church of England", but without arabic numerals, Binary would have been tricky and Computors would have never been developed.
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
Islam wasn't just a religion but a state.. thus anything in the way of advancement in science/art/poetry or whatever else will be considered 'Islamic' under any of the Muslim empires that existed whether under the Abbasids Fatimids, the Umayyads Andalusia or even the Ottomans....That whole divide and conquer attitude and impugning achievements-- you may save as a war tactic for the next set of people your country wishes to monopolize-- we are not buying it here!
cheers!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I was wondering how you would defensively kneejerk that one. Not everything I write is a critisism of the religion..sheesh. I was praising a arabic acheivement and you go all "Dirty kuffar"
Still........ since you insist on feeding me ammo, i'll ask this.
Interesting idea but, does the collapse of these empires and their repression, brutality, corruption and stagnation also count as Islamic...or is it just the achievements? Or was all that the west's fault?
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
The current numbering system came from central India but it was the Arabs who utilised the numbers and the West adopted numbers from the Arabs.
Roman numerals cannot be used to do complex mathematical calculations and so it is the West adopted the Arabic numerals which allowed complex calculations that led to the moon landings.
Note the Arabs had no concept of zero as a number and this was a Western invention.
I was wondering how you would defensively kneejerk that one. Not everything I write is a critisism of the religion..sheesh. I was praising a arabic acheivement and you go all "Dirty kuffar"
Still........ since you insist on feeding me ammo, i'll ask this.
Interesting idea but, does the collapse of these empires and their repression, brutality, corruption and stagnation also count as Islamic...or is it just the achievements? Or was all that the west's fault?
I blame the current state on the last of the ottaman's, and I'd get into that except it won't be interesting, anyone can read about it from proper sources which city states they stripped of an army so that when your homies came colonizing there was no one left to fend them off.. I blame your England for half the ills that befell most of the world from China to India to Hong Kong to the Arabic world even the states though they managed to be rid themselves of you!.. I detest your British isle to a level that I can't possibly describe in words....
I find it delicious you speak of such noble human attributes and diplomacy.. I can only pass it off as reaction formation on your part. Either that or you are looking to tickle us? I suppose by hoping or assuming most of us were born after 1995?
I don't think much of either your praises or criticism... they don't rock my world whether you wish to acknowledge them or not is inconsequential to me... You won't be graded on this I assure you... It is just a man's opinion... men's lot is to rot in the ground so you can see in the scheme of things what is to remain and what will be left behind...
cheers..
Last edited by جوري; 10-15-2007 at 01:21 AM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
yeah, i had heard that, but put it down to anti-muslim propaganda by people who would deny that muslims acheived anything of note.
Any links?
Occupation: The term of control of a territory by foreign military forces: Iraq 2003-2005 Liberation:when something or someone is freed: Operation Telic 2003
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