Something has been bothering me for some time now and I just wanted to get some advice / point of views.
We know that Islaam has emphasised on the fact that the women should better stay in their house and only get out in case of necessity. Though I don't deny that we should give access to knowledge to the sisters, the question remains if they should be working. Some may say, as long as there is no free mixing, but we all know that many a times, there would be some level of unavoidable free-mixing.
In my area, alhamdulillah there is a group of brothers now promoting true Islamic stuffs based on the pathways of the Salaf us Saalih and I have learnt loads from them. But since I work, they tend to look down upon sisters like me though we have extended our help to them (from a distance) to help them in their Da'wah. Maybe it may not be a problem in the West but those who have studied in Universities in the Arab world do have this mentality, at least in my locality.
So what is bothering me is that should women work (even under necessity) in a segregated way or as it is mentioned in the Qur'aan, their home is better for them? And most importantly, what about their income, is it Halaal, if not are their deeds rendered vain? I just need some true Islamic point of views irrespective of cultural influence, environment etc. I really want to know the universal point of view in Islaam....
sister, if you live your life based on what other people think of you, view you or want for you, you are bound to live a very miserable life.
I'd like to know how chivalrous some of those judgmental brothers will be when a sister is orphaned and has no support, when a sister is widowed and has no source of support, or when they themselves can't provide for their home and need an extra source of income to make ends meet?
Don't think it can't happen because it can and it has. I think you need to reconcile those feelings by doing some reflecting not by asking people what you should do.
Talab al3ilm fareeda, and Muslim women in the time of the prophet were very pro-active, they didn't rot away at home. They taught men, they fought in wars and attended to the wounded, they owned their own busniesses.
In your mind you need to work out what 'free mixing' is.. is it idle talk and cute laughs or is it doing your job as would please Allah? once you realize that what people think should make any difference at all in your life and it is your neya and how Allah views you, can you make the right decision and move on with your life..
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
In fact, I'm not based on their judgements to build mine but anytime in their Da'wah based on the Quraan and the Haditth, you will hear about the most honourable place for the woman is at home. And this is a fact we cannot deny. So the more I learn from various sources on authentic materials, the more I'm more inclined to accept that in fact I should not be working (Alhamdulillah I'm not a hardship case) but I've done my Masters, so I just feel it's the process to join the working place.
But I'm pondering about the future... So I know it may not pose a problem for those residing in the West as long as it is a decent job (what I meant by free-mixing entails all of its meaning in fact: working with male colleagues, dealing with the public, and to the extreme I would say joking, etc.)
The question remains: If the place of the woman is better at home, then is she not breaching Allaah's commandments by doing the contrary and at the end, is it Halaal and will her deeds be accepted? That's my point.
For the woman freedom she should work. Otherwise the man nature make him to be with his nose up, something like "how good i am" which is not good in long term relations.
For the woman freedom she should work. Otherwise the man nature make him to be with his nose up, something like "how good i am" which is not good in long term relations.
working out of spite of how a man reacts isnt worth it.
Working out of necessaty to provide is inshaAllaah permitted.
Marrying a man and raising a family is best.
Allah knows best
Assalamu Alaikum
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My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
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How about implementing your skills, knowledge and talents in setting up a business, service or something that you can provide to help your sisters in islam?
Work for the cause of allah swt and islam and your fellow sisters in islam --- there are sooo many services us sisters need but have no one skilled that is also a sister we can turn too.
We need all sorts of areas covered by sisters who have studied worked or can afford to help others --- so instead of working in environments not suitable for u, ur deen and ur eman why dont u work for and with sisters in islam who need you ?
I think that it is important for a women to have some sort of income of her own..first because it is true.SOME MEN..let the face it, use the fact that they support there wives as an excuse to treat their wives poorly...how many times have people in every religion heard things like.."as long as I am paying the bills and supporting you, you will do as I say"..but more importantly..a women never knows what the future brings..her husband could become injured and unable to work..or god forbid killed..or he might turn out not to be the man you thought he was...a women needs to be able to take care of herself..It is a struggle because you do not want to leave your family to work...but the poorest people in the world are mothers with children and no skills/jobs....make sure yoou never fall into this category for your sake and the sake of your children..some reading this might be blessed in perfect marriages where your husband treats you well and pays all the bills...but what would happen if he became injured and couldnt work anymore?????
From a different perspective, I believe the world has changed so much that it becomes almost out of the question for all women to simply stay at home and not work. I don't support that line of reasoning in the first place, but that is a different topic. There are many, many situations where a woman will have no choice but to support herself or her family. I realize some men are threatened by this, but a real woman isn't going to stay at home and watch as her family starves to death or goes without basic necessities.
"Imagination was given to man to compensate him for what he is not, and a sense of humor was provided to console him for what he is."
a while ago, there was a Muslim sister here who wanted to go into ophthalmology, well everyone got into how erotic it would be gazing into people's eyes.. saddest part is that people seek help when they are sick, they don't go to seduce their doctor, or their doctor in turn to seduce them, welll at the end she was convinced she should go into teaching, and insha'Allah I wish her the very best..
my question is, who now to treat the Muslim women who don't want to go to a male doctor, when there is a shortage of the sort of doctors they seek?
Do Muslim women not get hordeolums? do they not get cataract, do they not get neovascularities, do they not get glaucoma, do they not get chalazion, do they not get pterygium, do they not get orbital Cellulitis etc etc etc.. this is in fact what she would have been looking at daily and frankly I see nothing erotic there!
The way it appeared to me is that a Muslim woman can only give birth, and working muslim woman can only go into midwifery? .. we'll I'd hate to point out the obvious, but Muslim women are plagued by all the same things that afflict the rest of the population. If they will restrict themselves in careers, and diseases, then I do hope they learn to be stoics, or at least when the time comes how to be excellent hypocrites, because a Muslim women I personally know has just gotten a 10cm mass resection from her bowels, through a colonoscopy which was performed by a hindu male doctor and diagnosed by an American pathologist. Neither Muslim nor women, as I have personally looked at her report.
I am truly saddened by the bankruptcy of some men who can't reconcile their own failures in life so in turn go on gioving speeches and dirty looks to the so-called weaker sex, instead of rising to the occasion and showing us what they can do. I am only too accustomed to seeing some of my sisters cave in under pressure, give up a lucrative career in engineering or pharmacology to marry a guy who is selling falafel, because everyone thinks that is what she should do.
All I can say is 7asbona Allah wa'ni3ma alwakeel and again I remind people that talab al3ilm fareeda i.e seeking knowledge is an obligation on EVERY MUSLIM, seeking it to you can render a service to humanity not to you can hang it on the wall!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
no ones stopping women from working or getting educated, we just dont like it when they are constantly in partially secluded contact with the opposite gender.
if you want to blame us for that then by all means
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My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
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There are some careers that women can do better than a man does. Woman need to be encouraged to enter into those careers.
Some woman need to work out of necessity, they need to be supported in their quest and required development of skills to be able to engage in construtive beneficial halal employment.
Some women have a great gift to share with humanity in the form of a specific career, they also need to be supported and encourged to share the gift Allaah(swt) has given them.
The only time I feel a woman needs to be discourged from working is if her only reason for working is to seek personal pleasure and avoid family responsibilities.
no ones stopping women from working or getting educated, we just dont like it when they are constantly in partially secluded contact with the opposite gender.
if you want to blame us for that then by all means
I blame men for nothing, the irony is when there is a shortage of workers they go on importing them from abroad, and then sentence them to lashes because they are unfamiliar with our customs and then complain how Islam is being portrayed in a negative way, when such an incident makes the news...
fact is you want them to be secluded, which is honorable, but you end up working side by side the kuffar women instead-- in that case you have guarded the women but have you guarded yourselves?
It is a double edged sword, but that is the reality of things!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
fact is you want them to be secluded, which is honorable, but you end up working side by side the kuffar women instead-- in that case you have guarded the women but have you guarded yourselves?
It is a double edged sword, but that is the reality of things!
do you think its the same if a man works besides female colleagues and if a woman works beside male colleagues?
to you, is this the same?!
im asking genuinely...
will you be jelous if your husband has to work with female colleagues and he keeps it really formal?!?!
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My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
do you think its the same if a man works besides female colleagues and if a woman works beside male colleagues?
to you, is this the same?!
im asking genuinely...
will you be jelous if your husband has to work with female colleagues and he keeps it really formal?!?!
it depends on the nature of the work akhi.. I was to be wed to someone who was a gynecologist, he passed away but that is not the point, point is I don't think there is any more contact with female than that, and no I wasn't jealous, It is not an emotion I possess wal'7mdlilah and also because I know exactly what medicine entails, it isn't a brothel, all you are concerned with is the welfare of people who entrusted their lives to you... And I am sure that is the way it is in other careers, be it teaching of pharmacy or engineering or computers or whatever.. you have projects to do and insha'Allah you want to do them well!
I think people have a romanticized idea about work?? people standing by the water fountain flirting? I don't know what goes into people's head when they envision work for women, but the work that I do is taxing, it is challenging and insha'Allah rewarding.. and with any luck on the day of judgement I can stand and be at peace that I have helped my fellow man while on earth!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
by the way akhi IbnAbdulHakim.. I have so much respect for you probably beyond what you can imagine, that I don't want to go down this path with you.. NOT WITH YOU.. we can simply agree that we have two different views on the status of women in Islam and how it all fits in, in the greater scheme of things..
It pains me to listen to a lecture by some sheikh who speaks of how women are the greatest fitnah left for men, and yet fails to mention that the last sermon given by the prophet SWS in it a request that the men honor the women.
People simply can't take the parts of religion that they need to assert a point and ignore the rest.. because Islam is a complete way of life...
I don't know if you speak Arabic but this hadith has always been close to my heart and I think needs some practical application..
There are some careers that women can do better than a man does. Woman need to be encouraged to enter into those careers.
Some woman need to work out of necessity, they need to be supported in their quest and required development of skills to be able to engage in constructive beneficial halal employment.
Some women have a great gift to share with humanity in the form of a specific career, they also need to be supported and encouraged to share the gift Allaah(swt) has given them.
The only time I feel a woman needs to be discouraged from working is if her only reason for working is to seek personal pleasure and avoid family responsibilities.
Just my view Astragfirullah
I think the above points made by the bro are good to go by rather then taking one side or the other on this topic.
Firstly, we do need sisters out there working. We need them so sisters don't have to go to a male doctor or gynocologist, so sisters don't have to go to a male professor, male salon, male this or that. Also, we need sisters in out there to help the ummah. We need marriage counselors, doctors, educators, social workers, among others. We need them in areas where they can help the ummah with their work.
Secondly, we don't need sisters out there in fields that are male dominated nor fields that really don't help the ummah much or has much impact on it. We don't need sisters running for journalism, engineering, and other such fields. These fields can be handled by men without a woman's presence and they don't have any direct impact on the ummah per se.
Thirdly, it is not for everyone nor does everyone want to do this. It's good to be educated but working isn't for everyone. Some sisters can't handle the work environment and fitnah there maybe too great for them, while others don't want to work but rather enjoy a carefree life at home and offer her services to the community in anyway she can.
Beware the workplace! It could be hazardous to your marriage. Those wonderful friendships that make going to the office such fun can turn into a very romantic "emotional affair" when three elements are present--and not one of them is sex, Baltimore psychologist and marital researcher Shirley P. Glass told Gannett News Service.
The signs of an emotional affair are:
Emotional Intimacy
When you share more about who you are--your hopes and dreams, frustrations and failures--with the other person than you do with your spouse, you are emotionally intimate.
Secrecy and Deception
Are you telling your spouse you're meeting that wonderful colleague for lunch in the cafeteria every day? Lying reduces intimacy in a marriage.
Sexual Chemistry
If there is sexual chemistry between you, then at the very least there is an unacknowledged sexual attraction--even if you never act on it.
Gannett News Service reporter Karen S. Peterson warns there's a crisis of infidelity brewing in the cubicles of America's offices. For the most part, the people who are involved are good folks in good marriages. They aren't thrill seekers. But long hours working together and the bond of close friendship have created temptations.
"The new infidelity is between people who unwittingly form deep, passionate connections before realizing that they've crossed the line from platonic friendship into romantic love," marital counselor Shirley Glass told Gannett. "Sometimes the greatest betrayals happen without touching. Infidelity is any emotional or sexual intimacy that violates trust." Glass is the author of the just-published book, "Not 'Just Friends': Protect Your Relationship from Infidelity and Heal the Trauma of Betrayal."
But...an affair without sex? Glass insists it's possible. "This is the essence of the new crisis of infidelity: Friendships, work relationships, and Internet liaisons have become the latest threat to marriages," she explained to Gannett. A classic example of emotional infidelity is an affair in an Internet chat room.
This is hitting home to a lot of couples. Based on the 350 couples who have sought her help, about two-thirds of them had one or both partners involved in either a sexual or emotional affair. And the workplace is where it all begins: Sixty-two percent of the unfaithful men and 46 percent of the unfaithful women met their illicit partner through work, reports Gannett.
Why do we stray? Because we can. There is attraction. There is proximity. There is opportunity.
If you wonder whether or not you're part of an emotional affair, ask yourself this question: Would you be comfortable if your spouse could hear your conversations with your new friend or could view a videotape of your meetings? The answer pretty much says it all.
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Last edited by islamirama; 11-29-2007 at 08:15 PM.
by the way akhi IbnAbdulHakim.. I have so much respect for you probably beyond what you can imagine, that I don't want to go down this path with you.. NOT WITH YOU.. we can simply agree that we have two different views on the status of women in Islam and how it all fits in, in the greater scheme of things..
It pains me to listen to a lecture by some sheikh who speaks of how women are the greatest fitnah left for men, and yet fails to mention that the last sermon given by the prophet SWS in it a request that the men honor the women.
People simply can't take the parts of religion that they need to assert a point and ignore the rest.. because Islam is a complete way of life...
I don't know if you speak Arabic but this hadith has always been close to my heart and I think needs some practical application..
subhanAllaah, jizakAllaahu khair, i have little knowledge on islaam and im always worried about having the wrong opinion... but mashaAllaah i also have a lot of respect for you and will inshaAllaah take what you said into due consideration.
la adree, i never objected at a woman working rather its the idea of the perverted minds of the west mingling with my muslim sisters which had me feeling slightly hesitant, i think women working is a great thing as we can see from the greatest examples... khadija radhiallahu anha.
again i have little knowledge on it and i would personally feel uncomfortable if, whilst living in the west and understanding the minds of these people that i know my wife to be working with them.
But i'll leave it here, jizakAllaahu khair for being so understanding, and forgive me if i have said anything wrong inshaAllaah.
Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullaahi wa Barakatuh
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My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
subhanAllaah, jizakAllaahu khair, i have little knowledge on islaam and im always worried about having the wrong opinion... but mashaAllaah i also have a lot of respect for you and will inshaAllaah take what you said into due consideration.
la adree, i never objected at a woman working rather its the idea of the perverted minds of the west mingling with my muslim sisters which had me feeling slightly hesitant, i think women working is a great thing as we can see from the greatest examples... khadija radhiallahu anha.
again i have little knowledge on it and i would personally feel uncomfortable if, whilst living in the west and understanding the minds of these people that i know my wife to be working with them.
But i'll leave it here, jizakAllaahu khair for being so understanding, and forgive me if i have said anything wrong inshaAllaah.
Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullaahi wa Barakatuh
Jazaka Allah khyran.. I too have very little knowledge on Islam and I come here to learn along with everyone else.. so do forgive my vehemence, I can be quite opinionated at times
I can understand and sympathize with your discomfort, and at the same time feel intense disappointment that services that could be granted me by Muslims women I now have to seek from non-muslims, although I must admit al7mdlilah it is not often the case but a miniority of Muslims choose to keep their knowledge to themselves.
one time and I know this is a digression, but a man was working so hard that his hands were rough and dry, the prophet SWS held up his hands and said 'hazhi yeden yo7iboha Allah' This hand is loved by God, because of his dedication and I guess my intent and feeling is that everyone should bring that sort of commitment and love for their work insha'Allah and grant a service to their fellow man..
If I have upset anyone here pls forgive me, I guess we'll all have to pay for our sins one day but I pray that I enter my grave with shahada on my lips and content in heart that I lived my life serving people, and may Allah swt accept it from me insha'Allah!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Angelzz, thanks for your advice, but I’m more versed in scientific research work so my skills would not be of great use to the general Muslim sisters, especially this sector is not well developed in my area.
The only thing I can do is using our plurality of language to help in the Da’wah activities, organising programmes for the youth etc.
Yes Chosen, I understand from others’ point of view that women should work in genuine cases, especially where we no longer live in a society where the Bait-Ul-Maal would be of help. So access to education should not be restricted.
About the ophthalmology issue, I find it surprising this line of reasoning. That is the extreme. Sure sister, knowledge should be sought as the Sahabiyyah themselves were very prominent ladies in their era and they excelled in many fields like poetry, genealogy, etc. It is true that the problem of free-mixing concerns both sexes. I’m amazed (and it’s good PurestAmbrosia raised this issue), why you will never find a Da’i (preacher): let the men avoid places of free-mixing during their work place, like you rightly said in the company of kuffaar women – with all the attractive attires. I can also say: Why wouldn’t the ladies be jealous about it?
Entre-nous, PurestAmbrosia combien d’hommes reconnus comme des musulmans honnêtes ont des relations extra-maritales avec leurs secretaires ou collègues Kuffaar, sans que leurs épouses n’en sachent rien. J’en connais beaucoup malheureusement, même ceux dits pratiquants ne font pas d’exception. J’apprécie beaucoup votre raisonnement.
So let’s recap: I’m not against women working in case of necessity but there are many also who just take it a natural process. I expected at least some Islamic reference to understand better this issue. So, my problem is not yet solved as I said I don’t work out of necessity but I’m concerned about my future.
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and frankly I see nothing erotic there!
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