are christians Kafroon ?

format_quote Originally Posted by glo

But I have love and respect for my Christian brothers and sisters too ... and I happen to share their beliefs.

I see much in people from other faiths and none which I like, respect or even admire - but my religion is dictated by what I believe about God, not what I think about other people ...

The subject is not what we Muslims "think" about other people. Allah knows what is in a persons heart better than we ourselves do and we never know when will Allah,spw, change someones heart.

The subject is about hating the forbidden,that which God dislikes and not about hating other people.
If God hates a particular things(a sin), for a very good reason of course,then we must do our best not to fall for it. So if the brother is satisfied with you're kufr than he would have no problem doing the same thing.

I don't like to base statements on feelings but on facts.

Peace

You suggested I should convert to Islam, because I love and respect my Muslim friends and neighbours.

There is a reason why your not a Muslim. The reason your not a Muslim is because you believ that that is what takes you to hell. You dislike that reason.

I am saying that I am following God, not other people.
Choosing my faith is not based on how I feel about others, but on how I believe God desires me to love, worship and serve him.

Same here, so the way I worship you don't want too. In Islam to prove you love and respect my deeds is not by tounge.

Your beliefs on how God wants you to love, worship and serve him may differ from mine to a greater or lesser degree, but our intention and desire to do so are supposedly the same.

To you your religion, sister, and to me mine.

Exacly what Islam teaches and what my point is. We're different. I believe that God hates the way you worship you believe that God hates the way I worship.

But let's not forget that in the process of following our faiths we have much in common and can do much to make this world a better place.

Going of subject.I believe that the way the world can be a good place is by truth. Everything God forbate is bad for us and the Earth. Falsehood is what causes mischief on the Earth.

Charity and care for those in need is one thing.
Respect for God's creation and for our brother and sisters in humanity is another
Good deeds and kind words go a long way.

All religions teach us to be good but Islam obligates me to do what you listed.

Salaam [/QUOTE]

sorry for bringing up this topic guys , I didn't mean to cause arguments =(
I am convinced with ur comments thanks guys

but I have a question
how about the christens who believe that Jesus is a messenger of Allah but don't believe in our prophet Mohammad SAAW

would that be Shirk or Kufer
what is the difference between them?
and would someone who committed shirk be punished then go to heaven ?(if there is difference between the 2 words )

format_quote Originally Posted by Danah

basically, the word kaffir is for any non-muslim and there are different type of kafroon since there are different kind of non-muslims

there is:
Ahal al Kitab (people of book) like christians and jews who do believe in the existence of God. Also, there are atheists and agnostics who reject the existence of God

this Ayah in surah al bayyina (chapter 98) made it very clear

Those who disbelieve among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters could not have left off (erring) till the clear proof came unto them, (1) A messenger from Allah, reading purified pages (2) Containing correct scriptures. (3) Nor were the People of the Scripture divided until after the clear proof came unto them. (4) And they are ordered naught else than to serve Allah, keeping religion pure for Him, as men by nature upright, and to establish worship and to pay the poor-due. That is true religion. (5) Lo! those who disbelieve, among the People of the Scripture and the idolaters, will abide in fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings. (6) (And) lo! those who believe and do good works are the best of created beings. (7) Their reward is with their Lord: Gardens of Eden underneath which rivers flow, wherein they dwell for ever. Allah hath pleasure in them and they have pleasure in Him. This is (in store) for him who feareth his Lord. (8)


لَمۡ يَكُنِ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِنۡ أَهۡلِ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبِ وَٱلۡمُشۡرِكِينَ مُنفَكِّينَ حَتَّىٰ تَأۡتِيَہُمُ ٱلۡبَيِّنَةُ (١) رَسُولٌ۬ مِّنَ ٱللَّهِ يَتۡلُواْ صُحُفً۬ا مُّطَهَّرَةً۬ (٢) فِيہَا كُتُبٌ۬ قَيِّمَةٌ۬ (٣) وَمَا تَفَرَّقَ ٱلَّذِينَ أُوتُواْ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبَ إِلَّا مِنۢ بَعۡدِ مَا جَآءَتۡہُمُ ٱلۡبَيِّنَةُ (٤) وَمَآ أُمِرُوٓاْ إِلَّا لِيَعۡبُدُواْ ٱللَّهَ مُخۡلِصِينَ لَهُ ٱلدِّينَ حُنَفَآءَ وَيُقِيمُواْ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَيُؤۡتُواْ ٱلزَّكَوٰةَ*ۚ وَذَٲلِكَ دِينُ ٱلۡقَيِّمَةِ (٥) إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ مِنۡ أَهۡلِ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبِ وَٱلۡمُشۡرِكِينَ فِى نَارِ جَهَنَّمَ خَـٰلِدِينَ فِيہَآ*ۚ أُوْلَـٰٓٮِٕكَ هُمۡ شَرُّ ٱلۡبَرِيَّةِ (٦) إِنَّ ٱلَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَعَمِلُواْ ٱلصَّـٰلِحَـٰتِ أُوْلَـٰٓٮِٕكَ هُمۡ خَيۡرُ ٱلۡبَرِيَّةِ (٧) جَزَآؤُهُمۡ عِندَ رَبِّہِمۡ جَنَّـٰتُ عَدۡنٍ۬ تَجۡرِى مِن تَحۡتِہَا ٱلۡأَنۡہَـٰرُ خَـٰلِدِينَ فِيہَآ أَبَدً۬ا*ۖ رَّضِىَ ٱللَّهُ عَنۡہُمۡ وَرَضُواْ عَنۡهُ*ۚ ذَٲلِكَ لِمَنۡ خَشِىَ رَبَّهُ ۥ (٨)

so would the punishment be the same regardless of their faith ?

I mean Ahal al Kitab and the atheists for example?

I do, however, believe that you miss and reject the beauty of God's grace and love, and the salvation which he offers to all of us through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ - of only we are willing to accept it. (But that's something which we cannot elaborate on here. It would belong into the Comparative Religions section, which will be closed shortly for the duration of Ramadan)



I know that in Christianity love of Jesus is something big. I find more love by the creator of the heavens and the earth and all in between of them.

I don't believe that God is all mercy I believe that God is also punishent,otherwise hell would not exist.

Contrary to Christianity we don't believe that we're saved just because we're Muslims. We just try to act in the way that pleases God while trying and avoiding everything that displeases him.

I said this so that you try and understand the purpose of the topic which is that we hate all form of kufr(sin).But you ended up telling me about Jesus's love and how he sacrificed himself????

format_quote Originally Posted by khalid84

im not making stuff up dont get me wrong but its not good maybe u think it does not but it does. thats the how i think

It doesn't matter how we think. The only thing that matters in what the Qur'aan says.

format_quote Originally Posted by mariam521

so would the punishment be the same regardless of their faith ?

I mean Ahal al Kitab and the atheists for example?

Allah,spw, created us not just to believe but also to act upon our believe.

All I know is that who ever does not accept Muhammad,saws, as a messanger will go to jehannam.

If you accept him as a messanger of Allah you must also be obedient. If you just aknowledge that he's a messanger I don't think is enough. I could be wrong.

Remember to what happened to those on Hendek when they disobeyed the messanger.

The shaytan believes.

Allah is the most fair.

All I know is that they don't give Allah,spw, his rights nor to his messanger.

Those who have never heard about Islam. Allah will test them on the judgement day. He will tell each to go to jehannam if one obeys Allah will make the fire cool and allow them jennah. If they don't they would be those who would throw Allah's book behind their backs on the dunya.

if a christian believes in allah and that jesus is he's messenger than this would not make them a mushrik but however not believing in prophet muhammed could make them a kafir

but then again why the disbelief n mohammed after he talked well about jesus and told his arab nation that mary is the best woman ever to grace earth

format_quote Originally Posted by Abdullahii

if a christian believes in allah and that jesus is he's messenger than this would not make them a mushrik but however not believing in prophet muhammed could make them a kafir

but then again why the disbelief n mohammed after he talked well about jesus and told his arab nation that mary is the best woman ever to grace earth

Brother, correct me if I am wrong.

If a person rejects one verse of the Qur'an is a kafir,correct.

I have read it by a scholar that it falls under kufr.

Yea.

format_quote Originally Posted by khalid84

afcourse it matters brother if we cant think then how can we tell between bad and good and if we cant think then there is no thinking just blank but what if i or u were born in a cristian family? wouldnt we follow our family and we would be talking about islam the same way or any other religion.
and allah gave us lots of knowledge some of them is unlocked and some is not. in the brain there is lots of knowledge stored more then u can imagine.

Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatu Allahi wa barakatuhu

That is not what the sister ment brother,no...

Islam ordains us to think,reason...

Please read this artice:

http://peacepropagation.com/2009/06/...out-knowledge/

"Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not."