are christians Kafroon ?

format_quote Originally Posted by AntiKarateKid

But keep in mind, your question is vague. For example, has the devout Jew or Christian heard of Islam and understood it but refused to follow it? Or did he never hear about it? See? A simple fact that you didn't mention changes the whole dynamic.

Well, this truly is theoretical. I have no particular living, breathing individual in mind. So, we can design him as you or I choose for the purpose of better understanding what it means to follow Islam. Your answers have been broad enough to consider some of those different items that I either hadn't considered or hadn't realized were important to consider and thus has helped in this regard. I thank you.

format_quote Originally Posted by mariam521

Brasco

thanks for explaining,

Glo
read brasco's reply he explained it

thank you guys for passing by

I am still waiting for the answer =(

The answer to your questions is simply this: ONLY GOD/ALLAH IS THE JUDGE, and i'd have to say if anyone says yes someone will goto hell, they are just plain ignorant.

so why worry about if someone else will make it to heaven, we should focus on ourselves making it to heaven. Even though we may feel the need to intervine and direct them in the right direction, NO ONE IS GURANTEED!

I'm not trying to be disrespectful!!!!!!

format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

Of course, since he really never was asked to say the Shahadd, and was just assumed to be Muslim because he was raised that way, maybe he isn't a hypocrit, but just your typical secular atheist??

It all boils down to belief, does that person believe in God and accept Muhammad (pbuh) as a messenger? If so, then he is a Muslim for sure.

format_quote Originally Posted by Argamemnon

It all boils down to belief, does that person believe in God and accept Muhammad (pbuh) as a messenger? If so, then he is a Muslim for sure.

I have a line that I believe is quite true with regard to belief: "What we believe effects our behavior." And I think that there is, therefore, also a corrollary to that maxim: "You can tell what one really believes more by what he/she does, than by what he/she says."

With that as background, would one who says that they believed in God and accepted Muhammad (pbuh) as messenger, but never even attempted to live a life of submission be, to use your phrase, "a Muslim for sure"?

format_quote Originally Posted by Grace Seeker

I have a line that I believe is quite true with regard to belief: "What we believe effects our behavior." And I think that there is, therefore, also a corrollary to that maxim: "You can tell what one really believes more by what he/she does, than by what he/she says."

With that as background, would one who says that they believed in God and accepted Muhammad (pbuh) as messenger, but never even attempted to live a life of submission be, to use your phrase, "a Muslim for sure"?

Of course!!!!!! he would be a Muslim, he is not a Christian or an Athiest, however that doesn't mean that he'll automaticly go to paradise.Unlike in Christianity, you believe that just because one accepts Jesus(pbuh)as a saviour he/she is saved.

We can't see through his heart. And we don't know when is Allah,exalthed He be, going to change someones heart wether he is a Christian or whatever.

Assalamu 3laykum,

6. Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islâm, the Qur'ân and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikûn will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures. - Surah Bayyinah

The difference between the mushrikeen and the kuffaar, and to which category do the Jews and Christians belong?
What is the difference between mushrikeen and kuffaar? Are the Jews and Christians mushrikeen or kuffaar?.


Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly:

The kaafir is the one who denies and conceals the truth. The basic meaning of the word kufr in Arabic is concealment. Shirk means devoting worship to anyone or anything other than Allaah.

Kufr may take the form of denying and rejecting, but the mushrik may also believe in Allaah. This is the difference between the mushrik and the kaafir.

Each word may also carry the meaning of the other, so the word kufr may be used in the sense of shirk, and the word shirk may be used in the sense of kufr.

Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Kufr and shirk may carry the same meaning, which is disbelief in Allaah, may He be exalted, or they may be used separately, whereby shirk refers to the worship of idols and other created beings, whilst also acknowledging Allaah, as the kuffaar of Quraysh did, and kufr may have a more general meaning than shirk. End quote.

Sharh Saheeh Muslim. 2/71

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Kufr is denial and concealment of the truth, such as one who denies that prayer is obligatory, or that zakaah is obligatory, or that fasting Ramadaan is obligatory, or that doing Hajj when one is able to is obligatory, or that honouring one's parents is obligatory, and so on, or one who denies that zina is haraam, or that drinking intoxicants is haraam, or that disobeying one’s parents is haraam, and so on.

Shirk is devoting acts of worship to something or someone other than Allaah, such as one who seeks the help of the dead, those who are absent, the jinn, idols, the stars, and so on, or who offers sacrifices to them, or makes vows to them. A kaafir may be called a mushrik and a mushrik may be called a kaafir, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And whoever invokes (or worships), besides Allaah, any other ilaah (god), of whom he has no proof; then his reckoning is only with his Lord. Surely, Al‑Kaafiroon (the disbelievers in Allaah and in the Oneness of Allaah, polytheists, pagans, idolaters) will not be successful”
[al-Mu’minoon 23:117]

“Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with Allaah, then Allaah has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode”

[al-Maa'idah 5:72]

And Allaah says in Soorat Faatir (interpretation of the meaning):

“Such is Allaah, your Lord; His is the kingdom. And those, whom you invoke or call upon instead of Him, own not even a Qitmeer (the thin membrane over the date stone).

14. If you invoke (or call upon) them, they hear not your call; and if (in case) they were to hear, they could not grant it (your request) to you. And on the Day of Resurrection, they will disown your worshipping them. And none can inform you (O Muhammad) like Him Who is the All‑Knower (of everything)”
[Faatir 35:13-14]

Their calling on anything other than Allaah is called shirk in this soorah, but in Soorat al-Mu’minoon it is called kufr.

Allaah says in Soorat al-Tawbah (interpretation of the meaning):

“They (the disbelievers, the Jews and the Christians) want to extinguish Allaah’s Light (with which Muhammad has been sent — Islamic Monotheism) with their mouths, but Allaah will not allow except that His Light should be perfected even though the Kaafiroon (disbelievers) hate (it).

33. It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it superior over all religions even though the Mushrikoon (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah) hate (it)”

[al-Tawbah 9:32-33]

Here Allaah calls the kuffaar kuffaar, and He calls them mushrikeen. This indicates that a kaafir may be called a mushrik and a mushrik may be called a kaafir. There are many similar verses and ahaadeeth.

Another example is the hadeeth in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Between a man and shirk and kufr there stands his giving up prayer.” Narrated by Muslim in his Saheeh from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah (may Allaah be pleased with him). And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The covenant that differentiates us from them is prayer; whoever gives it up is a kaafir.” Narrated by Imam Ahmad, Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi, al-Nasaa’i and Ibn Maajah with a saheeh isnaad from Buraydah ibn al-Husayb (may Allaah be pleased with him). And Allaah is the Source of strength. End quote.

Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 9/174, 175.

The Shaykh (may Allaah have mercy on him) also said:

It is also shirk to worship only something other than Allaah. This is called shirk, and it is called kufr. Whoever turns away from Allaah altogether and devotes his worship to something other than Allaah, such as trees, rocks, idols, the jinn or some of the dead such as those whom they call awliya’ (“saints”), and worship them, pray to them or fast for them, and forget Allaah altogether, this is the worst form of kufr and shirk. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound. Similarly those who deny the existence of Allaah and say that there is no god, that life is only material, such as the communists and atheists, are the most disbelieving and misguided of people, and the worst in terms of shirk. We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound. The point is that people who hold these and similar beliefs are all regarded as mushrikeen and kaafirs who disbelieve in Allaah. Some people, out of ignorance, mistakenly regard calling upon the dead and seeking their help as waseelah and think that it is permissible. This is a serious error, because this action is one of the worst forms of shirk and associating others with Allaah. Some ignorant people and mushrikeen call it waseelah, but it is the religion of the mushrikeen whom Allaah criticized and condemned. He sent the Messenger and revealed His Books to denounce it and warn against it. End quote.

Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 4/32, 33

Secondly:

The Jews and Christians are both kaafirs and mushrikeen. They are kaafirs because they deny the truth and reject it. And they are mushrikeen because they worship someone other than Allaah.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And the Jews say: ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allaah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allaah. That is their saying with their mouths, resembling the saying of those who disbelieved aforetime. Allaah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!

31. They (Jews and Christians) took their rabbis and their monks to be their lords besides Allaah (by obeying them in things which they made lawful or unlawful according to their own desires without being ordered by Allaah), and (they also took as their Lord) Messiah, son of Maryam (Mary), while they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] to worship none but One Ilaah (God — Allaah) Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)”

[al-Tawbah 9:30, 31]

Here they are described as mushrikeen. In Soorat al-Bayyinah they are described as kaafirs, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Those who disbelieve from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al‑Mushrikoon, were not going to leave (their disbelief) until there came to them clear evidence”

[al-Bayyinah 98:1]

Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said, refuting those who say that the word mushrikeen cannot be applied to the People of the Book:

It is most likely that the people of the Book are included among the mushrikeen, men and women alike, when this word is used in general terms. because the kuffaar are undoubtedly mushrikeen. Hence they are forbidden to enter al-Masjid al-Haraam, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“O you who believe (in Allaah’s Oneness and in His Messenger Muhammad)! Verily, the Mushrikoon (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah, and in the Message of Muhammad) are Najasun (impure). So let them not come near Al‑Masjid Al-Haraam (at Makkah) after this year”

[al-Tawbah 9:28]

If the People of the Book did not come under the general heading of mushrikeen, then this verse would not apply to them, and Allaah would not have referred to the beliefs of the Jews and Christians in Soorat Baraa’ah (al-Tawbah) where He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“they (Jews and Christians) were commanded [in the Tawraat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] to worship none but One Ilaah (God — Allaah) Laa ilaaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He). Praise and glory be to Him (far above is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)”

[al-Tawbah 9:31]

So they are all described as mushrikeen, because the Jews said that ‘Uzayr is the son of God and the Christians said that the Messiah is the son of God; and because they took their priests and rabbis as lords instead of Allaah. All of this is the worst form of shirk. And there are many similar verses. End quote.

Majmoo’ Fataawa al-Shaykh Ibn Baaz, 4/274

And Allaah knows best.

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/67626/jews%20christians

As for disbelieving in the Messenger Muhammad sallallahu alayhi'wa'salam, then this is makes you a kafir by consensus.

"By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no-one of this Ummah, Jew or Christian, who hears of me then dies without believing in that with which I have been sent, but he will be one of the people of Hell." (Sahih Muslim, 153).

As for takfir then the ulemma differentiate between two things.

1) Takfir of the dunya

2) Takfir of the akhira

Although one may say the Jews and Christians are kuffar, this does not mean we can say Fulan ibn Fulan is in the fire. In order to do so, we should have a text to say so. Likewise we cannot say Fulan ibn Fulan is IN the Jannah unless we have a text do so.

Examples:

Jannah: Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, Sa3d ibn Abi Waqqas, Sa3eed ibn Zayd, Talha ibn Ubaydullah, Zubayr ibn al Awwaam, Abdul Rahman ibn Awf, Abu Ubaydah ibn al Jarrah, etc.

Jahannam: Firawn, Iblees, Abu Jahl, Abu Lahab, the wife of Abu Lahab, etc.

The reason we cannot say so and so is in the fire without a text is due to the hadeeth of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi'wa'salam and this is a long discussion. I will post what ibn al Qayyim says about it in his "The Path of the Two Migrations And the Door to the Two States of Bliss".

Assalamu 3laykum,

Ibn al Qayyim says in his book "The Path of the Two Migrations And The Door to the Two States of Bliss":

The Fourteenth Level: A people having niether obedience nor disobedience, and having niether Unbelief nor true Faith (Emaan), and they are of different types.

So from them are those whom the true call did not reach at all and who did not hear it being related. Also from them is the insane person who could not grasp anything requiring intellect and could not discern. Also from them is the deaf person who never heard anything. And also from them are the children of the mushrikeen: those who died before being able to discern anything.

So the Ummah has differed greatly regarding the like of this level, and they have spoken a great deal about the matter of the children of the mushrikeen.

As for the children of the Muslims, then Imam Ahmad rahimahullah said: 'No one differs concerning them.' (i.e. that they will be in the Paradise).

However ibn Abdul Barr rahimahullah related that a group withheld in regard to them and stated that all children fall under (the ruling of Allaah's) Will and Wish (mashee'ah). As for the children of the Mushrikeen, then the people have eight sayings with regard to them:

Firstly: To withold regarding them and to refrain from asserting that they will be in Paradise or that they will be in the Fire. Rather, knowledge of them is entrusted to Allaah, the Most High, and what is said regarding them is what the Prophet said as occurs in the authentic hadeeth which is agreed upon: "Allah knows best what they would have done (al Bukhari 1384, Muslim 2659 from the path of Abu Hurrayrah, also al Bukhari no. 6597 and Muslim no. 2660 from the path of ibn Abbas.)

Secondly: That they will be in the Fire. This was held by a group of theological rhetoric (al Mutakallimoon) and the people of tafseer.

Thirdly: That they will be in Paradise. This was the saying of a group of the people of tafseer, the people of theological rhetoric, and others.

Fourthly: That they will be in a station between the two stations: between Paradise and the Fire. This was the saying of a group of the people of tafseer.

Fifthly: That they are under the Will and Wish (masheeh'ah) of Allaah, the Most High: if He wishes He will punish them and if He wishes He will forgive them.

Sixthly: That they will be servants for the people of Paradise and slaves for them: just like their servants and slaves in the world.

Seventhly: That they have the same ruling as their fathers in this world and the Hereafter and are not seperated from them in their ruling in the abode.

Eighthly: (Ibn al Qayyim says this is the most correct opinion), That they will be tried on the open plain of Resurrection; and that a Messenger will be sent to them there and to everyone whom the true call did not reach. Then whoever obeys the Messenger will enter Paradise, and whoever disobeys him will enter the Fire. With this saying all of the evidences are harmonised.

Ibn al Qayyim says in 'Tareeq'ul Hijratayn' from the authentic hadeeth,

"Four people will be brought on the Day of Resurrection: the child, the mentally retarded person, the one who died in the period between Messengers, and the senile old person. Each one will state his plea. So the Lord, the Blessed and Most High, will say to a part of the Fire: "Come forward." So He will say to them: "I sent Messengers to My servants, from amongst themselves, and I am a Messenger for Myself to you. Enter this!" So those upon whom wretchedness was written will say: 'O My Lord! How can we enter it when we previously fled from it?' He said: And whoever had it written for him that he was to be from the fortunate will proceed (into it) and will rush into it. He said: So He, the Blessed and Most High, will say (i.e. to the first group): "You would have been more severe in denying and disobeying my Messengers.' So He will enter those into Paradise and these into the Fire.

(From the hadeeth of Anas ibn Malik radiallaahu anhu reported by Qaadi Abu Ya'laa and al Bazzaar, and Abu Sa3eed reported by al Baghawee in Hadeeth ibn'ul Ja'd; and Mu3dh reported by a'Tabaraanee. Shaykh Albanee declared that these narrations and others strengthen each other in a'Saheehah no 2468.)

Shaykh al Islaam ibn Taymiyya said in Majmoo3 al Fataawa 4/ 246-247: "So therefore when Allah's Messenger sallallahu alayhi'wa'salam was asked about those who die young from the children of the Mushriks, he said, "Allah knows what deeds they would have done." meaning, Allah knows those who would have been believers from them and those who would have been unbelievers had they attained adulthood. Then there occurs in the hadeeth whose chain of narraters is passable, from Abu Hurrayrah from the Prophet sallallahu alayhi'wa'salam that he said, "On the day of Resurrection Allah will test them and send a Messenger to them on the plain of the Resurrectino. So whoever obeys him will enter Paradise and whoever disobeys him will enter the fire."

So whatever Allah, the perfect knew about them will be made manifest, and He will recompense them on this basis of what was manifested from the knowledge: which is their emaan or unbelief; not on the basis of (His) knowledge alone.

Allah says:

15. Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself. And whoever goes astray, then he goes astray to his own loss. No one laden with burdens can bear another's burden. And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning). al-Israa: 15

Assalamu 3laykum,

Shaykh al Islaam Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab said in his 'Nullifiers of Islam'

3. Whoever does not hold the polytheists to be disbelievers, or
has doubts about their disbelief or considers their ways and beliefs
to be correct, has committed disbelief.

Shaykh Abdullah ibn Jibreen rahimahullah said concerning this:

This nullifier consists of three parts: Firstly, whosoever does not agree that the atheists are disbelievers, when Allah announces in the Qur'an in many verses that they are indeed kuffar (infidels).

Allah says in the Qur'an (of which meaning translates as), "Verily, those who disbelieve [in the religion of Islam, the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)] from among the people of the Scripture [Jews and Christians] and Al-Mushrikeen, will abide in the Fire of Hell" (98:6). Secondly, whosoever hesitates in the status of the kuffar (infidels) (i.e. he is not sure they are disbelievers or not). Thirdly, whosoever praises the path of the kuffar (infidels) and believes that their religion is correct and that they are on the right path;

this type is even worse than the first two. There are two ints that must be mentioned here:

- When we say the kuffar (infidels) here, we mean those for whom there is no doubt they are disbelievers (i.e. Jews, Christians, Hindus, etc.) and those who claim to be Muslims, but who are believed by the majority of the Muslim scholars to be disbelievers (i.e. Qadianies, An'Nosairiah, Al-Baha'aih, Ad'Drowze, Al-Batiniah, etc.). Sheikh AlIslam Ibn Taymiyyah said, "Whosoever hesitates in the disbelief of those groups after having knowledge of what they say and having knowledge of the religion of Islam, then he is a kaffir (infidel); just as having doubt in the disbelief of the Jews, Christians, and the atheists (Al-Fatawa Vol 2, P368). But for those for whose kufr (infidelity) the scholars dispute, such as the one who abandons As" Salat (the five daily prayers without rejecting its obligation); this does not fall under this nullifier.

- In regards to praising the kuffar (infidels), the Muslim must take great care. If praising them in their faith, this is considered as kufr (infidelity). Whereas praising their behavior (such as their courage or their generosity) is permissible. But one thing the Muslim must avoid, which is considered sinful, is to call a kaffir (infidel) "Mister" as the Messenger (PBUH) said (of which meaning translates as): "When you call the hypocrite 'Mister', you have made your Lord angry" (Reported by An- Nasa'i).



Its also important to remember the ayat of Surah'tul Imraan

81. And (remember) when Allâh took the Covenant of the Prophets, saying: "Take whatever I gave you from the Book and Hikmah (understanding of the Laws of Allâh, etc.), and afterwards there will come to you a Messenger (Muhammad SAW) confirming what is with you; you must, then, believe in him and help him." Allâh said: "Do you agree (to it) and will you take up My Covenant (which I conclude with you)?" They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear witness; and I am with you among the witnesses (for this)."

82. Then whoever turns away after this, they are the Fâsiqûn (rebellious: those who turn away from Allâh's Obedience).

83. Do they seek other than the religion of Allâh (the true Islâmic Monotheism worshipping none but Allâh Alone), while to Him submitted all creatures in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly. And to Him shall they all be returned.

84. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "We believe in Allâh and in what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Ibrâhim (Abraham), Ismâ'il (Ishmael), Ishâque (Isaac), Ya'qûb (Jacob) and Al-Asbât [the twelve sons of Ya'qûb (Jacob)] and what was given to Mûsa (Moses), 'Iesa (Jesus) and the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between one another among them and to Him (Allâh) we have submitted (in Islâm)."

85. And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers[].

86. How shall Allâh guide a people who disbelieved after their belief and after they bore witness that the Messenger (Muhammad SAW) is true and after clear proofs had come unto them? And Allâh guides not the people who are Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong-doers).

87. They are those whose recompense is that on them (rests) the Curse of Allâh, of the angels, and of all mankind.

88. They will abide therein (Hell). Neither will their torment be lightened, nor will it be delayed or postponed (for a while).

And Allah knows best

format_quote Originally Posted by anatolian

Salam aleykum. According to Quran those who claim the trinity are kafiroon. Are the non-trinitarian christians also kafiroon? I don't know very well..I also don't know wheter they go hell or heaven..

Allah mentions the Christians who say "thrice" as well as those who say Isa ibn Maryam alayhi'salam is the son of Allah (a3udhubillah). So both are kafiroon.

“And the Jews say: ‘Uzair (Ezra) is the son of Allaah, and the Christians say: Messiah is the son of Allaah. That is their saying with their mouths, resembling the saying of those who disbelieved aforetime. Allaah’s Curse be on them, how they are deluded away from the truth!”

[al-Tawbah 9:30]

O people of the Scripture (Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allaah aught but the truth. The Messiah ‘Eesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allaah and His Word, (‘Be!’ — and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rooh) created by Him; so believe in Allaah and His Messengers. Say not: ‘Three (trinity)!’ Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allaah is (the only) One Ilaah (God), glory is to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allaah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs”

[al-Nisa’ 4:171]

what if god forgives the non believers and not us do u know that or forgives all of us afcourse not

Won't happen as Allah says...

18. And of no effect is the repentance of those who continue to do evil deeds until death faces one of them and he says: "Now I repent;" nor of those who die while they are disbelievers. For them We have prepared a painful torment. - Surah Nisa'a 18

48. Verily, Allâh forgives not that partners should be set up with him in worship, but He forgives except that (anything else) to whom He pleases, and whoever sets up partners with Allâh in worship, he has indeed invented a tremendous sin. - Surah Nisa'a 48

the is no change in the Sunnah (way) of Allah (swt) (Quran)