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Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

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    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!' (OP)


    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'
    Imaam Sayyid Nadheer Hussayn ad-Dahlawee



    Is it permissible to say ‘O Messenger of Allaah’ (يا رسول الله) any where other than in the presence of the Prophet of Allaah’s grave?


    The phrase ‘O Messenger of Allaah’! (يا رسول الله) is used to call upon and invoke the Messenger of Allaah. However, when invoking someone, it is important that the one being called upon is present or else he would not be able to listen to or respond the call. There are some people who believe that the Messenger of Allaah is omnipresent [1] according to their belief, the one that is omnipresent encompasses the knowledge of all things. However, the one that truly encompasses the knowledge of all things is none other than Allaah, the Most High alone, and this is one of His unique attributes. To assign such a unique attribute to anyone other than Allaah is to associate partners with Him, which is the greatest sin one can commit. In his book entitled ‘Miftahul-Quloob’, Mulla Husain Khabbaz[2] has written that:

    ‘To call upon the dead believing that they are omnipresent [as Allaah is with His knowledge], for example to say ‘O Messenger of Allaah’! (يا رسول الله) or ‘O Shaykh Abdul-Qadir Jailaanee! [3]’ etc., then know that this is disbelief. It is for this reason that in the books of [Hanafi] Fiqh[4], it has been narrated that if a person was to conduct a marriage, bear witnessing that Allaah & His Messenger are both his witnesses, then this marriage contract would be considered invalid, whilst the one who conducted this marriage would be considered a disbeliever because of their belief that the Prophet of Allaah knows the knowledge of the unseen.’ Refer to Bahrur-Ra’iq[5] and others.

    I say [Sayyid Nadhir Husain Dehlawi] to make a distinction whilst calling upon somebody by saying ‘O so and so!’, whether it be a prophet or anybody else, whether it is whilst sending prayers on the prophet in Salaah or on any other occasion… then this is not feasible because you should only call upon somebody that is present and can hear you, and the Prophet is not omnipresent [as Allaah’s knowledge is omnipresent].With regards to sending prayers upon the Prophet, then this is something that has been established in authentic Hadeeth where the angels convey the prayers that are sent upon him[6]. Therefore the person who calls upon and invokes somebody that is not present is indicating that they believe that the one being called upon is omnipresent and it is this type of belief that has been defined as associating partners with Allaah. Therefore, it is very important that a Muslim abstains from using such words and actions that imply such heretical beliefs i.e. associating partners with Allaah. If somebody was to argue by using the prayer ‘Salaatul-Hajjah[7]’ as a proof and evidence then the answer to that is that at the time when Salaatul-Hajjah was prayed, the Prophet of Allaah was alive and present amongst the believers, but now he is dead and no longer with us. Although the same wording is adopted, it is only said in its narrative form in the past tense, just as one does when he supplicates in the Tashhahud. In his book entitled ‘To attain the blessings of Allaah by explaining the meaning of At-Tahiyyat [Tashhahud], Sheikh Abdul-Huq Muhaddeeth Dehlawi[8] has written:

    ‘That the response to those who argue that in the Tashhahud we send prayers on the Prophet by addressing him in the first person [i.e. saying O Prophet!], although he is not present is as follows: The prayer upon the Prophet in the Tashhahud is in its narrative form in the past tense which occurred during the incident of Miraj. Further, it has been narrated by Imam Bukhari in his Saheeh on the authority of Abdullah ibn Masood who said:

    ‘The messenger of Allaah taught me the Tashhahud [with] my palm between his palms, the way he taught me the Surahs of the Qur’an [which began with the following words]: ‘’All compliments, prayers, and pure words are due to Allaah, Peace be on you, O Prophet…’’ This was while he was among us, but after he passed away, we would say ‘Peace be on the prophet.’[9]

    Therefore, to use the aforementioned words as proof and evidence [is out of context and] is incorrect. And Allaah knows best!

    16th Ramadan 1267 AH,
    Fataawa Nadheeriyah
    Book of Eemaan and Beliefs
    Volume 1 page 159-161.




    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    [1] Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jam’aah do not believe that Allaah is omnipresent. Rather they believe that Allaah’s knowledge is omnipresent [i.e. His knowledge encompasses all things apparent and hidden). Ahlus-Sunnah Wal-Jam’aah further believe that Allaah, the Most high, is above the seven heavens, above His Arsh, and separate from His creation in a manner that befits His majesty. This is established from the Qur’an & Sunnah, as well as the consensus of the companions of the messenger of Allaah. [TN]

    [2] I could not find a biography of Mulla Husain Khabbaz. After asking Sheikh Uzair Shams Al-Hindee of Makkah, he informed me that in his opinion it may be that Imam Nadhir Husain Dehlawi quoted this reference from a manuscript, and Allaah knows best. [TN]

    [3] Abdul Qadir Jilani [in Arabic] or Gaylani [in Persian] was born in Ramadan 470 AH in the Persian province of Jilan in Iran south of the Caspian Sea. He went to Baghdad to seek knowledge when he was 18 years old, where he studied Aqeedah, Hadeeth and the Hanbali Fiqh with many scholars. Many fabricated books have been attributed to him along with false allegations of his involvement of a Sufi order known as Qadariyyah. What is known is that he was a man of Sunnah and upon the Aqeedah of Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal, and Allaah knows best. He died in Baghdad in the year 561 AH at the age of 91 years. [TN]

    [4] For example refer to the English translation of Fatawa-I-Qazi Khan, Volume 1, page 34 with Arabic text relating to Islamic Law, by Fakhruddin Hasan bin Mansoor Al-Uzjandi Al-Farghani (d.592 AH), translated and edited into English by Maulvi Muhammad Yusuf Khan Bahadur & Maulvi Wilayat Husain, Published by Kitab Bhavan, New Delhi, India, reprinted 1994. The text is as follows: A man marries a woman citing as witnesses Allaah and His Prophet, the marriage is void, (on the authority of the Prophet himself, on whom be the blessings of Allaah), the Prophet having laid down , that “There is no marriage except when there are witnesses,” whilst every marriage that takes place is witnessed by Allaah: and some of the learned have held that such marriage involves Kufr (blasphemy or infidelism), because it involves belief that the Prophet knows the hidden things, which is blasphemy. [TN]

    [5] Bahrur-Ra’iq’ is an explanation of one of the most eminent books of Hanafi Fiqh known as Kanzud-Daqa’iq by Abul-Barakat Abdullah bin Ahmed bin Mahmood An-Nasafi (d.710 AH). It was authored by Zainul-Abedeen bin Ibrahim bin Nujaim Al-Hanafi who also authored ‘Al-Ashbaa wan-Nadhaair’ (another important book of Hanafi Fiqh). He died in the year 969/970 AH. For more details for his biography refer to Abdul-Hay Lucknowi’s marginal notes on Al-Fawaaid-Al-Bahiyyah, and the publisher’s introduction of Al-Ashbaa wan-Nadhaair page 20-21, Idaratul-Qur’an wa Uloomul-Islamiyyah, Karachi Pakistan, second edition 1424 AH/2004 [TN]. The text of ‘Bahrur’Raiq’ is as follows: “If a person conducting a nikaah was to testify that Allaah and Muhammad were his witnesses, then this person has actually believed that Allaah’s prophet has knowledge of the unseen, thus making him a kaafir” [Bahrur-Ra’iq (5/16)].

    [6] Refer to Saheeh Ibn Hibban Hadeeth no: 2293 and Al-Hakim: 2/421 which has been graded Saheeh [authentic] by Imam Dhahabee. Also refer to Sunan Abee Daud Hadeeth no: 2041 graded Saheeh [authentic] by Imam Ibn Taymiyah. [TN]

    [7] In praying Salaatul-Hajjah, one is required to properly undertake Wudhoo, pray two rak’ahs, and then to single out Allaah alone in supplication [asking only Allaah for whatever one is in need of]. The supplication that was referred to by Imam Nadhir Dehlawi and by which some people take out of context and try to use as proof and evidence for their deviant ways is based on a Hadeeth reported by Uthmân bin Hunaif (may Allaah be pleased with him) where a blind man afflicted with the sickness having lost his eyesight came to the Messenger of Allaah (Allaah bless him & give him peace) requesting him to supplicate to Allaah for him to restore his eyesight. The wording of this supplication is as follows: ‘Oh Allaah, I ask you and turn to you through the intermediary of Muhammad, the prophet of mercy, O Muhammad! I turn to my Rubb through you [supplicating to Him alone] that He may restore [cure] my eyesight. O Allaah! Accept his supplication [intercession] with respect to me, and accept this supplication of mine by giving me [good] health. Reported by Imam Al-Bayhaqi in Dalaail-An-Nubuwwah 6/167-168, Imam Ahmed in his Musnad 4/138, Imam An-Nisa’ee in Amalul-Al-Yawm wal-Lailah 418, while Imam Al-Hakim declared it Saheeh [authentic] according to the conditions of Imam Bukhari & Imam Muslim. Imam At-Tirmidhee has reported another similar narration but with out the wording of ‘pray two rak’ahs’, refer to Sunan Tirmidhee Hadeeth no 3578 declared Saheeh [authentic] by Allamah Albani. An important factor in relation to understanding the aforementioned narration that was mentioned by Allamah Albani and is valuable in obtaining the proper understanding of this Hadeeth is that the blind man sought intermediary through the supplication of the Messenger of Allaah, he did not seek the intermediary of the Messenger of Allaah himself. For further details refer to the book of Allamah Albani At-Tawassul its different types and its rulings. [TN]

    [8] His full name is Shah Abdul-Aziz bin Al-Muhaddeeth Shah Waliulllah bin Abdur Rahim Al-Muhaddeeth Ad-Dehlawi Al-Umaree Al-Farooqee. Born in the year 1159 AH, he started to memorise the Qur’an at the age of five. Among the books he authored are: 1. Fathul-Aziz which is an explanation of the Qur’an in Persian. 2. Majmooah-Fatãwaa 3.Tauhfa Ithnaa-Ashariyyah is a refutation of the Shias, and numerous other books. In the later period of his life he tried to reform the Muslims of India by calling them to follow the Sunnah and abandoning the blind-following of Madhabs. He died on the 7th Shawwal 1239 AH and was buried next to his father. Refer toTaraajim Ulema Ahlil-Hadeeth fil al- Hind page 84-94. [TN]

    [9] Recorded in Saheeh Bukhari, vol. 8, The book of asking permission, Chapter 28, Hadeeth number: 6265 [English Edition, Darussalam] [TN]

    [10] He is Imam Sayyid Nadhir Husain Dehlawi. born in the year 1220 AH corresponding to 1805 CE. He left home at the age of 17 in search of Islamic knowledge. He arrived in Delhi on the 13th Rajab 1243 AH where he studied under the most prominent scholars of Islam of that era. From amongst his teachers include Allamah Shah Muhammad Ishaaq Dehlawi (1192 AH-1262 AH) who was the grandson of Allamah Shah Abdul-Aziz Dehlawi. Imam Sayyid Nadhir Husain Dehlawi authored over 60 books, from amongst them is his Fatãwaa known as Fatãwaa Nadheeriyyah in 2 volumes, and Mayaarul-Huq on the issue of Taqleed (blind-following a particular Fiqh Madhab). He called to Tahweed and taught Hadeeth and defended the Sunnah all his life. He is considered unanimously amongst Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jama’aah as one of the Imams of his time who revived Ad-Dawah-Salafiyyah in the Indian subcontinent. He died on the 10th Rajab 1320 AH corresponding to 15th October 1902 CE. Those amongst his senior students include Allamah Shamsul-Huq Adheemabaadee (d. 1329AH), Allamah Abdur-Rahmãn Mubarakpuree (d.1353 AH), Allamah Thanaullah Amritsaree (d.1368 AH.) and many others. Refer to the introduction of Fatãwaa Nadheeriyyah page 26-51 for a detailed biography of the Imam. [TN]

    Fataawaa Nadheeriyah Book of Eeman and Beliefs Volume 1 page 159-161.

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

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    Don't jump the sister with fatwa's just post what you need to post which is relevant to the thread and go..

    ^^ woah that coming from me does not make sense..*relevant* hehe

    JazakAllah khairun.
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'


    "Whoever lives amongst you will see much differing, so adhere to my Sunnah" Muhammad
    (صلّى الله عليه و سلم)

    Dhikhrul-lil-Aalamiin

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    Selam aleykum wa rahmetallahu wa barakathu,

    Surely an interesting read but I just must say every time I come across people saying Taqleed is "blind-following a madhhab", as if that is it's meaning, I have to laugh out loud. But that's off-topic.


    OK, something on topic. Just some thought that crossed by mind, please don't laugh.

    We follow the learned scholars so that we are capable of following the Prophet (salAllahu aleyhi waselam)'s way, correct? Yes, of course.
    So in a way or another, our main purpose is to follow Prophet Muhammed (salAllahu aleyhi waselam). We kinda "seek help" from scholars, who give us proof and knowledge, so exactly that our aim will be fullfilled.
    Another thing I came to think of, is in a any day situation.

    Like my sister is for example, too embarrassed to ask me to help her in her project or grant her forgiveness for something, so she goes and asks my father to tell the message further, 'cause she knows I'm not angry with Dad so I'll take it easier and 'cause Dad can make me think twice etc.
    She is not asking Dad for forgiveness, but sending the message further from a better source. Doesn't mean she wouldn't come to me directly, but maybe doing it thru Dad makes her think she's got better chances.. I mean she is "inoviking me" but through the stronger help from my Dad. Astagfiruallah, I don't wanna sound rude or anything, this was just thoughts and Allahu Aleem.
    I definietaly agree you should not pray to anyone besides Allah, and it is Allah whom your duas should be directed to, buttawassul has been defined as supplicating Allahu ta’ala by means of an intermediary, "means".
    Last edited by Al-Zaara; 12-09-2007 at 06:01 PM.
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

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    True leaders don't create followers...
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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    ^ tawassul is ok through someone alive or names/attributes of Allaah, or through your own good deeds.

    Thats my view inshaAllaah

    Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullaah
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

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    My tears testify that i have a heart
    yet i feel me and shaytan never part
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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Zaara View Post


    OK, something on topic. Just some thought that crossed by mind, please don't laugh, but like we follow the learned scholars so that we are capable of following the Prophet (salAllahu aleyhi waselam)'s way, correct? Yes, of course.

    So in a way or another, our main purpose is to follow Prophet Muhammed (salAllahu aleyhi waselam). We kinda "seek help" from scholars, who give us proof and knowledge, so exactly that our aim will be fullfilled.

    There's nothing wrong with following scholars, since they are alive in this world and we can benefit from them.



    Another thing I came to think of, is in a any day situation.

    Like my sister is for example, too embarrassed to ask me to help her in her project or grant her forgiveness for something, so she goes and asks my father to tell the message further, 'cause she knows I'm not angry with Dad so I'll take it easier and 'cause Dad can make me think twice etc. She is not asking Dad for forgiveness, but sending the message further from a better source. Doesn't mean she wouldn't come to me directly, but maybe doing it thru Dad makes her think she's got better chances.. I mean she is "inoviking me" but through the stronger help from my Dad. Astagfiruallah, I don't wanna sound rude or anything, this was just thoughts and Allahu Aleem.

    Again, there are many narrations where the companions asked the Messenger of Allah to pray for rain. Even many other prayers, however - after he passed away - they stopped asking him, and from the hadith quoted above [from sahih al bukhari] - it becomes clear that they stopped asking him to pray for them after he passed away. That was their clear understanding of the issue.

    So it becomes clear that its not forbidden to ask a pious person - who is alive in this world to pray for you. However, once he has passed away - you should not ask them to pray for you since you are calling to them in a supernatural way and expecting them to hear you, although they are in another life now [i.e. the barzakh - the barrier between this life and the next.]


    I definietaly agree you should not pray to anyone besides Allah, and it is Allah whom your duas should be directed to, but tawassul has been defined as supplicating Allahu ta’ala by means of an intermediary, "means".

    Let's see whats stated in the Qur'an;


    Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Who provides for you from the sky and from the earth? Or who owns hearing and sight? And who brings out the living from the dead and brings out the dead from the living? And who disposes the affairs?" They will say: "Allah." Say: "Will you not then be afraid of Allah's Punishment (for setting up rivals in worship with Allah)?"

    [Qur'an Surah Yunus 10: 31]




    And verily, if you ask them: "Who created the heavens and the earth?" Surely, they will say: "Allah (has created them)." Say: "Tell me then, the things that you invoke besides Allah, if Allah intended some harm for me, could they remove His harm, or if He (Allah) intended some mercy for me, could they withhold His Mercy?" Say : "Sufficient for me is Allah; in Him those who trust (i.e. believers) must put their trust."

    [Qur'an Surah Zumar 39: 38]


    But what's their argument when they pray to other than Allah?


    Surely, the religion (i.e. the worship and the obedience) is for Allah only. And those who take Auliya' (protectors and helpers) besides Him (say): "We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allah." Verily, Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allah guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever.

    [Qur'an Surah Zumar 39: 3]



    And they worship besides Allah things that hurt them not, nor profit them, and they say: "These are our intercessors with Allah." Say: "Do you inform Allah of that which He knows not in the heavens and on the earth?" Glorified and Exalted be He above all that which they associate as partners with Him!

    [Qur'an Surah Yunus 10: 18]


    The reality is, that praying for their intercession is EXACTLY what the christians, jews, and pagans [even at the time of the Prophet] claimed to do. They believe that Allah is their Creator, Sustainer, provider etc, however - they worship other than Allah. Someone might make an extreme claim by saying that invoking them for intermediation isn't an act of worship, but it really still is because you're trying to ask them at a supernatural level. You're not asking someone who's in your presence, rather they're someone whos died.

    Christians claim they invoke their saints for their intermediation, aswell as Mary (peace be upon her) and other pious people. Us muslims are falling into the exact same traps.


    We know it's Allah who alone answers our prayers, so let's ask Him alone. If we want Him to respond to our prayers, then we should strive to draw closer to Him by obeying His Messenger (sal Allahu alayhi waSalam.)

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Zaara View Post
    Selam aleykum wa rahmetallahu wa barakathu,

    Surely an interesting read but I just must say every time I come across people saying Taqleed is "blind-following a madhhab", as if that is it's meaning, I have to laugh out loud. But that's off-topic.


    OK, something on topic. Just some thought that crossed by mind, please don't laugh.
    We follow the learned scholars so that we are capable of following the Prophet (salAllahu aleyhi waselam)'s way, correct? Yes, of course.
    So in a way or another, our main purpose is to follow Prophet Muhammed (salAllahu aleyhi waselam). We kinda "seek help" from scholars, who give us proof and knowledge, so exactly that our aim will be fullfilled.
    Another thing I came to think of, is in a any day situation.
    Like my sister is for example, too embarrassed to ask me to help her in her project or grant her forgiveness for something, so she goes and asks my father to tell the message further, 'cause she knows I'm not angry with Dad so I'll take it easier and 'cause Dad can make me think twice etc.
    She is not asking Dad for forgiveness, but sending the message further from a better source. Doesn't mean she wouldn't come to me directly, but maybe doing it thru Dad makes her think she's got better chances.. I mean she is "inoviking me" but through the stronger help from my Dad. Astagfiruallah, I don't wanna sound rude or anything, this was just thoughts and Allahu Aleem.
    I definietaly agree you should not pray to anyone besides Allah, and it is Allah whom your duas should be directed to, buttawassul has been defined as supplicating Allahu ta’ala by means of an intermediary, "means".


    May Allaah reward you for your sincerity

    This is a sincere question to you sister.

    Do you know or can you please explain to me what the religion of the Arabs of Jahilliya was before the beloved Messenger?

    I just want to have that established before I reply to anything that you've said.
    Last edited by Ibn Abi Ahmed; 12-09-2007 at 06:27 PM.
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    Do not argue with your Lord on behalf of your soul, rather argue with your soul on behalf of your Lord.” - Dhul-Nun

    "It is the very pursuit of happiness that thwarts happiness." - Victor Frankl

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'



    I think i get what sis Mujahida's saying, like saying Ya RasulAllah in of itself isn't shirk (Depending on the intention.)
    Yeh.

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    format_quote Originally Posted by Muj4h1d4 View Post




    Yeh.
    read up on the rest of it lol

    Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullaah
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    -
    My tears testify that i have a heart
    yet i feel me and shaytan never part
    -

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    Oh my -Qatada-, you gave me much to read and I have to go! But I promise, inshaAllah, I'll read this as soon as I return!

    Selam aleykum,

    format_quote Originally Posted by 'Ubaydullah View Post


    May Allaah reward you for your sincerity

    This is a sincere question to you sister.

    Do you know or can you please explain to me what the religion of the Arabs of Jahilliya was before the beloved Messenger?

    I just want to have that established before I reply to anything that you've said.
    Aleykum selam,

    Firstly, stop those "smiling"- smilies. I hate it, it looks so evil and dishonest and as if one is looking down at the person... And you're not doing that to me, right?


    Secondly, you mean polytheism and worship of idols? When they asked stones and trees etc to grant them favours? Can you please wait until I read what brother -Qatada- has provided until you and I can discuss? JazakAllahu khairun both of you. =)

    Selam aleykum wa rahmetallahu!
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    If only I had checked myself
    Guy who wrecked himself

    True leaders don't create followers...
    .... They create new leaders.

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim View Post
    read up on the rest of it lol

    Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullaah


    I did, but Alhamdulillah someone understands where I'm coming from.

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    format_quote Originally Posted by Muj4h1d4 View Post


    I did, but Alhamdulillah someone understands where I'm coming from.
    i understood it too, coz i was there once, dont worry bout it sis.

    Whenever you look at the whole picture, you can clearly see what the sahabi were upon. Alhamdulillaah !


    Assalamu Alaikum wa rahmatullaah
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Zaara View Post
    Aleykum selam,

    Firstly, stop those "smiling"- smilies. I hate it, it looks so evil and dishonest and as if one is looking down at the person... And you're not doing that to me, right?



    By Allaah, of course not! I just used that to denote politeness, nothing else. Like if someone were to come up to me in real life and say something, I wouldn't respond with a blank face.

    I'm very sorry if it came across as anything other than that; it was absolutely unintended. And Allaah is well aware of my intentions. I'll go edit them out since they're giving a meaning other than what they were used for...
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    Do not argue with your Lord on behalf of your soul, rather argue with your soul on behalf of your Lord.” - Dhul-Nun

    "It is the very pursuit of happiness that thwarts happiness." - Victor Frankl

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Zaara View Post
    Oh my -Qatada-, you gave me much to read and I have to go! But I promise, inshaAllah, I'll read this as soon as I return!

    Selam aleykum,


    Secondly, you mean polytheism and worship of idols? When they asked stones and trees etc to grant them favours? Can you please wait until I read what brother -Qatada- has provided until you and I can discuss? JazakAllahu khairun both of you. =)

    Selam aleykum wa rahmetallahu!





    Sorry to give too much info, but just to clear up that misconception - the 'Arabs believed they were upon the religion of Prophet Ibrahim. This is why they did the Hajj rites, circumbulated the Ka'bah, they sacrificed animals, they even had idols of Prophet Ibrahim, this is seen through the time when the Prophet sal Allahu alayhi waSalam broke the idols during the opening of Makkah.

    But what we see from there is that these 'arabs actually believed they were on the true religion of Prophet Ibrahim, but due to their ignorance of the true teachings, and due to them innovating extra things in the religion - they fell astray and started associating partners with Allah in the end.


    Look at what Ibn Abbas, the cousin of the Prophet said:

    Sahih Al Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 442: Narrated Ibn Abbas:

    All the idols which were worshipped by the people of Noah were worshipped by the Arabs later on. As for the idol Wadd, it was worshipped by the tribe of Kalb at Daumat-al-Jandal; Suwa' was the idol of (the tribe of) Murad and then by Ban, Ghutaif at Al-Jurf near Saba; Yauq was the idol of Hamdan, and Nasr was the idol of Himyr, the branch of Dhi-al-Kala.'

    The names (of the idols) formerly belonged to some pious men of the people of Noah, and when they died Satan inspired their people to (prepare and place idols at the places where they used to sit, and to call those idols by their names. The people did so, but the idols were not worshipped till those people (who initiated them) had died and the origin of the idols had become obscure, whereupon people began worshipping them.


    So we see that these idols which the people worshiped were actually the graves of pious people! Then they gradually got transformed into idols. How do we know? It may be that if we don't stop people from praying to the passed away pious people today, people in the future - when ignorance prevails - will start taking these graves and transforming them into idols and forming a totally new religion? Like the people before us did?


    In Islam, it is our duty to stop a greater evil from taking place. And as me and bro 'Ubaydullah have seen, by going to Pakistan and India, ignorant people actually prostrate to these graves of the pious people... that might just be one of the reasons why we're so against it.



    And Allah knows best.

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'



    Originally Posted by - Qatada -
    ...by going to Pakistan and India, ignorant people actually prostrate to these graves of the pious people...
    Yeh I've seen that as well and I totally disagree with it.

    But I don't get how saying Ya Rasool Allaah is wrong
    (Don't give me massive fatwa's please, explain in simple english)

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    format_quote Originally Posted by Muj4h1d4 View Post




    Yeh I've seen that as well and I totally disagree with it.

    But I don't get how saying Ya Rasool Allaah is wrong
    (Don't give me massive fatwa's please, explain in simple english)




    I think it's basically because of what we been discussing, that it can gradually lead to that greater evil. Allahu a'lam.

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    format_quote Originally Posted by - Qatada - View Post
    There's nothing wrong with following scholars, since they are alive in this world and we can benefit from them.

    Again, there are many narrations where the companions asked the Messenger of Allah to pray for rain. Even many other prayers, however - after he passed away - they stopped asking him, and from the hadith quoted above [from sahih al bukhari] - it becomes clear that they stopped asking him to pray for them after he passed away. That was their clear understanding of the issue.

    So it becomes clear that its not forbidden to ask a pious person - who is alive in this world to pray for you. However, once he has passed away - you should not ask them to pray for you since you are calling to them in a supernatural way and expecting them to hear you, although they are in another life now [i.e. the barzakh - the barrier between this life and the next.]
    Selam aleykum wa rahmetallahu wa barakathu brother -Qatada-,

    Ahaa! OK, I get it, elhamdulillah. I just thought I should say what I think out loud, better to get some opinions.


    format_quote Originally Posted by - Qatada - View Post

    Look at what Ibn Abbas, the cousin of the Prophet said:

    Sahih Al Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 442: Narrated Ibn Abbas:


    All the idols which were worshipped by the people of Noah were worshipped by the Arabs later on. As for the idol Wadd, it was worshipped by the tribe of Kalb at Daumat-al-Jandal; Suwa' was the idol of (the tribe of) Murad and then by Ban, Ghutaif at Al-Jurf near Saba; Yauq was the idol of Hamdan, and Nasr was the idol of Himyr, the branch of Dhi-al-Kala.'


    The names (of the idols) formerly belonged to some pious men of the people of Noah, and when they died Satan inspired their people to (prepare and place idols at the places where they used to sit, and to call those idols by their names. The people did so, but the idols were not worshipped till those people (who initiated them) had died and the origin of the idols had become obscure, whereupon people began worshipping them.
    Oh, OK. I must've confused something - My knowledge is dusted these days, subhanAllah.

    BarakAllahu feek!
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    If only I had checked myself
    Guy who wrecked himself

    True leaders don't create followers...
    .... They create new leaders.

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim View Post
    im in agreement with ubaydullaah here Alhamdulillaah.

    Even if its not shirk to say Ya-Rasulullaah, it most certainly can lead to it, and just for that reason we take the "prevention is better then cure">

    its one of the reasons i dont listen to naats at all anymore...


    Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullaah
    are you saying that listening to a naat with "ya rasul Allah" (it's quite common) can lead to shirk? how so?
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
    question authority
    image06 1 - Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'


    when/where did all this differing come from concerning this matter?
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    ...desperate for husnul-khitaam...


    please make dua that Allah grants me a good end (to my life). please make dua that Allah guides me.


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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'



    interesting topic, i've been having this discussion with some of the Imam's at the Masjid.

    Blilaal Philips speak to it here, but ALOT of brothers disagree. this is a piece called shirk in Tahashud:

    http://www.youtubeislam.com/view_vid...f06d57432016ce

    opinions?

    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    Had the non-believer known of all the Mercy which is in the Hands of Allah, he would not lose hope of entering Paradise, and had the believer known of all the punishment which is present with Allah, he would not consider himself safe from the Hell-Fire
    http://www.muftimenk.co.za/Downloads.html

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    Re: Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    maryam11,
    don't forget this, because i'm curious.
    sis, i remeber my mum telling me about it a while back about the types of 'yaa' in arabic and inshallah i havnt misunderstood so i'll touble check with her, and have it posted it up later, inshallah.
    with the strong prohibition against shirk, i think most muslims have no confusion at all about the fact that the prophet was a man and not a diety, whether they say "ya muhammad" or not.
    Supplicating: 'O Messenger of Allaah!'

    each man thinks of his own fleas as gazelles
    question authority
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