Peace be upon yall.
Just so we have some peace of mind from these statments we can take a look at 3 of them. This is from research and hardly anything is my own 'new work' so May The G-d of Abraham, Guide the Christians who have worked hard to get closer to truth and Bless both Christians and Muslims who have earnestly and honestly worked for only G-d.
Now it is stated:
1. Isaiah 9:6 is one of the most powerful proofs that Jesus is God: "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father The Prince of Peace." The terms child and son refer to the Incarnation or manifestation of "The mighty God" and "The everlasting Father."
Now there are many approaches that cane be taken, First and foremost we can for the sake of arguement agree this is Jesus, thought hardly much indicates that but a preconditioned mind.
One point, never did Jesus have a goverment, Jesus explictly said 'My kingdom is not of this world' and 'Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's' (John 18:36 and Matthew 22:21)
To go on, we see for some reason the words used are Might G-d and not Almighty G-d. I would advise you to read the Hebrew word for Mighty, from my research it is 'Gibbowr' people may thing its a little thing but in reality it isn't because..if you check what this word can be translated as it ranges from
1. strong, mighty n m
2. strong man, brave man, mighty man
"
Source "
So this Gibbowr is a word which can be used for men, and we see now why Isaiah hasnt used ALMIGHTY which is only for G-d alone.
Also, lets look at the word here translated as G-d, El, this is famous, come on, this Refers to G-d but men too, you should know, any Christian knows what the Bible claims Jesus said on the Cross, Eli Eli... and people thought he was calling to a Man.
Also we see the bible uses this El, in single and plural to talk about Men.
Exodus 7:1 1And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
Here it is the plural used to show Moses' position over Pharoe.
1. (plural)
1. rulers, judges
2. divine ones
3. angels
4. gods
2. (plural intensive - singular meaning)
1. god, goddess
2. godlike one
3. works or special possessions of God
4. the (true) God
5. God
Source
Also, In Psalsm 82:1 it says 'God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.' with the word El
Source
This El aparently carries the meaning of:
1. god, god-like one, mighty one
1. mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes
2. angels
3. god, false god, (demons, imaginations)
4. God, the one true God, Jehovah
2. mighty things in nature
3. strength, power
Source
Now after all that we can also look at the other terms such as 'Everlasting Father'
Now some example of the term everlasting or forever used with regards to people in the Bible:
Ezekiel 37:25And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant
David shall be their prince for ever.
And the term father.
Genesis 45:8 So now it was not you that sent me hither, but God: and he hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and a ruler throughout all the land of Egypt.
Job 29:16 I was a father to the poor: and the cause which I knew not I searched out.
Again this is a simple mistake of people taking things out of a vacuum, the language used was clear to the Jews the recipients, Almighty to them was much more than just Mighty so with the world El and YHWH. It would be like me writing a letter saying, 'your an angel and a prince' and someone in another country centruies later reading it taking it in a vacuum without the understanding of my time and saying 'look, see his friend was an angel with wings from heaven and a prince of heaven' see what I mean?
Plus, I would like to state that this Prophecy says, "name shall be called" so these are names, not what the person is, There is a difference between someone being called, G-d's strenght and actually them being G-d's real strenght. This propechy was only saying this persons names, it doesn't say 'He WILL BE MIGHT GOD'.
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
2. Isaiah prophesied that the Messiah would be called Immanuel, that is, God with us (Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:22-23).
Again, This was a name, this states 'he will be called', its a name.
I have also answered this before:
Matthew 1:32 - 23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
My Response: Ok, Emmanuel meaning G-d is with us. How does this mean Jesus is G-d? Because Jesus is going to be with them, that means Jesus is G-d since Jesus is with them? This is scripture read within the context of scripture.
Luke 1:27 - 27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary. 28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29 And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
Does this now mean that G-d was with her in human form and that he was right there, because it says ‘the Lord is with thee’??? Just as Emmanuel is G-d is with us?
(Just as an extra thing, read a little on and see: 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David’
‘He, talking about Jesus, shall be great, and, Jesus, shall be called Son of the Highest: and the Lord G-d shall give him..,’ So The Lord G-d is going to give Jesus something, now if you believe Jesus is G-d, you will believe: The Lord G-d is going to Give The Lord God something. (Mark says, Follow G-d with all your mind)
So I ask, when the angel said G-d is with you, was G-d with Mary in physical form, I think not, I believe he meant in favor, since he did say ‘you have found favor with the Lord. This is echoed in Biblical talk, look at Exodus 17:7 - 7 And he called the name of the place Massah and Mer'ibah, because of the faultfinding of the children of Israel, and because they put the LORD to the proof by saying, "Is the LORD among us or not?"
Did they mean literally? Or were they asking if he was in favor of them, if he was supporting them? I urge yall to read it. Also view the book of Numbers 14:42 and 43 - 42 Go not up, for the LORD is not among you; that ye be not smitten before your enemies. 43 For the Amalekites and the Canaanites are there before you, and ye shall fall by the sword: because ye are turned away from the LORD, therefore the LORD will not be with you.
The reason here is given: the LORD will not be with you because you turned away from Him. Was He physically with them? Or was he with them in favor and blessings?
Look at wars, for examples, Muslims probably believe G-d is with them, and so do Jews, have either of them seen Him? Nope. Yet they believe he is with them.
And I will ask you to just show us where Jesus was called Immanuel, if there isn't a place where he was then I mean, isn't that an unfufilled prophecy?
Plus we can go into it from another angle, which others have:
The verse quoted is: 14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Any one who has studied at school, by the Grace of The Most High, will tell you that when a verse starts with 'Therefore', it is more than likely connected with the previous.
Read the CONTEXT:
Verse 3Then said the LORD unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shearjashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller's field;
4And say unto him, Take heed, and be quiet; fear not, neither be fainthearted for the two tails of these smoking firebrands, for the fierce anger of Rezin with Syria, and of the son of Remaliah.
5Because Syria, Ephraim, and the son of Remaliah, have taken evil counsel against thee, saying,
6Let us go up against Judah, and vex it, and let us make a breach therein for us, and set a king in the midst of it, even the son of Tabeal:
7Thus saith the Lord GOD, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass.
8For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.
9And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is Remaliah's son. If ye will not believe, surely ye shall not be established.
10Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying,
11Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.
12But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD.
13And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?
14Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
This is a whole different topic betwen people.
Another thing, the word virgin here, has been deemed not to be a right translation. Thus the RVS, revised by 30 scholars backed by 50 denomination and so on, changed it to (well I cant find the RVS online but in mine at home it says) ' a young woman' with a foot note saying virgin' hard to let go of old fashions.
Strong's dictionary also says it means:
1. virgin, young woman
1. of marriageable age
2. maid or newly married ++++ There is no instance where it can be proved that this word designates a young woman who is not a virgin. (TWOT)
Source
So we see the attempt here, its basically saying, nowhere does can it be proven that the young woman is not a virgin. Lol what logic.
According to this dictionary this appears in several places, I'll cross-reference to see what the RVS has translated the word in these places:
Genesis 24:43 'young woman'
Exodus 2:8 'girl'
Pslams 68:25 'maidens'
Proverbs 30:19 'maidens'
Solomon 1:3 'maindens
Solomon 6:8 'maidens'
Plus I dont think the NIV also uses Virgin for any of these instances except...you guessed it, Isaiah 7:14, how convinient.
So the RVS shows no virgins for this word, except in the footnote at Isaiah 7:14 I guess we can see, the holding onto old ways.
And maiden is generally used for a young woman or girl, and yes it can mean virgin, since a young woman are.
The arguement comes at the fact that there is a clear cut word for Virgin in the Hebrew and it is only logical that if Isaiah wanted to convey a virgin birth he would have used it.
All the view points are from different aspects, some stronger than the others, but Isaiah 7:14 sure doesnt prove anyone's divinity.
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
3. Isaiah described the Messiah as both a branch out of Jesse (the father of David) and as the root of Jesse (Isaiah 11:1, 10; see also Revelation 22:16). According to the flesh He was a descendant (branch) of Jesse and David, but according to His Spirit He was their Creator and source of life (root). Jesus used this concept to confound the Pharisees when He quoted Psalm 110:1 and asked, in essence, "How could David call the Messiah Lord when the Messiah was to be the son (descendant) of David?" (Matthew 22:41-46).
I will try answer this really quickly.
Jesus had nothing to do with Jesse, because your probably refering to his Geneolgy, lets look at them.
Matthew 1:16 says:16and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Luke 3:23 says: 23Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
So Jesus was not the from the Flesh of Jesse, or Seed of his, since his Mother is not reported to have been, and unless your saying his mother and father came together and formed Jesus which I think would contradict the Bible then your confused.
Jesus had no father Christians tell me, yet he is the Seed of David.
See when you also say 'Jesus used this concept...' I personally think Jesus knew the background of Biblical text, such as the Levitical Songs, so when people misquote things and say 'jesus said look it says 'My Lord said to his Lord' and so on it is showing that you think Jesus has no sense.
I will just paste what a Jewish website says:
"The major prooftext here is verse 1:
Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. (KJV)
This is a perfect example of the old adage "it loses something in the translation." At first glance, this would seem like G-d is talking to Himself. However, this simply is not the case. The name, which KJV capitalizes above, is the designation for the four-letter sacred name of G-d. The "Lord" which is not entirely capitalized above is the Hebrew word "adoni," which means "my master." In modern spoken Hebrew, it is used as one would use the word "sir" in English.
King David, while not allowed to build the Temple, did everything he could to prepare the way for it to be built, and among the things he did was compile the book of Psalms to be sung by the Levites in the Temple. This Psalm was meant to be sung by the Levites, and thus reflects their point of view, for they would call their king "adoni.""
Source
So according to them, this logically refers to Songs which David as their lord, as in sir, told them to sing, so you can imagine the people Singing, 'Almighty G-d told my lord, aka King David'
But even if we still wanna take that this second Lord is Jesus then IT STILL DOES NOT PROVE JESUS IS G-D, it proves Jesus is at a higher more respected place than David, but the term lord does not just mean G-d as others were called lord, and as the site says it can mean Sir and so on.
So even if we take that David called jesus Lord, This doesnt prove Jesus is G-d. Plus Jesus is sitting at Almighty God's right hand TWo DIFFErENT PEOPLE.
Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
Anyhow, this is running my pc slow, keeps freezin and all.
I hope people now see why some can be reluctant at answering all those propositions put forward because they take a while to answer and it can feel antagonising.
All praise be to the G-d of Abraham, peace be upon Abraham.
May Jesus son of Mary be immunie from lies ascribed to him by Anyone, and may peace be upon Both Mary and Jesus.
Any mistakes are mine and please be patient with me and report any mistakes I have done so I may rectify them.
Peace be upon yall
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