508 DEAD in Iraq in 1 week of Fighting

It was showing that the number dead is very negligible compared to many wars. This is not a war for the USA. If we were out for an actual war there would be over 2,000,000 troops in Iraq insead of less than 100,000.

Now it is true that any death is unacceptable. But, this is very far short of what could be if, Bush were given the reins to declare war.

It is bad that he was even given the power to use limited force. But, that is what it is , limited force. The people are very much opposed to this invasion and we are trying to get out ASAP.
 
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Woodrow said:
It was showing that the number dead is very negligible compared to many wars. This is not a war for the USA. If we were out for an actual war there would be over 2,000,000 troops in Iraq insead of less than 100,000.

Now it is true that any death is unacceptable. But, this is very far short of what could be if, Bush were given the reins to declare war.

It is bad that he was even given the power to use limited force. But, that is what it is , limited force. The people are very much opposed to this invasion and we are trying to get out ASAP.
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But in the beginning who wanted this war and thought it would be an easy win like so called Afghanistan( which is similarly as worse as Iraq, just suppressed by the media)
 
just suppressed by the media
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What media you talking about?
I see information about "The Other War" all the time. :thumbs_up
I just don't understand how you can miss it all.
I guess you just don't look because you have convinced yourself that it isn't there. :skeleton:
 
mahdisoldier19 said:
But in the beginning who wanted this war and thought it would be an easy win like so called Afghanistan( which is similarly as worse as Iraq, just suppressed by the media)
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GBW had a personal agenda and now we are paying for it. As bad as the situation is it could have been worse if he had been given war time powers.

We have caused a lot of damage and destruction and we need to get out before we cause more.
 
Woodrow said:
GBW had a personal agenda and now we are paying for it. As bad as the situation is it could have been worse if he had been given war time powers.

We have caused a lot of damage and destruction and we need to get out before we cause more.
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Actually, President Bush had all the war time powers he needed. The size of the invasion force was intended to be small and mobile, which was Rumsfeld's transformation of the armed forces. Bush had all the powers he needed to carry out any battle plan he and the commanders desired. Unfortunately the chose the best one to destroy the Iraqi Army in record time, but the wrong one in dealing with a prolonged occupation.
 
Woodrow said:
I agree with you. But, I have no solution. One part of me says we need to get out of Iraq Yesterday if not sooner. Then I say do we have the right to pull out if we think it will result in the lose of more lives? I don't know. It would be an easy choice if we had an identifiable enemy that did pose a danger to us. But, what we see are people trying to survive and only trying to fight at what they see is hurting them.
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i'm with you - we have created a hideous mess and i have no idea what we should do now. sadly, we didn't give this stuff any thought before we invaded. one thing about dictators - they do hold people together.
we have brought anarchy to iraq and it will quite possibly ignite a regional conflict.
who knows where or when it will end?
 
Why should Iraq remain as it is? It is an artificial creation of british colonists, initial constitution, even it's flag was designed by british. Iraq is a remnant of european colonialism, it only exists for less the 100 years. It bears no historical value to muslims.

The sole existance of Iraq as well as other middle eastern states is a living manifest of a shameful condition Umma finds itself nowadays.

Those petty states should fall along with their useless puppets who should be prosecuted. Insha Allah they will fall, and we'll be united and ruled by Sharia'ah once again.
 
Khan-Ghalgha said:
Why should Iraq remain as it is? It is an artificial creation of british colonists, initial constitution, even it's flag was designed by british. Iraq is a remnant of european colonialism, it only exists for less the 100 years. It bears no historical value to muslims.

The sole existance of Iraq as well as other middle eastern states is a living manifest of a shameful condition Umma finds itself nowadays.

Those petty states should fall along with their useless puppets who should be prosecuted. Insha Allah they will fall, and we'll be united and ruled by Sharia'ah once again.
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you make a valid point - a lot of countries' problems are because they were arbitrarily patched together by the colonialist. in this sense, it could be said that colonialism is a gift that keeps on giving. yes, iraq is indeed a remnant of colonialism.
given that a khalifa is not going to arise tomorrow - what do you suggest for the meantime? and what about the sunni - shia' mess? a regional civil war?
i certainly have no answers. it is a nightmare.
 
you make a valid point - a lot of countries' problems are because they were arbitrarily patched together by the colonialist. in this sense, it could be said that colonialism is a gift that keeps on giving. yes, iraq is indeed a remnant of colonialism.
given that a khalifa is not going to arise tomorrow - what do you suggest for the meantime? and what about the sunni - shia' mess? a regional civil war?
i certainly have no answers. it is a nightmare.
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I see no reason for Iraq to exist any longer. I see no possibility for shia's and sunni's to leave as one nation, I think the point of no return was crossed, Iraq is in fact no more, I see nothing that will bound people as a nation, as Iraqis, never really was actually, it's been imposed on them.

Some kind of confederation might be possible tho, and even that with a tremendous external pressure. In the mean time, sunni's and shia's should be politically separated imho, and maybe reconciliated later, if they still want
 
who should be the one that politically separates sunni and shia'?
do you think the conflict will go regional?
yes, there is no inherent reason for iraq to exist anymore, since it was artificially created in the first place, but where will the bloodshed end? you are no doubt correct tho - iraq no longer exists.
 
snakelegs said:
who should be the one that politically separates sunni and shia'?
do you think the conflict will go regional?
yes, there is no inherent reason for iraq to exist anymore, since it was artificially created in the first place, but where will the bloodshed end? you are no doubt correct tho - iraq no longer exists.
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Bro Peace upon you

The conflict is already regional, the connection between Iraq, Afghanistan,Kashmir, Somalia, Indonesia, Balkins, Chechyna etc list goes on. Since the invasion of Iraq all these Groups have found a way to maintain a connection with each other and share tactics. Anyone who maintains the videos that are shown, understand this connection. For instance, Iran funds the shias, while Saudi Arabia funds the Sunnis. It is these backboard corporations and private companies that fund these groups, fueling more fire.

The only way it will stop, from an Islamic perspective is that the US Must leave Iraq and Afghanistan. Also stop their funding of Israel, which will never happen since every candidate that runs for presidency needs the approval from the Israel Lobbyists. The Insurgents of Sunnis are establishing an Islamic State as the Talibs in Afghanistan are doing the same, as well as Somalia. Then they will invade iran, saudi arabia, in which they will not stop until they establish their Black Flags on the soil of Al Aqsa. If people believe that once the US leaves, let the iraqis deal with it. No this is a wrong mentality, since things will get worse when the US leaves. This way the Sunnis see only the Shias as the problem.

From a Secular view, the United States must maintain peace which will not happen. Therefore sending Iraq to a civil war, in which funding and weaponry will be commonly flowing in through all of Asia and Middle East. So the USA must accept the fact that they have dug the wrong hole, which will Establish a rule based on Sharia.
 
mahdisoldier19 said:
Bro Peace upon you

The conflict is already regional, the connection between Iraq, Afghanistan,Kashmir, Somalia, Indonesia, Balkins, Chechyna etc list goes on. Since the invasion of Iraq all these Groups have found a way to maintain a connection with each other and share tactics. Anyone who maintains the videos that are shown, understand this connection. For instance, Iran funds the shias, while Saudi Arabia funds the Sunnis. It is these backboard corporations and private companies that fund these groups, fueling more fire.
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yes, this is probably true. irony is that it may well be western military industry which will profit.

The only way it will stop, from an Islamic perspective is that the US Must leave Iraq and Afghanistan. Also stop their funding of Israel, which will never happen since every candidate that runs for presidency needs the approval from the Israel Lobbyists. The Insurgents of Sunnis are establishing an Islamic State as the Talibs in Afghanistan are doing the same, as well as Somalia. Then they will invade iran, saudi arabia, in which they will not stop until they establish their Black Flags on the soil of Al Aqsa. If people believe that once the US leaves, let the iraqis deal with it. No this is a wrong mentality, since things will get worse when the US leaves. This way the Sunnis see only the Shias as the problem.[/QUOTE]

interesting perspective and you may very well be correct.

From a Secular view, the United States must maintain peace which will not happen. Therefore sending Iraq to a civil war, in which funding and weaponry will be commonly flowing in through all of Asia and Middle East. So the USA must accept the fact that they have dug the wrong hole, which will Establish a rule based on Sharia.
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that would be supreme irony. since the u.s. is obviously incapable of maintaining peace in either country (as it obviously is), is what we have unleashed by the invasions of these 2 countries irrevokable?
sharia may indeed be established but it would be only arise on rivers of muslim blood.
the situation does appear to be rather hopeless, doesn't it?
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snakelegs said:
yes, this is probably true. irony is that it may well be western military industry which will profit.

The only way it will stop, from an Islamic perspective is that the US Must leave Iraq and Afghanistan. Also stop their funding of Israel, which will never happen since every candidate that runs for presidency needs the approval from the Israel Lobbyists. The Insurgents of Sunnis are establishing an Islamic State as the Talibs in Afghanistan are doing the same, as well as Somalia. Then they will invade iran, saudi arabia, in which they will not stop until they establish their Black Flags on the soil of Al Aqsa. If people believe that once the US leaves, let the iraqis deal with it. No this is a wrong mentality, since things will get worse when the US leaves. This way the Sunnis see only the Shias as the problem.[/QUOTE]

interesting perspective and you may very well be correct.



that would be supreme irony. since the u.s. is obviously incapable of maintaining peace in either country (as it obviously is), is what we have unleashed by the invasions of these 2 countries irrevokable?
sharia may indeed be established but it would be only arise on rivers of muslim blood.
the situation does appear to be rather hopeless, doesn't it?
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Peace be upon you


Islamic Perspective,

When 40,000 Mujahideen fought 200,000 Persians, situation seemed hopeless by the Muslims Won. When 300 Sahaba fought 1000 Mushrikeen, situation hopeless? But they were victorious. The Deen of Allah swt will be established with the blood of the shuhada and the sacrifice of muslims. As those who fight for the Deen and established of the law of Allah swt will allways be victorious.


Secular Perspective,

The situation seems hopeless considering the rate of deaths, but then again, a democratic government would be always a great solution. Why? Since the Kurds and the Shias have all the oil, the Sunnis feel that they will be out of luck, therefore, they wish to conquer Shia territories for economic purposes.
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would the establishment of "the deen" on the corpses of the shia's be considered acceptable?
thanks for your thoughts and the 2 perspectives.
i don't know what to think any more about iraq. all i know for sure, is that the u.s. has made one hideous mess and there is no end in sight. but that is obvious.
 
snakelegs said:
would the establishment of "the deen" on the corpses of the shia's be considered acceptable?
thanks for your thoughts and the 2 perspectives.
i don't know what to think any more about iraq. all i know for sure, is that the u.s. has made one hideous mess and there is no end in sight. but that is obvious.
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Islamic Perspective

Why would it not be? They are the people of bidah, they curse some of the sahaba, and have a complete error of Tauheed and understanding of the Quran and the Sunnah and commit Shirk by visiting Shrines.

Secular Perspective

Offcourse not, the establishment of an Islamic Democratic State should include shias, kurds and sunnis regardless of religious differences.
 
democracy cannot be imposed by force - it must come from within.
what chance is there now? bush has undermined all the democratic reform movements in the mid-east and strengthened the very people he says are our enemies.
and of course, many muslims say that shariah and democracy are incompatible.
 
snakelegs said:
democracy cannot be imposed by force - it must come from within.
what chance is there now? bush has undermined all the democratic reform movements in the mid-east and strengthened the very people he says are our enemies.
and of course, many muslims say that shariah and democracy are incompatible.
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Peace upon you

Finally someone understands!
 
well, i always thought bush and bin laden should be pals - they certainly keep each other well fed. ;D
 
Its very annoying to read these stupid posts of unbelievers how as if they care about deaths in Iraq, or any muslim blood shed or caused to be shed by their sons. Offering us wisdom of high, while killing us with daggers from behind.
 
i have no wisdom to offer from on high or otherwise.
how do you know that all non-believers don't care about the people being killed in iraq? do you think we are all alike? isn't that as stupid as some believing that all muslims are terrorists?
i see no such thing as muslim blood - (or kufr blood either, for that matter) only human blood.
 

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