78 Afghani civillians killed by U.S.

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Keltoi said:
A 'mere increase" in numbers would help the Coalition's combat effectiveness by a large degree. Most of the Marine Recon units are still in Iraq, and they need to be in Afghanistan.
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I read somewhere " Never reinforce failure"
 
Keltoi said:
What failure? Perhaps the Taliban need to heed that advice, not the Coalition.
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Taliban are a legitimate sovereign of that nation. The Coalition are the invaders and occupiers. Where Russians and many others failed, what makes you think these new invaders will succeed? Perhaps the invaders should heed and go back where they came from.
 
islamirama said:
Taliban are a legitimate sovereign of that nation. The Coalition are the invaders and occupiers. Where Russians and many others failed, what makes you think these new invaders will succeed? Perhaps the invaders should heed and go back where they came from.
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If the Taliban are so "legitimate" why did they have to take control of Afghanistan town by town? Why is the threat coming from the mountains of Pakistan and not from the Afghan people themselves? The U.S. experience in Afghanistan is nothing like the Soviet experience. That is for a variety of reasons, but the primary one is that the Taliban insurgency is not seen as a benefit to the Afghan people. Even the Pashtun, who are the ones who supported the Taliban, haven't joined the insurgency to any large extent.
 
Assalamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu

Most of us Muslims are on the sidelines while a few brave talibans are undertaking the blessed jihad to free their country from foreigners. The biggest contribution we should be making is remembering the mujahideen in our prayers, may Allah grant them ultimate success and victory and restore peace and prosperity to the people of Afghanistan and all suffering Muslims (ameen).
 
Fazl Ahmad said:
Most of us Muslims are on the sidelines while a few brave talibans are undertaking the blessed jihad to free their country from foreigners.
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Oddly enough a not insignificant number of those muslims are either fighting the Taliban or simply wishing they would just go away and leave them alone. Whatever the merits, or otherwise, of the conflict (and the original topic of this thread is certainly inexcusable - although the Talifans might want to do a little research on just how many innocent muslim civilians their heroes have killed), the Taliban are one faction among many and represent 'Islam' no more than the others - just as they were when they seized power.
 
Trumble said:
Oddly enough a not insignificant number of those muslims are either fighting the Taliban or simply wishing they would just go away and leave them alone. Whatever the merits, or otherwise, of the conflict (and the original topic of this thread is certainly inexcusable - although the Talifans might want to do a little research on just how many innocent muslim civilians their heroes have killed), the Taliban are one faction among many and represent 'Islam' no more than the others - just as they were when they seized power.
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I think it will be a little difficult for you to sympathize with the Taliban since you are not a Muslim. This is understandable. But I wish to point out that yes there are some misguided Muslims who have taken direct opposition to the taliban and the jihad movement. I believe these people are collaborators, they sided with the foreign invaders against their own Muslim brothers. I think this is a very sad and bitter fact, because Muslims must be united among themselves and should never fight and kill each other. Allah Holy and Exalted is He says in the sacred Quran: Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (to remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah. (aali Imran 3:28)

Part of the reason for the downfall of Muslims is that we have at large abandoned the beautiful and wise teachings of our sacred Quran. True, millions of Muslims constantly recite and memorize the Quran, but there is a great lacking in truly understanding its message and implementing its teachings.
 
Fazl Ahmad said:
But I wish to point out that yes there are some misguided Muslims who have taken direct opposition to the taliban and the jihad movement. I believe these people are collaborators, they sided with the foreign invaders against their own Muslim brothers. I think this is a very sad and bitter fact, because Muslims must be united among themselves and should never fight and kill each other.
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I fully understand that that is your position. I would point out myself, though, that claiming those muslims who oppose the Taliban are 'misguided' can only arise from that point of view; that opinion. To others it is the Taliban who are 'misguided'. Both have used the teachings of the Qur'an to support their position. In my humble opinion that is not even particularly relevant as, however they may choose to portray it, the agenda of the Taliban is primarily political rather than religious. Nothing recruits people to a political cause better than to portray it as religious, as both the Crusades and rather more recnt events in the Middle East have shown.
 
Trumble said:
Nothing recruits people to a political cause better than to portray it as religious, as both the Crusades and rather more recnt events in the Middle East have shown.
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Nothing wrong, if the ultimate intention is to fight against foreign aggression. Hope you don't mind.
 
Fazl Ahmad said:
I think it will be a little difficult for you to sympathize with the Taliban since you are not a Muslim. This is understandable. But I wish to point out that yes there are some misguided Muslims who have taken direct opposition to the taliban and the jihad movement. I believe these people are collaborators, they sided with the foreign invaders against their own Muslim brothers. I think this is a very sad and bitter fact, because Muslims must be united among themselves and should never fight and kill each other. Allah Holy and Exalted is He says in the sacred Quran: Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (to remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah. (aali Imran 3:28)

Part of the reason for the downfall of Muslims is that we have at large abandoned the beautiful and wise teachings of our sacred Quran. True, millions of Muslims constantly recite and memorize the Quran, but there is a great lacking in truly understanding its message and implementing its teachings.
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I agree completely.

I fully understand that that is your position. I would point out myself, though, that claiming those muslims who oppose the Taliban are 'misguided' can only arise from that point of view; that opinion. To others it is the Taliban who are 'misguided'. Both have used the teachings of the Qur'an to support their position. In my humble opinion that is not even particularly relevant as, however they may choose to portray it, the agenda of the Taliban is primarily political rather than religious. Nothing recruits people to a political cause better than to portray it as religious, as both the Crusades and rather more recnt events in the Middle East have shown.
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Its strange isn't it. The US is suddenly so willing to storm into other countries to 'help' the Muslims when it is them that have defamed them and denounced so many of them terrorists.

Maybe the other countries don't want the US to interfere... So many innocents are killed and injured as a result and yet they prevent food and aid from reaching! The number of deaths and casualties is much more than the media is going to portray! Why? In the name of 'peace'.

And are you really sure the Muslims of that country want them there? Are you really?? What are your sources? The Media... Quite interesting isn't it.

I wonder where the Muslims are today. Asleep. Why don't they go and help their brothers???? They're SCARED... We're all going to die one day. Maybe we should chose how.

:w:
 
Rose_Ice said:
Its strange isn't it. The US is suddenly so willing to storm into other countries to 'help' the Muslims when it is them that have defamed them and denounced so many of them terrorists.
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The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq weren't about helping Muslims. Some hoped that would be the end result, but it wasn't the motivation. Now that the "conventional" wars are over and insurgencies remain, the emphasis is more about helping those countries create stability and order. Stability and order is good for both the Coalition and the people of those nations.
Rose_Ice said:
And are you really sure the Muslims of that country want them there? Are you really?? What are your sources? The Media... Quite interesting isn't it.
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Of course "the Muslims" don't want the Coalition in Afghanistan or Iraq. The question is do they want the Taliban or Saddam Hussein back? My hunch would be NO.
 
Keltoi said:
Of course "the Muslims" don't want the Coalition in Afghanistan or Iraq. The question is do they want the Taliban or Saddam Hussein back? My hunch would be NO.
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Your hunch would be wrong then. I posted a news video few months back about an incident in iraq and the civilians saying Iraq was better under saddam. Where saddam allegedly killed 225,000 in 20 years, bush regimed killed over 1 million in just 5 years. Who is the wrost you tell me?

And for Taliban, they too arose to power because of the people asking them to arise against the warlords and chaos that was there. Except for a few liberal secular lunatics, rest of the afghans want Taliban rather then crusaders in their land. War (more like occupation) in afghan and iraq is a loosing battle. When the public is with the "insurgents" (legitimate resistance fighers against a foriegn occupation) then you can't stand there for long, now matter how many covert distraction bombings and "suicide" market attacks you do.
 
ahsan28 said:
Your own media doesn't agree with you.
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What media? The Pashtun make up the majority in Afghanistan, and there are more Pashtuns in the Afghan National Army than all the Taliban, at least as active insurgents.
 
islamirama said:
Your hunch would be wrong then. I posted a news video few months back about an incident in iraq and the civilians saying Iraq was better under saddam. Where saddam allegedly killed 225,000 in 20 years, bush regimed killed over 1 million in just 5 years. Who is the wrost you tell me?

And for Taliban, they too arose to power because of the people asking them to arise against the warlords and chaos that was there. Except for a few liberal secular lunatics, rest of the afghans want Taliban rather then crusaders in their land. War (more like occupation) in afghan and iraq is a loosing battle. When the public is with the "insurgents" (legitimate resistance fighers against a foriegn occupation) then you can't stand there for long, now matter how many covert distraction bombings and "suicide" market attacks you do.
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I find it really difficult to take any of your posts seriously. Let me get this straight...now the Coalition is the one doing the suicide attacks? Sure buddy...keep stirring that Kool-Aid.
 
Keltoi said:
I find it really difficult to take any of your posts seriously. Let me get this straight...now the Coalition is the one doing the suicide attacks? Sure buddy...keep stirring that Kool-Aid.
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plenty of pictures have been posted as well as testimonies from these "suicide" drivers and other articles on the forum, but i guess the blinds will see nothing but what their regime spoon feeds them.
 
Keltoi said:
What media? The Pashtun make up the majority in Afghanistan, and there are more Pashtuns in the Afghan National Army than all the Taliban, at least as active insurgents.
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Do you have accurate figures about Talibans from reliable sources?
 
ahsan28 said:
Do you have accurate figures about Talibans from reliable sources?
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As of 2007 the Afghan National Army boasted 46,000 active troops. That number has obviously increased and is estimated at 76,000 as of 2008.



Here is the official website of the Afghan National Army http://www.mod.gov.af/

As for the Taliban, the highest estimates are 10,000, but more likely only about 3 to 4,000 active insurgents. These numbers are from the Council on Foreign Relations.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/10551/taliban_in_afghanistan.html?breadcrumb=/region/280/afghanistan
 
It would be so nice if people could stay on-topic for longer than approximately four posts.

Translation: This thread is close to lockage. You can save it though! Yes, you, the member reading this! Just make sure what you post comments on the first post and doesn't include irrelevant peripheral information!
 
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