A Christian seeking opinions from Muslims. https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/GNBBQKR

[JaquibWahanna]

Hmmm sensitive

 

[MuslimInshallah]

Regarding Aeesa or Isa alaihi salaam, you wrote , “I am also not sure that Allah made Isa (PBUH) from his mother.----------- it does not necessarily imply a genetic relationship.”
This is a very wrong understanding about Isa alaihi salaam. I am giving evidence from the Holy Qraan and its tafseer that he was from the descendants of Ibraheem alaihi salaam. In the verses 83----86 of chapter 6 ( Al- An’Aam ) of the Holy Quraan Allah gave the names of many prophets who were among the descendants of Ibraheem alaihi Salaam. Hadhrat Maryam and Hadhrat Isa alaihima salaam were from Bani Israel, that is the children of Israel. Israel was the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] name of Yaqoob ( Jacob ) alaihi salaam. He was the grand son of Ibraheem alaihi salaam. If someone claims that Isa alaihi salaam had no genetic relation with Maryam (Mary ), then he either doesn’t know or he denies these verses of the Holy Quraan, (of course, a Muslim shall not deny). Please don’t forget that his genetic relation with Yaqoob (Jac ob), Is-haq, and Ibraheem (ibraham) alaihim salaam is only and only through Maryam ( Mary ) alaiha salaam. In the modern times with Scientific knowledge, we can say that the miracle was as follows:
The usual method of reproduction of a male child is; X + Y genes. Gene X comes from the mother and gene Y comes from the father. In case of Isa alaihi salaam it was only one X gene from the mother and it was easy for Allah to produce him from X gene without the presence of a Y gene. ( Allah knows best the details, I am writing only the details of the modern science, may Allah forgive me). Adam alaihi salaam was created without any type of genes.
About Eve ( Hawa ) alaiha salaam: I remember that I read in a hadeeth Shareef, that she was produced from the left rib of Adam alaihi salaam. (Allah knows best about the saying of HIS Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him)). I am sorry as at present I have no book of hadeeth. Some Muslims have given strange statement about the qualities of woman in general, due to the above hadeeth and they attributed the strange statement to Muhammad salla Allaho alaihi wa sallam. But I will not say anything in this regard. The Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) said that anyone who says something and intentionally attributes it to the Prophet (Allah's Peace and Blessings be upon him) , he makes his place in Hell. This is the translation of a hadeeth in my own words ( and Allah knows best about the hadeeth).

Assalaamu alaikum nbegum,

I appreciate the time and effort you put into this post. And I apologize for not getting back to you earlier. (smile) I have only a limited amount of minutes in my day, alas! And my children have been sick, so…

Regarding genetics, I feel that perhaps this is a field that is not clear for you. I tried looking up some youtube videos for you, that might explain a little how this works, but there were two problems: 1) If you are in Pakistan, you won't be able to see them, and 2) I could not find one that sums everything up simply. I'm afraid you'd have look at several to get a better understanding of the subject.(smile) If you google "meiosis", you can find some interesting videos on the genetics of reproduction.

Essentially, you could not have a functional human being with no genetic code. Not only are genes necessary for reproduction, but they are used every moment you are alive. The genetic code is like a library of recipes of how to do and make everything you need in the human body. When the cell is not dividing, the code is unrolled and available for reference in the nucleus of the living cell. To state that Adam (AS) had no genes is incorrect. It just is not possible. He would need these to live, plus he would need them to transmit to his offspring his share of the information on how to grow and live.

(smile) Furthermore, of the 46 chromosomes that make up the normal human genetic code, the "Y" chromosome is absolutely necessary in order to have a male. And this one chromosome can only come from the father, as only men have this chromosome. If you have only the genetic information from the mother, you could only produce a female child. And this is assuming that the child would be a clone, perhaps. Or that two ova could fuse. Which does not happen, to the best of my knowledge.

Unless you want to say (May Allah Forgive us!) that half of the genetic code came from Maryam (May Allah Be Pleased with her), and the other half from Allah (!!!), I cannot see how you can say that Isa (AS) could genetically be of Maryam! I personally find this line of thought profoundly shocking!

And unnecessary.

I had a look at the passage you quoted (6: 83-86), as well as others in the Qur'an. I'm afraid that this passage does not actually prove your point. It could be pointed out that Lut (AS) was not a descendant of Ibrahim (AS), though he was a relative. I read several ayat on the creation of Isa (AS), and I cannot see how I am incorrect on stating that Allah said "Be!" and Isa came into being, in the same way that Allah said "Be!" and Adam (AS) came into being. However, I have not done a complete search of all the passages in the Qur'an and the ahadith, so I cannot as yet analyze this in depth.

But I would like to point out that, in Arabic, a person may be referred to as a "father", yet actually be an uncle or a grandfather, or other male ancestor. And, to the best of my knowledge, in Islam, the "mother" is the person who bore the child. Which is why, if a woman has a surrogate child, Islamically, the child would be considered hers, not the genetic mother's. At least, I have heard this said before (in a lecture) in the context of reproductive technologies.

It is therefore my understanding that Isa (AS) would be considered the child of Maryam, even if he was not her genetic child. And his male relatives on his mother's side would be considered his male ancestors.

(smile) But if anyone has further information on this topic, I am very open to considering it.

(smile) Regarding the ahadith about woman and the rib. I think I found the source of the confusion. I looked up on sunnah.com the ahadith on this. And there are essentially two versions transmitted. One says that Woman is like a rib (the prefix "ka" is used, which means "similar to") and the other says that she was created from a rib (the preposition "min" is used, which means "coming from, out of"). Interestingly, Adam (AS) is not mentioned in the ahadith that I saw. The rest of the text is consistent, and the message is one about not trying to force women into being that which they are not. The text is not concerned with the creation of women. I incline, therefore, to the understanding that the original discourse was aimed at teaching men who get frustrated with women being different from themselves, and thinking to try to make women act and think like themselves. And therefore, that the simile is the more correct understanding. And as I have read in the past (sorry, I no longer know where I read this, and this part of my library is not accessible to me at present), the Christian and Jewish stories about the creation of woman from the rib of Adam being well-known in the early days of Islam, they may well have influenced the understanding of this teaching story.

(smile) Anyway, thank you nbegum for this fruitful discussion. While I feel I still have things to learn on these topics, I feel that this discussion has caused me to learn more. (big smile) And I love to learn!

May Allah, the High, Who Knows, Guide us in our efforts to understand.

 

[MuslimInshallah]

I accidentally posted the same post twice.

 

[MuslimInshallah]

Assalamu Alaykum MuslimInshallah



It seems like concept of 'Alam al Khalq (World of Creation) and 'Alam al-'Amr (the World of Command) is unknown to you.This is why you mixed two things separate in nature,interestingly,they are the one which make a Human being "Insaan",from best of stature to lowest of the low.I am really busy these days so will explain whenever I get time or maybe someone else will come to shed some light on this subject Inshaa Allah.

Assalaamu alaikum Signor,

(smile) Thank you for the links. I did have a look at them. However, I must say that I prefer primary (such as Qur'an and ahadith) or secondary (scholarly) sources. I find these more reliable and intellectually satisfying.

(gleam of interest) The discourse about the World of Command vs Creation sounds fascinating. If you wish to give me a few pointers, I would appreciate that. But if you are too busy, I can research it myself over time. From what I understand, this is way of understanding Revelation. Even if I do not fully agree with a particular interpretation of Revelation, I find that each new way of looking at Allah's Words adds richness of understanding. Like the Sufi story of the mice exploring the elephant in the dark, each heart that seeks to understand comes away with a little bit of understanding, but never even comes close to the whole. But the more mice we listen to, it seems to me, the more we could perhaps understand.


May Allah, the Sublime, Forgive us if we misunderstand, and Guide us to better understandings.