A debate for all....

[root]

until it is proven, it is still a theory

Perhaps you should firmiliarise yourself to what a theory actually represents:

Theory - A set of statements or principles devised to explain a group of facts or phenomena, especially one that has been repeatedly tested or is widely accepted and can be used to make predictions about natural phenomena.

Next time you hear a child being taught that when he drops a stone and it falls to the ground that Gravity is pushing the stone to the ground you can jump right in and say "Ah, but the theory of general relativity is still a theory, until it is proven".

evolution theory says that the animals with poor genes die out and the stronger survives.

I don't accept your point at all. Firstly, evolution is not just about survival of the fittest or most adaptive. Survival of the luckiest is also a strong evolutionary force, the dinasaurs were not weak or less adaptive. Unlucky for them that they were taken to extinction by a massive meteorite strike. Using terms such as "poor genes" is far too genarel statement.

i dont see how a mammal evolves from a reptile and why did it evolve... u can say it was adaption to the environment, but what does environment have to do with reptiles and mammals?

The environment had everything to do with it. By the end of the cretacious period we can identify 15 mammal families were in existence, at the end of this period came another mass extinction (The K-T Event) which wiped out all dinasaurs including the winged reptiles Pterosaurs, All these species dying out left huge niche vacancies in the habitat. Following this disaster it was the mammals alone of the remaining groups of animals who diversified to take advantage of this new situation. Over the next 15 million years the remaining 10 mammal families (five became extinct with the dinosaurs during the K-T event) expanded to become 78 families by the early Eocene. The number of genera increased from about 40 to over 200 during the same time. This sudden massive increase in species from a single stem group is an example of what is called 'adaptive radiation'.

When reptiles move into new niches and evolve by adapting to a new niche, eventually they reach a point that they can no longer interbreed with thier own group that was left behind, this important milestone has now been proven as the first evolutionary step to "branching" off from one species to another. This isolation of species and adaptation can occur for a number of reasons, and is now proven to be true.

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...evolution.html

why r there both mammals and reptiles in certain areas if reptiles evolved into mammals due to the environment?

Reptiles remaining within a given habitat won't evolve a great deal, reptiles moving into new vacant niches will, just like the bull frog is evolving right now: Further proof of adapttion to new niches:

http://www.islamicboard.com/comparat...nightmare.html

the theory of evolution completely denies the existence of God. if evolution cannot explain how the first life form came into being, then the theory itself is & remains defeated

That is like saying if the theory of general relativity cannot explain the Big Bang then it remains defeated. Your assumption here is simply because you don't understand what the evolution theory covers that you claim it is defeated, others would call that living in ignorance.

 

[Lush]

Hmmm.

Well, personally, my belief in evolution never clashed with my belief in God. I guess I always thought that evolution was God's tool. My mother, on the other hand, she'd give you an earful on the subject! :giggling: We debate with her all the time. Then I call her a crazy Christian fundie, and head for bed...

 

[Cheb]

Hmmm.

Well, personally, my belief in evolution never clashed with my belief in God. I guess I always thought that evolution was God's tool. My mother, on the other hand, she'd give you an earful on the subject! :giggling: We debate with her all the time. Then I call her a crazy Christian fundie, and head for bed...

Yup me neither. I really see no reason why we cant believe in evolution and God. They do not contradict each other. I think people dont want to believe in evolution because they only "fear" that it may be contradicting their belief in God. I think they should study it more and see that it really does exist.

 

[root]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lush
Hmmm.

Well, personally, my belief in evolution never clashed with my belief in God. I guess I always thought that evolution was God's tool. My mother, on the other hand, she'd give you an earful on the subject! We debate with her all the time. Then I call her a crazy Christian fundie, and head for bed...

Yup me neither. I really see no reason why we cant believe in evolution and God. They do not contradict each other. I think people dont want to believe in evolution because they only "fear" that it may be contradicting their belief in God. I think they should study it more and see that it really does exist.

I agree with these points, and applaud you. People would do well to remember that evolution only describes how life evolved. The biggest mystery is still how life began and I think we will get an answer to that within my lifetime. However, far from answering the question it will raise more questions than answers, personally I think Panspermia will eventually win the day.

 

[Cheb]

I agree with these points, and applaud you. People would do well to remember that evolution only describes how life evolved. The biggest mystery is still how life began and I think we will get an answer to that within my lifetime. However, far from answering the question it will raise more questions than answers, personally I think Panspermia will eventually win the day.

Thanks...but you were joking about Panspermia right?:? :rollseyes :skeleton:

 

[root]

Thanks...but you were joking about Panspermia right?

Pamspermia - It holds that life on Earth was seeded from space, and that life's evolution to higher forms depends on genetic programs that come from space. (It accepts the Darwinian account of evolution that does not require new genetic programs.) It is a wholly scientific, testable theory for which evidence is accumulating.

Recent exploration, (deep impact & stardust) is giving us a greater understanding and the probability grows from strength to strength. Science works on probabilities, my money is on cosmic ancestory itself or at the very least the raw materials being formed and delivered in space.

I will even give you religous creationists a break, the deep impact probe detected "clay" in the comet of deep impacts target and I know how much Islam regards creation from clay? Amino-acids (fundamental to the building blocks of life) were found and a considerable ammount of water. Everything apparantly life would require. Additionally, the good old ("classed as non living") virus has recently been implecated as having a big role in the cosmic spread of life, don't look to the past for answers, look to the here and now?

Deep Impact

http://deepimpact.jpl.nasa.gov/press/pr-latest.html

This is information that is brand new to mankind, I find that quite spectacular........

Results from the first studies of cometary samples returned to Earth by NASA's Stardust spacecraft is the subject of a news conference at 3 p.m. EST, Monday, March 13, from NASA's Johnson Space Center, Houston

Landing on valentines day, the first cosmic particle was heart shaped (is this a miracle Just think about the odds that on valentines day the first particle was heart shaped!!!

 

[Christian_dove]

Well i think we came from chimps/apes.

Why haven't chimps evolved into humans... well because of there environment of course. Why do you think blacks have dark skin and whites have light skin... because of there evironment!

Yeah, but the difference in skin (and other things) between white/dark people is less than 0,01 % of our genes.. Therefor there is not much of a difference.. The difference between man and ape, however... Is slightly more...

Maybe we came from a mix between neandertals and aliens. ;D

Well, okay, it was merely a suggestion...

 

[j4763]

Yeah, but the difference in skin (and other things) between white/dark people is less than 0,01 % of our genes.. Therefor there is not much of a difference.. The difference between man and ape, however... Is slightly more...

Maybe we came from a mix between neandertals and aliens. ;D

Well, okay, it was merely a suggestion...

Yeah the difference is 1% between man and ape. Man has only walked the earth for approx 160,000 years yet in that time there's been 0,01% change. But apes have been around between 22 million and 5.5 million years so gives plenty of time to evolve more.

 

[The Ruler]

^ yes bul if u say dat UV rays caused da genes to ulter...science has proven dat the ozone layer is becumin thinner day by day...n so more UV rays r reaching the earth. therefore, say 22 million years ago, think about how think the ozone layer was?! as a recult less UV rays reched the surface of the earth causing LESS mutation.

 

[Mainul_Islam]

Yup me neither. I really see no reason why we cant believe in evolution and God. They do not contradict each other. I think people dont want to believe in evolution because they only "fear" that it may be contradicting their belief in God. I think they should study it more and see that it really does exist.

brother...

evolution contradicts Judiasm, Christianity, AND Islam--saying that our ancestors were apes and not Adam & Eve

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

brother...

evolution contradicts Judiasm, Christianity, AND Islam--saying that our ancestors were apes and not Adam & Eve

That's not the same as contradicting belief in god though, is it?

I think Cheb is right - you can believe in both creationism and evolution. If you believe in god, then it's possible god created the universe and used evolution as the method of developing life forms.

Peace

 

[Cheb]

brother...

evolution contradicts Judiasm, Christianity, AND Islam--saying that our ancestors were apes and not Adam & Eve

Come on now that is not what evolution is about. We can still believe in evolution AND the fact that we came from Adam and Eve or Hawwa. See I dont believe that we were apes, and neither do most people either. That is actually a misconception.
Anyway the first humans were Adam and Eve and we have evolved from them. It is likely that we have not evolved too much because we may not have been on this earth for more than a few hundred thousand years. As for other creatures that have been here since life began, it is impossible that they did not evolve or they would not have survived. Creatures evolve out of necessity. God uses evolution to insure that there will be enough life on this planet. Remember evolution does not only apply for humans, and there are only a few misinformed people that believe that we evolved from apes.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings Cheb,

I agree with your point earlier, as I said, but I'm a bit confused by your understanding of evolution.

Come on now that is not what evolution is about. We can still believe in evolution AND the fact that we came from Adam and Eve or Hawwa. See I dont believe that we were apes, and neither do most people either. That is actually a misconception.

Humans are actually classified by biologists as being apes, i.e., we are apes now.

Ape

Anyway the first humans were Adam and Eve and we have evolved from them.

In what way have we evolved from them? I thought Adam and Eve were meant to be humans in every respect.

It is likely that we have not evolved too much because we may not have been on this earth for more than a few hundred thousand years.

And before that...?

Remember evolution does not only apply for humans, and there are only a few misinformed people that believe that we evolved from apes.

Right. We didn't evolve from them, we share a common ancestor with them.

Peace

 

[Cheb]

Greetings

In what way have we evolved from them? I thought Adam and Eve were meant to be humans in every respect.



And before that...?

Humans still evolved after Adam and Eve. We are smaller, live shorter lives, and have different colors to suit our environment. We evolve just like all animals and plants do. However so far we have the least need to evolve than all other living things. We adapt using artificial means now which will greatly slow down our evolution.
Before Adam and Eve was all other life. Dinosaurs, apes, etc.

 

[root]

^ yes bul if u say dat UV rays caused da genes to ulter...science has proven dat the ozone layer is becumin thinner day by day...n so more UV rays r reaching the earth. therefore, say 22 million years ago, think about how think the ozone layer was?! as a recult less UV rays reched the surface of the earth causing LESS mutation.

Mutation due to UV only represents a small occurance. Mutations mainly occur during where the genome is copied during reproduction (Vertical Transfer Mutations). Additionally mutations also occur from one organism to another (Horizontal Transfer).

Thier is no evidence to support your hypothosis that mutation rates are in decline within the human species or any other species.

J4763 - Yeah the difference is 1% between man and ape. Man has only walked the earth for approx 160,000 years yet in that time there's been 0,01% change. But apes have been around between 22 million and 5.5 million years so gives plenty of time to evolve more.

I would be interested in your statistical data. Man is proven to have been on the earth 40,000 years earlier than you are stating

Source:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4269299.stm

I think your other data is questionable to, since are you classing "apes" as part of new world monkeys or indeed old world monkeys which were our closest ancestors before the rise of the ape? Can you provide a source for your figures please out of interest

 

[root]

Humans still evolved after Adam and Eve. We are smaller, live shorter lives,

Are you able to provide any scientific source to support this claim?

We evolve just like all animals and plants do. However so far we have the least need to evolve than all other living things.

This is not true, if you think it is please provide your source.

We adapt using artificial means now which will greatly slow down our evolution.

Same as above, sources please for this far fetched claim

Before Adam and Eve was all other life. Dinosaurs, apes, etc.

So what date did Adam & eve exist, and can I have the source where apes and dinosaurs co-existed.

 

[j4763]

Mutation due to UV only represents a small occurance. Mutations mainly occur during where the genome is copied during reproduction (Vertical Transfer Mutations). Additionally mutations also occur from one organism to another (Horizontal Transfer).

Thier is no evidence to support your hypothosis that mutation rates are in decline within the human species or any other species.



I would be interested in your statistical data. Man is proven to have been on the earth 40,000 years earlier than you are stating

Source:http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4269299.stm

Ok 40,000 years early than i stated, still a lot less than primates have been around.

I think your other data is questionable to, since are you classing "apes" as part of new world monkeys or indeed old world monkeys which were our closest ancestors before the rise of the ape? Can you provide a source for your figures please out of interest

I guess i should use perhaps the word primate? Cant find the source (somewhere on google), but the point is humans have evolved in the little time we've been here.

 

[root]

Agreed;

200.000 years proven presence of Homo-sapiens

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Humans still evolved after Adam and Eve. We are smaller, live shorter lives, and have different colors to suit our environment.

I second root's request for evidence to back up the claim that Adam and Eve had longer lives than we do now. In fact our lifespans have increased due to advances in medicine.

Before Adam and Eve was all other life. Dinosaurs, apes, etc.

Apes are still around, of course. Does the fact that the dinosaurs became extinct around 65 million years ago help to pinpoint the time frame when Adam and Eve lived?

Also, for the record, could you say whether you accept biologists' classification of humans as belonging to the ape family?

Peace

 

[sevenxtrust]

Personally, I think if evolution was true people would still be walking out of the woods, and there would be no Monkeys left. But I do believe in Micro evolution..huge difference.