A jewish person moving to Israel

[Afg]

Not wanting to take this thread off topic, but it reminded me of something I came across on our trip to Germany this week.
All across German cities they have placed pavement plaques (named 'stumbling blocks') outside the houses from which Jewish families were taken during WWII.
A powerful visual reminder of Germany's cruel past.

Perhaps we need similar reminders in Palestine.

Who are they?

Yes we need similar reminders in Palestine

 

[Woodrow]

Not wanting to take this thread off topic, but it reminded me of something I came across on our trip to Germany this week.
All across German cities they have placed pavement plaques (named 'stumbling blocks') outside the houses from which Jewish families were taken during WWII.
A powerful visual reminder of Germany's cruel past.

Perhaps we need similar reminders in Palestine.

That would be a good first step.

 

[JaffaCake]

Hmm, this birth right concept wasn’t exactly what i was aiming at, so im not sure that your conclusions are right. All i was saying was that the Palestinians, since they are in the authority- have the right to choose who enters their lands etc.

However, Being in authority of a land does not denote that one has inhabited it illegally. Not everyone who is in authority on land fought the original inhabitants and took over.

You speak of the 'authority' that people have over some land, and the rights this grants them to decide who comes and go. You say you don't agree that the authority is gained by virtue of being born on this land, so where does this authority come from?

How so? Going by your logic, i have the right to to steal your property and claim it as my own and then make myself look like the victim. but any sound intellect rejects that notion-and rightfully so!

That's not what I'm saying at all, but I really need to hear your response to the above before I continue with this bit.

 

[sister herb]

Ï agree with the idea of glo. Then what it would feel for jew moving from some other country to house stolen from Palestinian owner, if he would see every day name of the original owner of house on the wall.

 

[zakirs]

You speak of the 'authority' that people have over some land, and the rights this grants them to decide who comes and go. You say you don't agree that the authority is gained by virtue of being born on this land, so where does this authority come from?

The authority comes from modern land laws .. Capitalism as you may say, A person has a right to say a land which is on his name to be his and if you violate that you are violating the law.I guess violating the law of a land is also a sin ?


Remember No body can certainly say this land is his ( all the earth and the heavens belong to GOD) .. but you have to accept a treaty which is unconsiously accepted over the whole world ( which is the right to one's assigned,bought land).What if I say my religion says i have the right to occupy america and start driving people out of USA ? ... you would say i am mad..

 

[sister herb]

This is one way how zionists get new houses for jews whose move to occupied Palestine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-Rcp3vWNUs&feature=player_embedded

Full story: http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2009/10/28/tipping-balance-east-jerusalem

And this is how they prevent Palestinians to build and keep they houses:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY0CYNhTTbM&feature=player_embedded

:hmm:

In the West Bank zionists get "legal" right to some needed areas (for new settlements) just declaring them as "closed military areas" and then open them to jews-only-areas. Other one is they prevent farmers to reach they lands for some years, then use old laws from British era and claim these areas are not agricultured and "state" can take them for common using - and then give them to jews-only-areas, to zionist settlers.

 

[glo]

Who are they?

I don't know the family, but they all died in the concentration camp in Riga (Latvia).
The children were 4 and 6 years old.

The top plaque reads:
Here lived Rebecca Sonja Beutel
Born 1915
Deported 1941
Murdered in Riga

 

[glo]

Ï agree with the idea of glo. Then what it would feel for jew moving from some other country to house stolen from Palestinian owner, if he would see every day name of the original owner of house on the wall.

The stones are named 'stumbling blocks', and they have caused some controversy and debate for the reasons you mentioned.
Suddenly people may have to ask and wonder how some houses came to become the property of German people, and whether they belonged to Jewish families before the war ...

 

[sister herb]

The stones are named 'stumbling blocks', and they have caused some controversy and debate for the reasons you mentioned.
Suddenly people may have to ask and wonder how some houses came to become the property of German people, and whether they belonged to Jewish families before the war ...

Thank you SISTER glo. As thinking destiny of other people is the first step to understand humanity.

 

[JaffaCake]

What if I say my religion says i have the right to occupy america and start driving people out of USA ? ... you would say i am mad..

I wouldn't say you were mad, it's essentially the whole basis for this argument.

The authority comes from modern land laws ..

Of course they do now, but that's just a group of people deciding what people can and can't do with the land. What's the difference between that and me deciding that the land is mine?

 

[zakirs]

I wouldn't say you were mad, it's essentially the whole basis for this argument.

Its as simple as this , tommorow i come to your house and drive you out saying this is my promised house.What would you do ?

 

[JaffaCake]

Call the police?

You're missing the point a little. What right do I have to claim this house and land is mine? If I bought it from someone else, what right did they have to claim it?

If you go back far enough, all ownership stems from someone either finding an empty piece of land and building on it, or taking it from someone else. Nobody has absolute rights over land because there are no absolute rights to give, only some rights that we agree on. If someone else wants that land then you'll just have to fight over it or come to an agreement.

 

[zakirs]

Call the police?

You're missing the point a little. What right do I have to claim this house and land is mine? If I bought it from someone else, what right did they have to claim it?

If you go back far enough, all ownership stems from someone either finding an empty piece of land and building on it, or taking it from someone else. Nobody has absolute rights over land because there are no absolute rights to give, only some rights that we agree on. If someone else wants that land then you'll just have to fight over it or come to an agreement.

Yes but i would call that fight an oppression when you violate the laws of the international acceptance. Lets face it , you did not own your house before a 1000 years so can we fight each other over it ? .. Common bro life is a lot more than fighting each other. Peace comes from adjusting and respecting each other , not being greedy and persecuting others .

All in good faith.Peace.

 

[Supreme]

I do believe Jews should be able to live in the Middle East; however, I don't believe the current banner 'Israel' is the right way to go about it. Both Jews and Arabs have a legitmate claim to the land. But Israel is currently an evil state and is not the answer.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you JaffaCake;

Nobody has absolute rights over land because there are no absolute rights to give,

I would think for practicing Jews and Muslims, they would both understand that all land belongs to God, we are but temporary custodians.

In the spirit of praying for justice for all people

Eric

 

[JaffaCake]

I would think for practicing Jews and Muslims, they would both understand that all land belongs to God, we are but temporary custodians.

Hi, I appreciate what you're saying but I was hoping to keep the big man out of it for the time being. As far as I know he doesn't intervene directly in property disputes, and very few people tend to think "ah well.. I was only borrowing it" when their house is being bulldozed.

Yes but i would call that fight an oppression when you violate the laws of the international acceptance.

What if I do not agree with international laws? When I am forced to do something simply because some other people say so, is that not oppression?

 

[zakirs]

What if I do not agree with international laws? When I am forced to do something simply because some other people say so, is that not oppression?

Why is it an oppression , if you so wanted to go live near jerusalem buy land and go there legally.Why would one drive people out of their homes ? Don't push you inability to negotiate and buy land to term it as oppression.What oppression do you have anyway you have your home in what ever country you are , you probably are eating well and have a job , you are free to practise your religion.Then what do you mean by oppression?

 

[sister herb]

They too don´t care about international laws at all. Today in the occupied East Jerusalem:

Tens of Jewish settlers break into, occupy home of 83-year-old Palestinian woman
[ 03/11/2009 - 02:21 PM ]

OCCUPIED JERUSALEM, (PIC)-- Tens of armed Jewish settlers on Tuesday stormed and occupied the home of 83-year-old Rifka Al-Kurd in Sheikh Jarrah neighborhood in the heart of occupied Jerusalem.

The PIC reporter said that about 60 settlers broke into the house under the threat of guns and with Israeli police protection and settled in it despite an Israeli court order banning them access into this part of the house.

Kurd's family is one of 28 Palestinian families in Sheikh Jarrah suburb threatened with displacement after Jewish fanatic groups claimed that their homes were built on lands owned by these groups.

The report said that Kurd's home was repeatedly stormed by those groups but this time they came to stay.

The Israeli occupation authority controlled municipality of Jerusalem ordered closure of this particular section of the house at the pretext that it was built without permit.

Tension is running high in the neighborhood after the settlers refused to evacuate the house while Israeli police were barring its owners from reaching it.

http://www.palestine-info.co.uk/en/...z444fDvhKcRSkbIhCrtcQDCQKukUDibGI6xlyh52VthM=

Does this feel right way to get you new home - specially if she would be your mother/grandmother?

 

[JaffaCake]

Why is it an oppression , if you so wanted to go live near jerusalem buy land and go there legally.

My point is basically "Why should I obey the law?".

Why should we obey the law, when the law is just one group of people telling another group what to do. If the government brought in a new law saying that all people called zakirs must jump off a tall building, would you do it?

What oppression do you have anyway you have your home in what ever country you are , you probably are eating well and have a job , you are free to practise your religion.Then what do you mean by oppression?

I mean anything which is designed to take away your freedom.

 

[zakirs]

My point is basically "Why should I obey the law?".

Why should we obey the law, when the law is just one group of people telling another group what to do. If the government brought in a new law saying that all people called zakirs must jump off a tall building, would you do it?I mean anything which is designed to take away your freedom.

If you want to argue upon why should you obey the law... then you should think about whats the point of you living in this world ? Without law there would be no peaceful co-existence , sure if you want to butcher people go ahead don't obey the law and do it.Remember anyone will face consequences of his doings either in this life or hereafter.

Why should we obey the law, when the law is just one group of people telling another group what to do. If the government brought in a new law saying that all people called zakirs must jump off a tall building, would you do it?

No , Because it violates another law which is right to live , i can fight for my self defence.Remember i am harming nobody in this case, people want to harm me without any reason.Which is not the case in this argument.So , if you want to continue this pointless argument just to satify you ego then ok you have won the argument.Go have a coke or icecream.