A Message To The Non-Muslims.

[Count DeSheep]

Yes, but don't they seek her intercession? That is associationism. The Qur'an makes this clear:

10: 18 And they worship other than Allah that which neither harms them nor benefits them, and they say, "These are our intercessors with Allah " Say, "Do you inform Allah of something He does not know in the heavens or on the earth?" Exalted is He and high above what they associate with Him.
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Islam is pure, strict monotheism. All worship, supplication, actions are for God alone because He alone is worthy of having this done for Him.

I certainly don't see it. Mary was chosen by God to be the vessel that held Jesus's human body for nine months. So what? I suppose next you'll say that the Apostles were bad as well. We do not worship anyone but God. Although I have heard that Catholics pray to her or some other figure. I don't know why, and it is something that I haven't confirmed yet. In any case, that's only the Catholics, and not all Christians.

But what is the authentic proof that this happened? If Jesus son of Mary was truly the 'son' of God, why would he always say 'Son of Man' as you yourself stated?

3: 59 Indeed, the example of Jesus to Allah is like that of Adam. He created Him from dust; then He said to him, "Be," and he was.​

Don't allow yourself to be mislead by doubts and the whispering of Satan, you are heading in the right direction, take that step

I'm guessing he either said that to put himself on the level with humans, to say that he was in human form and suffered as we do, or to say "I'm not God! Get it through your head!" in a polite way. In my experience, all religious texts are vague like that...>.<

Kinda funny that someone who believes in God would ask for authentic proof of something religious, considering religion is based on faith. =P

I am not familiar with this story, but we believe that God can never manifest himself as part of His creation. It does not suit His Majesty. He is above such a thing, the created and the Creator can never be equal.

Bleh. I believe God can do whatever He wants, whenever He wants. I think that He has come down as human, multiple times apparently, to do things that we might not be able to understand. I have seen no evidence to the contrary.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

I certainly don't see it. Mary was chosen by God to be the vessel that held Jesus's human body for nine months. So what? I suppose next you'll say that the Apostles were bad as well. We do not worship anyone but God. Although I have heard that Catholics pray to her or some other figure. I don't know why, and it is something that I haven't confirmed yet. In any case, that's only the Catholics, and not all Christians.

The thing is that, no matter how long she held Jesus's body she is still a human and does not have a share in divinity. To take her, or anyone for that matter as an intercessor with God is the very associationism that the Prophet Muhammad came to end.

Unquestionably, for Allah is the pure religion. And those who take protectors besides Him [say], "We only worship them that they may bring us nearer to Allah in position." Indeed, Allah will judge between them concerning that over which they differ. Indeed, Allah does not guide he who is a liar and [confirmed] disbeliever. [Quran 39/3]
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I'm guessing he either said that to put himself on the level with humans, to say that he was in human form and suffered as we do, or to say "I'm not God! Get it through your head!" in a polite way. In my experience, all religious texts are vague like that...>.<

He Who created Adam without a father or a mother is able to create Jesus son of Mary, as well, without a father. If the claim is made that `Jesus son of Mary is Allah's son because he was created without a father, then the same claim befits Adam even more. However, since such a claim regarding Adam is obviously false, then making the same claim about Jesus son of Mary is even more false. Furthermore, by mentioning these facts, Allah emphasizes His ability, by creating Adam without a male or female, Hawa' from a male without a female, and Jesus son of Mary from a mother without a father, compared to His creating the rest of creation from male and female.

Kinda funny that someone who believes in God would ask for authentic proof of something religious, considering religion is based on faith. =P

I asked for proof whether the story is authentic or not. In Islam, our Qur'an, and the narrations from the Messenger can be traced back to him. There are chains of narrations for everything that we know to be from Muhammad (saw). Therefore, faith is required for something such as Life after Death, but proof is required if a statement or a story is attributed to the Messenger.

Bleh. I believe God can do whatever He wants, whenever He wants. I think that He has come down as human, multiple times apparently, to do things that we might not be able to understand. I have seen no evidence to the contrary.

Of course God can do whatever He wills whenever He wills. But the question is did He do it? So I say what I said before, it does not suit His Majesty. He is above such things.

3: 47 ...When He has decreed something, He says to it only: "Be!" and it is.​

 

[Keltoi]

Christians do not see Mary as divine by any definition of the word. She is an important figure in Christendom by the fact that she was mother of Jesus Christ, but beyond that she is never considered to be divine. Catholics probably put more emphasis on the mother of Christ than other denominations, but they don't consider Mary to be divine either.

 

[vpb]

If there must be a creator, who created the creator?

the thing is that you're asking this question from a human point of view. our imagination is very limited. everything we do in this world is based on a shape,color....etc. the term 'creation' is taught to you, and is part of your imagination, but your imagination cannot go beyond that.
if I ask you could you model me another way of life, you would still come up with something like "cells, organs, ..." using terms and stuff that we know. we can't model a life, something new, without using life terminologies , something like we've never seen before, and actually it would not work bc we wouldn't understand it. so when you say who created then God, this is your limited imagination (human imagination), bc probably outside our imagination, the term creation doesn't even exist. and Allah swt is able to do anything, and his knowledge is perfect. He has created things that match with our nature, that we can understand. This some sort of question like:
"can God create a rock that he can't hold it", so in this case we use our limited imagination bc we think that Allah swt knows only to make gravity, probably outside our world, in Allah's knowledge there is some other type of thing, which is nothing like gravity, so if Allah want he can disappear the term of "mass or gravity" and it doesn't exist anymore, and the question would not make sense anymore.

you get what i'm sayin. and please don't ask these kind of questions. cuz they're funny

 

[wilberhum]

you get what i'm sayin. and please don't ask these kind of questions. cuz they're funny

Funny? Why?
One of the arguments that many theists use is that every thing comes from some thing else. Therefore there must be a created. I’m just pointing out that I find that conclusion erroneous. Using the same logic, the creator needs a creator.
So it is just as valid to say the creator was the energy of the big bang.
Not what I believe, just pointing out what I conceder faulty logic.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

everything is created BUT the creator.

theres your answer

 

[wilberhum]

everything is created BUT the creator.

theres your answer

Again, very standard response.
Logic tells you ....... till the logic fails and that is where god comes in.

 

[vpb]

Funny? Why?
One of the arguments that many theists use is that every thing comes from some thing else. Therefore there must be a created. I’m just pointing out that I find that conclusion erroneous. Using the same logic, the creator needs a creator.
So it is just as valid to say the creator was the energy of the big bang.
Not what I believe, just pointing out what I conceder faulty logic.

dude, there can't be a creator of a creator, it does not make sense , there cannot be a creator[1] of a creator[2], bc then the creator[2] would not be a creator but a creation. the root of everything comes from the creator. the word itself 'creator' tells that he created and he can't be created . Creator[1] is a the devisor. How can someone ie. Creator[2] create a creator[1] that is a deviser? than the the one who created Creator[1] is the deviser, not the creator[1]. and we come to the conclusion that we don't call Creator[1] a creator but a creation.
i don't know if you've ever used unix systems but it's like that
/home/user/ , we know that the folder user belongs to home, and home to / . but / does not belong to anywhere. it's the last point, you can't go beyond that folder cuz it's the root which holds everything. or maybe like Windows, you can go beyond the C:, which you go the hard drive as a whole, but you can't go beyond that. see

 

[wilberhum]

dude, there can't be a creator of a creator, it does not make sense , there cannot be a creator[1] of a creator[2], bc then the creator[2] would not be a creator but a creation. the root of everything comes from the creator. the word itself 'creator' tells that he created and he can't be created.
i don't know if you've ever used unix systems but it's like that
/home/user/ , we know that the folder user belongs to home, and home to / . but / does not belong to anywhere. it's the last point, you can't go beyond that folder cuz it's the root which holds everything. or maybe like Windows, you can go beyond the C:, which you go the hard drive as a whole, but you can't go beyond that. see

See my response to IbnAbdulHakim.

 

[vpb]

wilberhum, well i wrote 2 posts , explaining you in logical way about that, but seems it doesn't do anything and you don't wish to accept it. and that's what I thought. so i'll just leave you with that.

for a finish here's a verse

Do they not then earnestly seek to understand the Qur'an, or are their hearts locked up by them? Surah Muhammed 47:24

Subhanallah we bi hamdihi.

 

[wilberhum]

wilberhum, well i wrote 2 posts , explaining you in logical way about that, but seems it doesn't do anything and you don't wish to accept it. and that's what I thought. so i'll just leave you with that.

for a finish here's a verse


Subhanallah we bi hamdihi.

I have no problem with your explinations of belief. What I have a problem with is:

you are considered to have legislatively been given proof and been informed of the admonition of all messengers,

There is that Proof stuff again when there is none.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

I don't believe the truth can be found here.

Then bear witness that we've given you the message of Islam clearly, and that you have turned away from it by your own desire.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Again, very standard response.
Logic tells you ....... till the logic fails and that is where god comes in.

Whats so hard to comprehend :?

 

[Trumble]

Whats so hard to comprehend :?

Nothing. But

everything is created BUT the creator

is a statement, not an argument. There is nothing to support it at all. Logic has "failed" in that it seemingly cannot provide such support, and is therefore abandoned in the hope that the statement alone will somehow be enough. For those who don't believe already it isn't.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Nothing. But


is a statement, not an argument. There is nothing to support it at all. Logic has "failed" in that it seemingly cannot provide such support, and is therefore abandoned in the hope that the statement alone will somehow be enough. For those who don't believe already it isn't.

support?

do you not realise just from contemplation that there is a common source for everything, why else is everything in such perfect synchronization?

 

[Joe98]

......that we've given you the message of Islam clearly,

From the above the message is limited to: Be scared of god and worship god or burn in hell.

What a wonderful god! Thats won me over!

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Hmmm, I find it to be strange how people take human 'logic' as something that can explain Allah. We only know of Allah that which He has given us knowledge of, and our knowledge is very limited indeed.

"...and Allah is the master of His affair, but most people do not know."
[12:21]

Say: I do not say to you, I have with me the treasures of Allah, nor do I know the unseen, nor do I say to you that I am an angel; I do not follow aught save that which is revealed to me. Say: Are the blind and the seeing one alike? Do you not then reflect?
[6:50]

"So set thy purpose (O Muhammad) for religion as a man by nature upright - the nature (framed) of Allah, in which He hath created man. There is no altering (the laws of) Allah's creation. That is the right religion, but most men know not."
[30:30]

 

[vpb]

From the above the message is limited to: Be scared of god and worship god or burn in hell.

What a wonderful god! Thats won me over!

why do you always try to find hair inside an egg?

 

[Joe98]

why do you always try to find hair inside an egg?

Great phrase!

I have learnt something on this forum this year!

 

[snakelegs]

yeah, i liked it too!