A question regarding Christianity

[Grace Seeker]

I thought it was a sin to judge?

Actually in Matthew 18, Jesus instructs his followers on how to deal with differences among one another, and this includes confrontation. Paul also has Christians holding one another accountable in the faith. But we are not to judge those who are outside the faith, that is God's responsibility, not ours.

So, if someone (say a Unitarian) should say that he/she is a Christian, we might then ask them to live up to that name. If they however deny the truth of Christ, we simply say they are not one of us and them pray for them.

 

[Philosopher]

Actually in Matthew 18, Jesus instructs his followers on how to deal with differences among one another, and this includes confrontation. Paul also has Christians holding one another accountable in the faith. But we are not to judge those who are outside the faith, that is God's responsibility, not ours.

So, if someone (say a Unitarian) should say that he/she is a Christian, we might then ask them to live up to that name. If they however deny the truth of Christ, we simply say they are not one of us and them pray for them.

So it's a sin for Christians to judge Muslims and Jews?

 

[Grace Seeker]

So it's a sin for Christians to judge Muslims and Jews?

To judge whether they are worthy people in God's eyes? Yes, I would agree with that.

I think we should see them as people God created, and therefore God loves. As to their acceptance by God, well we can speculate, we can offer them what we know is a way that is assured, but I don't think we can condemn. That is not something given to us to pronounce on anyone.

 

[Philosopher]

To judge whether they are worthy people in God's eyes? Yes, I would agree with that.

I think we should see them as people God created, and therefore God loves. As to their acceptance by God, well we can speculate, we can offer them what we know is a way that is assured, but I don't think we can condemn. That is not something given to us to pronounce on anyone.

Would it be a sin to say that Muslims will go to hell?

 

[Grace Seeker]

Would it be a sin to say that Muslims will go to hell?

It would not be a sin to say it, if that is what one truly believed, and many in fact do. But, I am not personally ready to say it.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

....

thanks for ur patience

I guess , all the lengthy answers u r giving here , u can start ur own website

How long will u stay on-line ? Should i ask u more questions now or later?

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam, Muslim Woman, peace to you as well.

-- May the peace, mercy and blessings of God be upon you

But not all Christians are thinking persons, and sadly not all have read the scriptures.

---in religion classes of school & colleges , don't they need to read Bible ? In my country , it's a must for Muslim students to memorise few chapters from holy Quran in school days.

I m not sure about now a days English medium schools but in Govt school, still it is. What i memorised now , u may say that most parts i learnt in school to get pass marks

No. To be a Christian is simply to be a follower of Christ and believing in the work of Christ as a means of salvation.

--can u explain more , pl ? What is the most imp work of Jesus (p) as means of Salvation ? If it's not to face death on cross , then what is it ?


Jesus (p) taught us to worship One God . So , if any Christian believes that only father is God and not the son or the Spirit , then why s/he can't be considered as a real Christian ?


S/he can show u many verses from Bible to justify his/her belief.

Then he went to the mountain where the transfiguration occurred and he discussed his departure with Moses and Elijah,

---why these 2 Prophets (pbut ) came ? I mean , any other related stories/concepts regarding the coming of these 2 Prophets to Jesus (p) ?

Does that adaquately address your question?

--yes & no :giggling:

Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord.
They will proclaim his righteousness
to a people yet unborn—
for he has done it.

Notice how prophetic they are of Jesus.

---hope , no Jew will see this .... he will be mad :raging: or laugh & tease.

Please, no comments from Muslims that it wasn't Jesus, but Judas.

--- allow me comments pl,pl. pl.


Quran does not mention any name . I guess , it's Barnabas Bible that says it was Judas....did u read that Bible ?

In going to the cross, Jesus was going as a sin offering, a propitiation. In so doing, the sins of the people would be placed on him.

---if Jesus (p) did not die on the cross , what could possibly turned wrong ? All Chrstians/human being will burn in hell forever ?

 

[Grace Seeker]

Salaam/peace;





thanks for ur patience

I guess , all the lengthy answers u r giving here , u can start ur own website

Maybe I should start a thread of all my own answers to questions and then LI can most my responses and Sami Zaatari's refutations in one section of the board with a big "DANGER" sign on it warning people they may not want to visit there.

How long will u stay on-line ? Should i ask u more questions now or later?

I'm probably done for the next couple of days, but post all the questions you want. When they pile up, then I just select those I find most intersting. So, if you have a particular question you really want answer, it is better to post it and none others. But otherwise, ask away.

 

[Grace Seeker]

---in religion classes of school & colleges , don't they need to read Bible ? In my country , it's a must for Muslim students to memorise few chapters from holy Quran in school days.

I m not sure about now a days English medium schools but in Govt school, still it is. What i memorised now , u may say that most parts i learnt in school to get pass marks

Well, the practice is probably different in different parts of the world.

Where I live in the USA, most children go to public schools, and there is no requirement to read any religious texts whatsoever. In fact, sometimes schools get in trouble for even offering a course on the Bible as literature.

Universities have a little more latitude, but any classes in which the Bible is taught would be an elective and thus not taken by everyone. it isn't untill you go to a private school or intentionally sign-up for a class in the Bible that one would be required to read it. And then, many might just do so to pass the test and forget what they read soon after.

Other places in the world, it may be different.

--can u explain more , pl ? What is the most imp work of Jesus (p) as means of Salvation ? If it's not to face death on cross , then what is it ?

Indeed, from a Christian perspective, what Jesus did on the cross in dying for our sins and thus paying the sacrificial price that brought atonment to humankind is what I mean by the work of Christ.

Jesus (p) taught us to worship One God . So , if any Christian believes that only father is God and not the son or the Spirit , then why s/he can't be considered as a real Christian ?

Well, first I would disagree that Jesus actually taught us to worship One God. Of course, Jesus did only worship one God, but that wasn't the center of his teaching. It was always an assumed part of his faith and those to whom he did teach. Jesus' main teaching was on the nature of the Kingdom of God. But his central mission was not to teach but the work of salvation which I mentioned above.

Now, why would one who denied the truth of the divinity of the Son not be considered a Christian, because, at least according to orthodox Christian beliefs (and if you looked at their link, even the Unitarians acknowledge that their teachings fall outside of orthodox Christian beliefs) their is no saving work if Christ is just a mere human being and not also God. Also, though you did not ask, there is no saving work if Christ is only God and not also 100% human being.

That means that the real question that people ought to be asking about Christianity is not questions about the Trinity (how 1+1+1 =1, which by the way in my personal opinion is a very poor attempt at an explanation of the Trinity). What people who are confused by Christianity ought to be asking is who it is that one person, Jesus Christ, and be both 100% God and 100% human at the same time without any reduction in either of those natures. Which, also, by the way, I cannot answer how, I can only point to where I see that though a mystery as to how, it is nonetheless true.

---why these 2 Prophets (pbut ) came ? I mean , any other related stories/concepts regarding the coming of these 2 Prophets to Jesus (p) ?

The scriptures never have this question posed, so it is not answered from scripture. But in reflecting on it, we note that these were the two most highly respected persons of Judaism in Jesus' day. Moses the law giver, and Elijah the prophet. The authors of many respected commentaries have written pages on each of them if you would like me to go into it more deeply, but think of it as a statement that the Law and the Prophets (in other words the entire Tanakh) pointing toward Jesus. (Of course that's just a Christian interpretation of the event.)

--- allow me comments pl,pl. pl.


Quran does not mention any name . I guess , it's Barnabas Bible that says it was Judas....did u read that Bible ?

Well, I guess I'm just accustomed to hearing my Muslims chime in from time to time that it wasn't Jesus, but Judas. Good to know that it isn't actually taught that way in the Qu'ran. Though (from my perspective) it really doesn't make any difference who died in Jesus' place; it is bad enough simply to deny the reality of the crucifixion.

I've seen the supposed-gospel of Barnabbas. It is meaningless as far as getting any Christian beliefs from it, as it wasn't written until centuries after the time of Christ and the apostles, and certainly not by Barnabbas who was a frequent companion and friend of Paul, something the supposed-gospel denies. No Christian teachings are based on it, and no Christian church has ever used it.

---if Jesus (p) did not die on the cross , what could possibly turned wrong ? All Chrstians/human being will burn in hell forever ?

Quite possibly. The Christian view would be that if Jesus did not both die on the cross and be raised from the grave then we are all (all of us, not just Christians) still dead in our sins and there is no hope of salvation for anyone.

 

[Philosopher]

Hey Grace,

Are you a Catholic?

 

[Grace Seeker]

Hey Grace,

Are you a Catholic?

No. I happen to be a United Methodist, which most people would consider a type of protestant.

Why? Do I sound Catholic?

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

Well, first I would disagree that Jesus actually taught us to worship One God....

Uhhhhh, I m totally lost here :uuh:


pl. explain more ---if u r not running out of patience already :hiding:


When asked which is the most imp commandment , Jesus (p) told the 1st one . That is God is One ….. am I right ?

So , how come , he did not teach to worship One God only ?



Who will decide who is a Christian or not ? If one claims that s/he is a Christian because Jesus (p) was son of God & this belief will save him/her , then do others have any right
to object ?

 

[Grace Seeker]

Salaam/peace;




Uhhhhh, I m totally lost here :uuh:


pl. explain more ---if u r not running out of patience already :hiding:


When asked which is the most imp commandment , Jesus (p) told the 1st one . That is God is One ….. am I right ?

So , how come , he did not teach to worship One God only ?

Uh, I don't know why I said that. My head must have been off in the clouds at the time I typed that. Sorry. :hiding:

Who will decide who is a Christian or not ?

Jesus hismelf told this parable as regards judgment day:

Mattew 25
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

So it appears that Jesus gets to decide.

If one claims that s/he is a Christian because Jesus (p) was son of God & this belief will save him/her , then do others have any right to object ?

I'll just refer you to these verses of scripture:

Romans 9
14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

Romans 10:11 -- "As the Scripture says, 'Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame'."

 

[Skillganon]

Jesus hismelf told this parable as regards judgment day:
So it appears that Jesus gets to decide.

I thought Jesus said fear his creator who has the power to throw you into heaven. So God decides not Jesus.

4"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. 5But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. 6Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies[a]? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. (Luke 12:4-6)

 

[Grace Seeker]

I thought Jesus said fear his creator who has the power to throw you into heaven. So God decides not Jesus.

4"I tell you, my friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that can do no more. 5But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after the killing of the body, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him. 6Are not five sparrows sold for two pennies[a]? Yet not one of them is forgotten by God. (Luke 12:4-6)

Being that when we are discussing Christian theology, that Jesus is God, there is no difference in those statements. Still in the greater scheme of things while the power may be with the Father, it appears that he has shared it with the Son.

 

[Skillganon]

Being that when we are discussing Christian theology, that Jesus is God, there is no difference in those statements. Still in the greater scheme of things while the power may be with the Father, it appears that he has shared it with the Son.

Yes, I anticipated that response, but solely based on the above statement it seems God(father) decides.

Now on the topic of sharing power, will you say God shared his power with solomon and the other prophets who did miracles?

 

[Grace Seeker]

I don't know of any miracles done by Solomon. You have the advantage of me on that bit of information. Obviously I am not informed well enough. But certainly there were mircales peformed by Elijah, Moses, and others. I think God gave them power in order to perform those miracles, yes. I don't think they did them on their own power, or by magic.

Ask the next question, I'll bet my response surprises you.

 

[Skillganon]

I don't know of any miracles done by Solomon. You have the advantage of me on that bit of information. Obviously I am not informed well enough.

Ok, It might not be recorded in the bible. However you might wan't to refer to the Rabbinical account e.g. Targum Sheni.

But certainly there were mircales peformed by Elijah, Moses, and others. I think God gave them power in order to perform those miracles, yes. I don't think they did them on their own power, or by magic.

Interesting, that is how we muslim view miracles of Jesus.

Ask the next question, I'll bet my response surprises you.

I will.

Thanks.

Skill

 

[Grace Seeker]

by Grace Seeker
But certainly there were mircales peformed by Elijah, Moses, and others. I think God gave them power in order to perform those miracles, yes. I don't think they did them on their own power, or by magic.

Interesting, that is how we muslim view miracles of Jesus.

And that's the next question. See, that is how we Christians view the miracles of Jesus too. Are you shocked? Want me to explain how it is that Jesus who we view as God, doesn't do miracles in his own power?

 

[Skillganon]

And that's the next question. See, that is how we Christians view the miracles of Jesus too. Are you shocked? Want me to explain how it is that Jesus who we view as God, doesn't do miracles in his own power?

Not shocked. Jesus, Moses, Exrah e.t.c does not have their own devine powers to do anything except with what is granted from God with permission, because they are not God.

You can entertain us by giving christian understanding how God gives another god power to do miracles.