A weird Christian friend

Well, of course this is muslim version. I have never heard b4 about Adam building any big stone monuments in Arabia.
But now we go off topic I guess.

You admit that the tree isnt part of your religion but use it in ceremonies.

We assert that the Kaaba is PART of out religion and turn to it while praying.


You admit that you are adding something.
 
Here's a question... does anyone think it's insulting to Jesus that his birthday is celebrated on a pagan holiday instead of his actual birthday, and that this date was chosen simply to gain Roman converts by kowtowing to their paganistic religion of which Jesus adamently preached against as "foolish" in several places in the Bible?
If we knew when his actual birthday was we would celebrate it then. Personally I vote for sometime in October, but I can't prove it and I don't think anyone can. So, we pick a day, and if we can "Christianize" a pagan holiday so that it speaks more of Jesus than of some pagan diety, then I'm all for it.
 
why add something Jesus didnt prescribe and the Apostles didnt need?

What is this need to try and "improve" your religion from what it was?
 
Well, the muslims for example did use tha pagan stone of Kaaba, worshhipped in pre islamic times by Arabs.

LOL... Abraham built Kaaba as a monotheistic house of God ... then the pagans hijacked it and made it a polytheistic house of Gods... then Muhammad reverted it back to a monotheistic house of God...

Just like temple mount... Solomon built a monotheistic house of God....then the Roman hijacked it and made it into polytheistic Temple of Jupiter .. then the Christians turned it into a dumpsite....then came the Muslims cleaned the place and built a mosque (many Jews helped the Muslims cleaning the site and even built the mosque as for the first time, the holy place was reverted back to it monotheistic status)...
 
And so the circling of the pagan kaaba was changed to go in the other direction.

Allah Almighty says: "And (remember) when We showed Ibrahim the site of the (Sacred) House (the Kaaba at Makkah), saying: Ascribe not anything (in worship) with Me, and sanctify My House for those who circumambulate it, and those who stand up (for prayer), and those who bow (submit themselves with humility and obedience to Allah), and make prostration (in prayer). And proclaim to mankind the Hajj (pilgrimage). They will come to you on foot and on every lean camel, they will come from every deep and distant (wide) mountain highway (to perform Hajj)." (Al-Hajj, 22:26-27).

The circling (tawaf) was started since Abraham...
 
Now to return to the original topic. There are Christians that refuse to do any form of secular celebrating. In my Christian years and especially as an "Old School" Catholic. some things that were frowned upon were non-religious, especially non-Catholic celebrations. Christmas was supposed to be "Christ's Mass" a day of prayer and not a secular party involving trees, an old man in a red suit and presents.

Much of what is seen in todays world as Christian celebrations came about in the 1800s and are not recognized as religious celebrations by some Christians.


My point being: the woman mentioned in the opening post, is not the only Christian who does not celebrate Christmas. I have known several that do not celebrate it.
 
My point being: the woman mentioned in the opening post, is not the only Christian who does not celebrate Christmas. I have known several that do not celebrate it.

I find it weird... because .. I never heard of Christians not celebrating Christmas...

I wonder how many Christians are like her...
 
Now to return to the original topic. There are Christians that refuse to do any form of secular celebrating. In my Christian years and especially as an "Old School" Catholic. some things that were frowned upon were non-religious, especially non-Catholic celebrations. Christmas was supposed to be "Christ's Mass" a day of prayer and not a secular party involving trees, an old man in a red suit and presents.

Much of what is seen in todays world as Christian celebrations came about in the 1800s and are not recognized as religious celebrations by some Christians.
I am sure I have said this in previous years, and I say it again.

If the celebration of the birth of Christ was truly placed at the time of pagan celebrations in an attempt to attract pagans to the Christian faith, then it has probably backfired.

As a consequence we now have a very popular, very secular, very commercial festival - and it can be hard to remain focused on the true reason we (as Christians) celebrate.

I am encouraged to see Christians increasingly trying to turn away from the secular and commercial and instead focus on the celebration of the birth of Christ.
It reminds us of how long God's people waited for the arrival of the promised Messiah.
It reminds us that Jesus will return again, and that we ourselves should be prepared and ready.

My point being: the woman mentioned in the opening post, is not the only Christian who does not celebrate Christmas. I have known several that do not celebrate it
.
That's interesting.

Peace
 
I've watched a Santa movie on Hallmark Channel last night (forgot the title)...

It's about Santa wanting his son to take over his job after 100 years of doing Santa thingy.... as usual .... is there is no Santa, there would be no Christmas... I mean... what the message that these film makers are conveying to the public? "No Santa, No Christmas"? How about Jesus?

Why a Turkish saint wearing a Coca Cola's endorsed red pyjama is more important than Jesus in Christmas?
 
That Christian should be a Muslim the way he talks no one would guess, he is right they are man made celebrations and need to waste time or money in these celebrations.
 
That Christian should be a Muslim the way he talks no one would guess, he is right they are man made celebrations and need to waste time or money in these celebrations.

he is actually a "she"...

She's very Christianic and try to follow the Bible 100%...

I dont think that she is interested in any other religions... and she's very conservative too...

In the last general election, she went door to door asking the people to vote for an Islamist candidate...
 
why add something Jesus didnt prescribe and the Apostles didnt need?

What is this need to try and "improve" your religion from what it was?

Not sure if this was directed at my post before it, or the thread as a whole. But I don't think that Christians have tried to add something that Jesus didn't prescribe, except of course there are lots of things that we do that Jesus didn't comment on one way or another. Some Christians think that if the Bible doesn't command it then it shouldn't be done, while others think that if the Bible doesn't outlaw it then it entirely premissable. There is a whole lot of room between those two points of view. You question presupposes the first point of view to be the only truly righteous way to follow Jesus, and I simply reject that interpretation of what God is seeking from us to be correct. There are hundreds of thousands of things never mentioned in the scriptures, and as long as they are used to bring glory to God then it seems to me they are indeed prescribed by Jesus, and certainly not proscribed. I don't call that "improving" my religion any more than the use of a loudspeaker, certianly not something prescribed by Muhammad, to make the call to prayer more easily heard is an "innovation" within Islam.


I find it weird... because .. I never heard of Christians not celebrating Christmas...

I wonder how many Christians are like her...

The Puritans, the Pilgrims, whole hosts of Christians never "celebrated" Christmas in the sense that people speak of it today. In fact the whole idea is fairly new, and I believe more of a creation by the secular world than by Christianity. I'll gladly email you a copy of last Sunday's sermon if you would like to read my sense of how it is that we as Christians ARE supposed to celebrate Christmas. (Hint: It doesn't have anything to do with how it is marketed in the world.)


I've watched a Santa movie on Hallmark Channel last night (forgot the title)...

It's about Santa wanting his son to take over his job after 100 years of doing Santa thingy.... as usual .... is there is no Santa, there would be no Christmas... I mean... what the message that these film makers are conveying to the public? "No Santa, No Christmas"? How about Jesus?

Why a Turkish saint wearing a Coca Cola's endorsed red pyjama is more important than Jesus in Christmas?

Yes, you've captured the message of the filmmakers. But remember few of them are actually Christian. As you said it was Coca Cola that created the modern day Santa. And it was a grave perversion of what it was that the old Turkish saint was truly about.

Bishop Nicolas was interested in giving of himself to make life better for others who were in desperate straights. His actions do a good job of reflecting his following after the Christ who offered himself as a gift to a fallen world. The idea of people receiving reward from some omniscient being who judges whether we are to receive blessings from him based on the degree to which we are "naughty or nice" and weighs each action of our lives in the balance does not sound Christian at all.
 
I've watched a Santa movie on Hallmark Channel last night (forgot the title)...

It's about Santa wanting his son to take over his job after 100 years of doing Santa thingy.... as usual .... is there is no Santa, there would be no Christmas... I mean... what the message that these film makers are conveying to the public? "No Santa, No Christmas"? How about Jesus?

Why a Turkish saint wearing a Coca Cola's endorsed red pyjama is more important than Jesus in Christmas?

IMHO, Christmas became more secular because society became more secular. Society didn't become more secular because Christmas is no longer about Jesus. This causality is important.

Christmas is now a diverse holiday and celebration, which appeals to broad segments in society. A good thing IMHO. I'm always confused by this constant desire by some to purify everything of anykind of custom or tradition that isn't rooted in their specific religion or narrow worldview. Our culture traditions are strengthened by such diverse influences. Christians can still remember Jesus during Christmas, yet I can also enjoy this time of the year.
 
Christians can still remember Jesus during Christmas, yet I can also enjoy this time of the year.
Most certainly you can enjoy this time of the year. But I would also submit that if you are not celebrating the birth of Christ, then you are actually celebrating something other than Christmas. You may stick the name Christmas on it, but it isn't. Just as "a rose by any other name would smell as sweet" is an insightful proverb; my own corrollary to that is "a rosebush that doesn't actually produce any roses is just a thornbush no matter the name."

Feel free to enjoy your Santafest all you want.

Oh, and I agree with this part of your post too:
IMHO, Christmas became more secular because society became more secular. Society didn't become more secular because Christmas is no longer about Jesus. This causality is important.
Far too many "Christians" are more nominal in their faith than anything else. They are quite happy to adopt a secular version of Christmas. I laugh at all of the hubub these folks make over saying "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays" or object to "Merry X-mas", but center their celebration of the birth of Christ around a tree under which one finds presents exchanged almost exclusively with loved ones, rather than like Christ himself did leaving the comfort of his eternal home and going out into the world, to the lost and forgotten, the outcasts, and those who had no one to love them, but with the news that God in fact did. Sometimes we Christians have a strange way of keeping Christ in "Christmas", but not in our lives.
 
Last edited:
Your friend is right, these famous "christian" holidays are actually remnants of paganism. Christmas was originally the winter solstice. It was adopted by Pope Leo in 800 AD under the urging of Emporer Charlemagne, the leader of the Celt tribes. Tribal Europeans were unconvinced by Christianity and battled the Romans for nearly 1,000 years to keep them out. Under the deal in which the Pope wanted to bring western Europe into its empire, they assimilated pagan traditions with the belief it would make the transition easier on the people. To this day Europeans keep the holiday as an ancestral tradition, yet many Christians in America are not aware of its origins (they lost most of their cultural knowledge in being assimiltaed to America). Its why the tree, Germanic people were practioners of animism, many of their myths contained the ideology of deities residing in trees or "oak nodes". Its why the acorn is still a holy symbol among Almanian people. I'm a german, and I admitt despite being a Kafir I have a special place for these traditions because I know my ancestors practiced this ritual for nearly 8,000 years.

Easter is pagan also, but on the eastern side, specifically it was the fertility holiday of the Goddess Astarte which was a patron deity of Rome. Hence the fertility symbols like rabbits, painting eggs, etc. Its a celebration of the changing of the seasons when the sun returns to earth and the greens shed again.

Most pagan religions have a cyclical view of time and hence celebrate the natural cycles of the seasons and astral bodies. Its rich in animism, ancestral worship and polytheism.

If Jesus did indeed exist, then he would have really been born around September, as the Bible records he came soon after the Feasts of Terbanacle. His birth certainly would have nothing to do with the symbology of horned stags (reindeers) old men (santa claus) holly (fertility plant) or the myriad of other things we associate with Christmas.
 
OK... for those who are religious Christians and celebrate Christmas as Jesus' Birthday... how do you celebrate it religiously?

Every year I watch midnite mass at Bethlehem... is that ritual is the only religious thing done on Christmas?
 
OK... for those who are religious Christians and celebrate Christmas as Jesus' Birthday... how do you celebrate it religiously?

Every year I watch midnite mass at Bethlehem... is that ritual is the only religious thing done on Christmas?

you should be prepare this christmas eve... something usually happens in sarawak or sabah. :exhausted
 
OK... for those who are religious Christians and celebrate Christmas as Jesus' Birthday... how do you celebrate it religiously?

Every year I watch midnite mass at Bethlehem... is that ritual is the only religious thing done on Christmas?

Not being Catholic I usually don't watch the Mass, although I have in the past. For most Protestant Christians it is a time of prayer and reflection. There are no grand rituals, in most cases.
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top