MuhammadHamza1
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Well,never mind the video.
About Christianity
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MuhammadHamza1
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Again and again in the Quran the words appear:
"But if they stop,you stop as well."
This is legitimate defence.
"But if they stop,you stop as well."
This is legitimate defence.
A recent post made me ponder.. but this is not the best place to ask, being an islamic site and allbut I see many Christians in here and ex Christians too!
What it's essentially about is that in islam, it is basic to have learnt about the 25 prophets. The message is understood via the historical lessons given to man throughout the ages as they collectively progressed in these stories. So for those who accept islam, they are already following the final messenger and they are settled...
What is not settled is that we know the Jews are still awaiting their final(?) messenger. They rejected Jesus and Muhammad peace be upon them both. Christians rejected Muhammad (pbuh), so are they waiting for a final messenger or have they settled for what is brought to them by the Bible? or: There are no more messengers! Or : Don't know?
Or am I not clear?
eace:
It is Christian belief that prophecy and revelation ended with Jesus Christ and the New Testament.
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Hence why we have 3.... as you said about not recognising prophecy, despite having reference of him.
We don't, in fact, have reference to Mohammed.
3 ?
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How does ANY of your post affect Christians ? - who don't accept the Koran's authority.
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The Crucifixion of Jesus was foretold by prophets of the Torah: e.g. Isaiah 52:6 to 53:12 and Zechariah 12:10.
What are your "many reasons" to reject Jesus' death on the Cross ?
The sign of Jonah given to the Jews (and to Christians, for that matter) is of course Jesus' Resurrection from the dead.
For Christians, the New Testament is alone to be trusted and regarded as sufficient.
I assure you most sincerely, that I am VERY critical of religions - with the sole exception of Christianity.
MuhammadHamza1
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Then we Should start with the basics.
1)-How do you explain the great number of similarities between the stories of Jesus in Gospels and the Stories of The Roman Emperor at that time?
2)-Why were the New Testament written in Greek when Jesus spoke Aramaic?
And so should his disciples then.
How could the disciples of Jesus write the Gospels,
When they were illterate?
1)-How do you explain the great number of similarities between the stories of Jesus in Gospels and the Stories of The Roman Emperor at that time?
2)-Why were the New Testament written in Greek when Jesus spoke Aramaic?
And so should his disciples then.
How could the disciples of Jesus write the Gospels,
When they were illterate?
MuhammadHamza1
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"With the sole exception of Christianity"
That is no way.
If you consider the Quran,
It again and again asks you to consider and think and think critically about ITSELF.
Do you know why?
Because the truth fears no investigation.
That is no way.
If you consider the Quran,
It again and again asks you to consider and think and think critically about ITSELF.
Do you know why?
Because the truth fears no investigation.
Islamthetruth
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Simply because Allah' says so
Quran 4:157
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Even in the Bible , there are several reasons .
1. JESUS WAS RELUCTANT TO DIE!He had worked out a strategy of defence to repel the Jews. Because he wantedto remain ALIVE!
2. HE BESEECHED GOD FOR HELP.With strong crying and tears for God Almighty to keep him ALIVE!
3. GOD "HEARD" HIS PRAYERSWhich means that God accepted his prayers to keep him ALIVE!
4. AN ANGEL OF GOD CAME TO STRENGTHEN HIM:In the hope and belief that God will save him ALIVE!
5. PILATE FINDS JESUS NOT GUILTY!Good reason to keep Jesus ALIVE!
6. PILATE'S WIFE SHOWN A DREAM IN WHICH SHE WAS TOLD THAT -"No harm should come to this just man." In other words that he should besaved ALIVE!
7. SUPPOSED TO BE ON THE CROSS FOR ONLY THREE HOURS.According to the system in vogue, no man could die by crucifixion in so short atime which means that even if he was fastened to the cross - he was ALIVE!
8. THE OTHER TWO - HIS "CROSSMATES" ON THEIR RESPECTIVE CROSSESWERE ALIVE.So Jesus too, for the same period of time must be ALIVE
9. ENCYCLOPEDIA BIBLICA UNDER ARTICLE "CROSS" - COLUMN 960:Says that when the spear was thrust - Jesus was ALIVE!
10. "FORTHWITH" CAME THERE OUT BLOOD AND WATER:"Forthwith" means straightaway, immediately which was a sure sign that Jesuswas ALIVE!
11. LEGS NOT BROKEN - AS A FULFILMENT OF PROPHECY."Legs" can be of any use only if Jesus was ALIVE!
12. THUNDERSTORM, EARTHQUAKE, AND DARKENING OF THE SUN ALLWITHIN 3 HOURS!To disperse the sadistic mob to enable his "secret disciples" to help, keep himALIVE!
13. JEWS DOUBTED HIS DEATH:They suspected that he had escaped death on the cross - that he was ALIVE!
14. PILATE "MARVELS" TO HEAR THAT JESUS WAS DEAD.He knew from experience that no man can die so soon by crucifixion. Hesuspected that Jesus was ALIVE!
15. BIG ROOMY CHAMBER:Close at hand, and big and airy for willing hands to come to the rescue.Providence was out to keep Jesus ALIVE!
16. STONE AND "WINDING SHEETS" HAD TO BE REMOVED:Only necessary if Jesus was ALIVE!
17. REPORT ON WINDING SHEETS.German Scientists who carried out experiments on the "Shroud of Turin"said that the heart of Jesus had not stopped functioning - that he was ALIVE.
18. EVER IN DISGUISE!Disguise not necessary if Jesus was "resurrected". Only necessary if he wasALIVE!
19. FORBADE MARY MAGDALENE TO TOUCH HIM."Touch me not" for this reason that it would hurt; because he was ALIVE!
20. "NOT YET ASCENDED UNTO MY FATHER"In the language of the Jews, in the idiom of the Jews, he was saying, "I am notdead yet", in other words, "I am ALIVE!"
21. MARY MAGDALENE NOT AFRAID ON RECOGNISING JESUS.Because she had seen signs of life before. She was looking for a Jesus whowas ALIVE!
22. DISCIPLES PETRIFIED ON SEEING JESUS IN THE UPPER-ROOM.All their knowledge about the "crucifixion" was from hearsay, therefore, theycould not believe that Jesus was ALIVE!
23. ATE FOOD AGAIN AND AGAIN IN HIS POST "CRUCIFIXION"APPEARANCES.Food only necessary if he was ALIVE!
24. NEVER SHOWED HIMSELF TO HIS ENEMIES.Because he had escaped death by the "skin of his teeth". He was ALIVE!
25. TOOK ONLY SHORT TRIPS.Because he was not resurrected, not spiritualised, but ALIVE!
26. TESTIMONY OF MEN AROUND THE TOMB:"Why seek ye the living among the dead?" - (Luke 24:4-5): That he is notdead, but ALIVE!
27. TESTIMONY OF ANGELS:". . . angels who had said that he was ALIVE!" - Luke 24:23. Did not say,"resurrected" but the actual word uttered by the angels was "ALIVE!"
28. MARY MAGDALENE TESTIFIES -". . . they heard that he was ALIVE, and had been seen by her, they believednot." - (Mark 16:11): Mary did not vouch for a spook, or ghost or spirit ofJesus but a LIVE Jesus. What they could not believe was that the Master wasALIVE!
29. DR. PRIMROSE TESTIFIES:That the "water and the blood", when Jesus was lanced on the side, was onaccount of an upset in the nervous vessels because of the scourging by staves.Which was a sure sign that Jesus was ALIVE!
30. JESUS HAD HIMSELF FORETOLD THAT HIS MIRACLE WILL BE THEMIRACLE OF JONAH!According to the Book of Jonah, Jonah was ALIVE, when we expected him tobe DEAD; similarly when we expect Jesus to be DEAD, he should be ALIVE!
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Your quotes from the Koran are irrelevant here, since as a Christian I don't recognise the Koran's authority.
Jesus was willing to die - but obviously, He didn't WANT to ! In the Garden, in His agony Jesus sweated blood - a known medical condition, which always leads very swiftly to death. His prayer for help was granted and an angel helped Him - otherwise He would have died in the Garden and not lived to be crucified. No wonder Jesus died after only three hours on the cross - only by a direct miracle had He survived the previous night.
Pilate wished to spare Jesus - but the Jewish leaders, aided by the mob, bullied (and threatened) him into ordering Jesus to be crucified. Pilate's wife said Jesus should (not would) be spared.
The stone was placed over Jesus' tomb at the insistence of the Jewish leaders (who feared the news of a possible resurrection) - and was rolled away only by an angel. The blood and water that flowed from Jesus' side are found together in some corpses and issue forth from such corpses if they are pierced - in this case, as a fount of Divine Mercy for all human beings of all times.
The shroud of Turin is controversial from every point of view. The Church doesn't recognise its authority or even that it is Jesus' shroud.
Points 18 onwards are irrelevant - since Christians believe that Jesus was ALIVE after His Resurrection !
You and the rest of the Muslim world have yet to produce proof - or even discernible evidence - that Jesus didn't die on the cross.
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There is NO story of a Roman Emperor being crucified (the ultimate disgrace for a Roman), let alone of a crucified Emperor - or any other victim of crucifixion - rising from the dead on the third day.
The gospels of Matthew and Mark were probably written in Aramaic. The fact there are no surviving Aramaic manuscripts (or similarly old Greek manuscripts) is irrelevant - the early Christians were a hated and persecuted minority.
Luke spoke Greek as his first language, thus wrote in Greek. The disciples of St John were Greek - hence his gospel is in Greek.
Matthew was a Levite and tax collector - thus literate, as were many of Jesus' followers (many were born Jews and Jews have always been very literate so as to read the Bible).
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But the Koran demands to be BELIEVED.
A belief I refuse to give - having browsed in it and read a fair amount about it and Islam.
For one thing, the Koran contradicts the New Testament; which I DO believe.
It really makes me sad to conversations between believers in the one and only God degenerate like this. It happens on Christian forums as well. Everyone keeps looking at the differences and insists the other party rectify them. I think it would be more helpful to look at what we have in common and build from there. We all agree that Jesus was alive somehow. Whether God made him alive again or kept him alive. It has occurred to me that God has revealed different pieces of the same picture to different groups of people, maybe in the hopes that we can put our pieces together and make a picture of the whole truth that God was trying to reveal to humanity.
sister herb
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I agree. Some sort of discussions usually leads to anywhere but a big arguing.
Grandad
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Twaddle! I was a Christian for over sixty years (and for around forty of these a Catholic). I have no doubt that my understanding of Christianity is at least as good as yours, and possibly better! Moreover, I know (and knew) a number of former Christians - and have read the works of a great many more - who also knew their religion very well.
Have a nice day.
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Grandad
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Your use of the expression ‘human logic’ is flawed. Logic exists independent of humans.
If A implies B and B implies C, then A implies C. This truth is universal.
The law of non-contradiction states that a thing cannot be both A and not-A at one and the same time. This is also a universal truth. Not even God can flout this law. For example, He cannot be both finite and infinite at one and the same time; absolutely immutable and at the same time changeable; omnipotent and at the same time powerless.
C.S. Lewis writes: ‘(God’s) Omnipotence means power to do all that is intrinsically possible, not to do the intrinsically impossible. You may attribute miracles to Him, but not nonsense. This is no limit to His power. If you choose to say "God can give a creature free will and at the same time withhold free will from it," you have not succeeded in saying anything about God.
‘Meaningless combinations of words do not suddenly acquire meaning simply because we prefix to them the two other words "God can."… It is no more possible for God than for the weakest of His creatures to carry out both of two mutually exclusive alternatives; not because His power meets an obstacle, but because nonsense remains nonsense even when we talk it about God.’ (The Problem of Pain).
When Lewis says that God cannot ‘carry out both of two mutually exclusive alternatives’ he is referring to the law of non-contradiction. He is saying that God cannot do what is logically impossible. And in this he is supported by St Thomas Aquinas, who writes that God cannot create a man who is, at the same time, a donkey; for in the statement that a man is a donkey ‘the predicate is altogether incompatible with the subject.’ (cf. Summa Theologica: Part 1; Question 25; Article 3).
Concerning your comments in Post 87:
The works attributed to Mark and Matthew were written in Greek. Both were written decades after the events they describe by men who never met Christ. 'Mark' was written first; followed by 'Matthew'. The author of 'Matthew' drew heavily upon 'Mark' (about 90% of the 'Matthew' Gospel is taken from that book), and amended many details found there.
The anonymous author of 'Luke' also wrote in Greek, and draws upon both 'Mark' and 'Matthew.' He never met Christ either.
The anonymous author of 'John' also wrote in Greek. He pays scant attention to the other Gospel writers, and goes his own way. This author draws heavily on Gnostic notions, and for this reason his work had a hard time getting into the Canon. And would you believe it...this author never met Christ either!
Have a nice day.
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MuhammadHamza1
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Do not worry.
I am going to present some evidence to him.
MuhammadHamza1
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Your comment has quite the sense of irony.
You see.
If you go to any comment section of a Christian Muslim Debate,
You will find Many Christians literally abusing.
So blame us not.
But the Christian present here is straight to point and is morally sound.
So can you find any bad language from me on his part?
All I have done is ask him questions.
And even if he did abuse,I never abuse back.There was a Jew and he was just blaming Islam ignorantly.I humiliated him in such a way,without using abusive words,by debunking his arguments,that he had to delete his comments.
So I am only asking questions and he is answering rationally.
There is no problem in this debate.
But yes.
You should be saying these words to those abusive Christians
MuhammadHamza1
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"Islam demands to be believed."
Not correct.
The two most occuring words in the Quran are
1)-Think
2)-Consider
So what it says is that you think critically and try to prove it wrong or prove that something like this can be from someone other than God.
Inshort,it does not command blind following.
You can see my posts for some explaination of controversial issues of Islam.
But then yes.Islam demands to be believed in but not after you have investigated it.Meaning ensure yourself to the core that it is the word of God by questioning it
But again.
Christianity does not encourage critical thinking of it and yet it also demands to be believed in.
Do you not say that those who do not believe in Christianity shall be eternally damned?
There are numerous verses condemning non Christians to eternal damnation.
So your argument makes no sense when your own book does not qualify.
Not correct.
The two most occuring words in the Quran are
1)-Think
2)-Consider
So what it says is that you think critically and try to prove it wrong or prove that something like this can be from someone other than God.
Inshort,it does not command blind following.
You can see my posts for some explaination of controversial issues of Islam.
But then yes.Islam demands to be believed in but not after you have investigated it.Meaning ensure yourself to the core that it is the word of God by questioning it
But again.
Christianity does not encourage critical thinking of it and yet it also demands to be believed in.
Do you not say that those who do not believe in Christianity shall be eternally damned?
There are numerous verses condemning non Christians to eternal damnation.
So your argument makes no sense when your own book does not qualify.
I think you might want to re-read what I wrote. I wasn't blaming anyone. I was expressing sadness that arguing happens more than dialogue. I'd like to see more dialogue. I wasn't blaming anyone in particular. It seems to happen everywhere, believers or not.
Grandad
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Agreed. What would you like to discuss?
How about all the things Christians and Muslims have in common? We believe in one God, we believe a lot of the same people were sent as prophets, we both have holy books. What else?
sister herb
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Actually, we have a lot of common. From the both books, the Bible and the Quran, we can find similar moral codes like what the ten commandments include. If we both try our best to follow them, our world could to be much more peaceful place to live than what it´s now.
Insaanah
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Many Muslims who were formerly Christian, say it feels like they have returned home, and they feel closer to Jesus now than when they were Christian, as a quote from a former Christian on the forum, who was a seminarian for many years, shows:
"Many of us here (myself included) said essentially the same words you are now saying, during our years following Paulism in the belief we were Christians. During our Christian years we loved and worshiped an idealistic man-made concept. After we came to Islam we learned to truly love Jesus (peace be on him) and not what we were told was Jesus(pbuh).When I was Christian I thought I loved Jesus(pbuh), but after coming to Islam I came to truly Love Jesus(pbuh)."
We also agree that there is evil in the dunya. Christians call it 'the world'. We don't mean the earth that God created by that term. We also have end-times prophecies in common, even if we only both partial information about what will happen. Muslims have the ummah and Christians have the church. Not completely the same concepts, but very similar.
What else do we have in common?
What else do we have in common?