Abu Hanifa and Some Atheists - Debate Thread.

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Re: Abu Hanifa and some Athiests

nothingness is a state of nonexistence..nonexistence can't give rise to existence...
.. beingness can however give rise to existence, as well contrast it with its opposite state so we can distinguish the difference. ..
 
Re: Abu Hanifa and some Athiests

And the nothingness said, "Let there be God," and there was God. Nothingness saw that the God was good.

I agree with the below

nothingness is a state of nonexistence..nonexistence can't give rise to existence...
.. beingness can however give rise to existence, as well contrast it with its opposite state so we can distinguish the difference. ..
 
Re: Abu Hanifa and some Athiests

nothingness is a state of nonexistence..nonexistence can't give rise to existence...
.. beingness can however give rise to existence, as well contrast it with its opposite state so we can distinguish the difference. ..

Respected Skye,

So where did God come from – the nothingness? There was nothing one day and suddenly God appeared? How is that any easier to believe?

Maybe God did come from nothingness and maybe he didn’t but just because you and I don’t know how it all started and cannot (yet) comprehend something coming from nothing doesn’t mean there can only be one possibility – God. That question is just one more question that science will eventually answer.

All that aside, I understand that to follow any religion you must accept all the God stories, put those nagging questions to one side and ‘have faith,’ what I am struggling to come to terms with is how someone as intelligent, well read and free thinking could promote the boat story as anything more than smoke and mirrors.
 
Re: Abu Hanifa and some Athiests

A protein is made up of 500-1000 Amino acids, in sequence. The probability of another being correct is 10(950), thats 10 plus 950 zeros ! Thee simplest cells have 2,000 proteins !! The most important protein is Cytochrome - C which is responsible for oxygen respiration it is extremely complex and cannot have developed by chance.The Turkish evolutionist Ali Demirsoy states, it is "as unlikely as the possibility of a monkey writing the history of humanity on a typewriter without making any mistakes."
Of course there is even more incredible data conscerning DNA and the storage capacity of cells etc. But surely you cannot expect a person with the ability of reasoning to believe in life from naught,even Darwins explanation of evolving species is baing disproved constantly, mutations have and never will result in any new species, Dna is a set of commands that are non negotiable. There is a creator, the abilirty to look at things intensley dictates that it is obvious. Common sense also dictates that the creator is Allah Almighty, due to the line of prophats(pbut) and the revealed scriptures and books. Its simple, Allah created us, if you really look with an open mind, it is obvious. Bismilahir Rahmanir Rahim, Alhamdu lillahi Rabbil Alamin, Ar Rahmanir Rahim
 
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Re: Abu Hanifa and some Athiests

A protein is made up of 500-1000 Amino acids, in sequence. The probability of another being correct is 10(950), thats 10 plus 950 zeros ! Thee simplest cells have 2,000 proteins !! The most important protein is Cytochrome - C which is responsible for oxygen respiration it is extremely complex and cannot have developed by chance.The Turkish evolutionist Ali Demirsoy states, it is "as unlikely as the possibility of a monkey writing the history of humanity on a typewriter without making any mistakes."
Of course there is even more incredible data conscerning DNA and the storage capacity of cells etc. But surely you cannot expect a person with the ability of reasoning to believe in life from naught,even Darwins explanation of evolving species is baing disproved constantly, mutations have and never will result in any new species, Dna is a set of commands that are non negotiable. There is a creator, common sense and the abilirty to look at things intensley dictates that it is obvious. Common sense also dictates that the creator is Allah Almighty, due to the line of prophats(pbut) and the revealed scriptures and books. Its simple, Allah created us, if you really look with an open mind, it is obvious. Bismilahir Rahmanir Rahim, Alhamdu lillahi Rabbil Alamin, Ar Rahmanir Rahim

Although, I love how Islam has a lot of information, I do not think it's right to say Common sense says it's right. I have seen that said in a Christian forum too, and I think both are wrong to say.
 
Re: Abu Hanifa and some Athiests

Although, I love how Islam has a lot of information, I do not think it's right to say Common sense says it's right. I have seen that said in a Christian forum too, and I think both are wrong to say.

I disagree absolutely, I do not mean it in a derogatory sense. What else should I call it, it is impossible for me to see any other route for the existence of creation than saying common sense, pls dont be offended, rather spend the energy contemplating the incredible circumstances in which we are and came to exist. Peace:)
 
Re: Abu Hanifa and some Athiests

I disagree absolutely, I do not mean it in a derogatory sense. What else should I call it, it is impossible for me to see any other route for the existence of creation than saying common sense, pls dont be offended, rather spend the energy contemplating the incredible circumstances in which we are and came to exist. Peace:)

If that's the case, then it's impossible to call it common sense, cause you stated you believe, so it wouldn't be common. I think it'd be better to be called something like "in my opinoin the only sensible", but I am not offended, simply do not like statements like that.
 
Re: Abu Hanifa and some Athiests

If that's the case, then it's impossible to call it common sense, cause you stated you believe, so it wouldn't be common. I think it'd be better to be called something like "in my opinoin the only sensible", but I am not offended, simply do not like statements like that.

I have edited. Tho debating the words I used should not detract from the ineffible evidence produced in the post. Peace to all
 
Re: Abu Hanifa and some Athiests

Its simple, Allah created us, if you really look with an open mind, it is obvious.

So who created Allah, did God just pop up from nowhere, one second there was nothing, then there was God? If you struggle to believe that the complexities of life are simply a developmental process how can you stretch your mind to believe that a God came to be from nothing and came to be with Godly powers! And, if your answer is that because you are merely human you don't have the capcity to understand something (God) coming from nothing then that also applies to the possibility that the first tangible matter came from something intangible i.e. because you find it difficult to accept as a possibility doesn't mean it didn't happen.

You believe that God created the universe because that's what you want to believe, not because it's obvious.
 
Re: Abu Hanifa and some Athiests

So who created Allah, did God just pop up from nowhere, one second there was nothing, then there was God? If you struggle to believe that the complexities of life are simply a developmental process how can you stretch your mind to believe that a God came to be from nothing and came to be with Godly powers! And, if your answer is that because you are merely human you don't have the capcity to understand something (God) coming from nothing then that also applies to the possibility that the first tangible matter came from something intangible i.e. because you find it difficult to accept as a possibility doesn't mean it didn't happen.

You believe that God created the universe because that's what you want to believe, not because it's obvious.

preety simple - there is an explanation as stated before - God is the maker where the chain stops - we cant go forever and say who made that - next who made that because infinity does not exist (otherwise you get to absurdities) - you must have heard of the argumnet and the idea of infinite regress? have you not?
 
Re: Abu Hanifa and some Athiests

You believe that God created the universe because that's what you want to believe, not because it's obvious.

The explanition of God sits well in the human psyche as i stated before - its known as the fitrah.
 
Re: Abu Hanifa and some Athiests

nothingness is a state of nonexistence..nonexistence can't give rise to existence...
.. beingness can however give rise to existence, as well contrast it with its opposite state so we can distinguish the difference. ..

The TTC actually has a very awesome statement to this, here it is:

"Tao produces One,
One produces Two,
Two produces Three,
Three produce Myriad Things"

It goes on, but figured I'd stop, I am typing this while holding open the book, while trying not to bend it at all lol.
 
Re: Abu Hanifa and some Athiests

So who created Allah, did God just pop up from nowhere, one second there was nothing, then there was God? If you struggle to believe that the complexities of life are simply a developmental process how can you stretch your mind to believe that a God came to be from nothing and came to be with Godly powers! And, if your answer is that because you are merely human you don't have the capcity to understand something (God) coming from nothing then that also applies to the possibility that the first tangible matter came from something intangible i.e. because you find it difficult to accept as a possibility doesn't mean it didn't happen.

You believe that God created the universe because that's what you want to believe, not because it's obvious.

haha, you are adamant to keep your head buried arent you, Ok look whats time ? its nothing why does there have to be a begining or end as we percieve it. You choose to the words "one minute nothing , then there was God" not me. Yes I am happy to let it go that I am human and cannot comprehend the nature of out obvious creator. If you cannoy see that then ok, but you do not have a right to try and trip up muslims from thier belief just to justify your lack of ubderstanding our place in existence. We are Muslims and therefore we know the truth, I find nothing difficult when examining the origins of the world, or matter. Allah created me, this is enough. You choose not to believe and I am sorry for you, but its your loss. What answers have you come to regarding the origins of existence, and I ask with a genuine desire to know and nothing more. Peace
 
Re: Abu Hanifa and some Athiests

preety simple - there is an explanation as stated before - God is the maker where the chain stops - we cant go forever and say who made that - next who made that because infinity does not exist (otherwise you get to absurdities) - you must have heard of the argumnet and the idea of infinite regress? have you not?

Infinite regress does appear to lead to absurdities. But it is very debatable which is more absurd:

1. Infinite Regress
2. Spontaneous creation from nothing
3. Magical being who has always existed brought the universe into being with only its thoughts.

Qatada said:
Science does not disprove God, we just understand His creation better through it.

This I agree with in a sense. Science can never prove or disprove God because God is not falsifiable. God is about faith, not evidence. As Thinker has said, people believe in God because they want to, not because there is objective evidence to.
 
Re: Abu Hanifa and some Athiests

2. Spontaneous creation from nothing
3. Magical being who has always existed brought the universe into being with only its thoughts

2 - who said the first maker was a creation?
3 - magical being? nobody said anything about magically being or that the maker brought the universe by its own thoughts?

I would agree that the existence of God is faith/philosophical based question and not a science one. - Science can only take us so far.
 
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dont realy think we are

we should just wait until we die and see what happens.

Eh, I hope their is more then just death. I think their is, but what, I do not know. I hope maybe their is a spirit relm, where I can meet my ancestors, and meet the ones that died in battle and commerate them. I have only one wish, to be remembered. If I had the assurance that I'd be remembered internationally before I die, I'd die a very happy man. I think I'll die happy either way, if I die in war then at least I was doing something, and if I die old, at least I can say I did my best.
 
Eh, I hope their is more then just death. I think their is, but what, I do not know. I hope maybe their is a spirit relm, where I can meet my ancestors, and meet the ones that died in battle and commerate them. I have only one wish, to be remembered. If I had the assurance that I'd be remembered internationally before I die, I'd die a very happy man. I think I'll die happy either way, if I die in war then at least I was doing something, and if I die old, at least I can say I did my best.

what about accountablity for your actions after you die?
 

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